Wow, Sonic and the Secret Rings really sucks...

[enix2093]

Desert Bus

[kool kitty89]

Bought it new for something like 10 euro, sold it just 2 days later. I tried really hard, but this was just a really shitty experience. Awful music, awful controls, horrible level design. I don't even want to try black knight or unleashed if this one was supposed to be the best of all three.

Unleashed should be the best of those three, and apparently the SD versions (PS2/Wii) are preferable, though the HD versions are OK too. (pimpuigi discribed the SD versions as sequels to the HD versions gameplay/level wise -story is the same I think, but levels and gameplay are different)

Unleashed is WAY better than Secret Rings, and if you hate "sonic's freinds" then that's an added bonus as there's relatively little mention, the cutscenses are tolerable (and the cinematic ones are pretty awesome), Sonic is the only playable character and the daytime levels are closest to 3D incarnations of the original genesis/SMS games ever in any Sonic Team game I think. (I personally prefer SA1/2's gameplay more, and that's not taking night levels into account -which are OK IMO)

I really like a good deal of the Adventure games' soundtracks, especially SA1. They lose the magic of classic Sonic games, but they work perfectly for the games they're in. Also, about lyrics being removed, I have a SA2 demo disc that came with a copy of Phantasy Star Online that just has the first level, mostly complete, but the "Escape from the City" song has no lyrics! It's kind of strange playing the level without the lyrics. That first level is so memorable, and iconic to SA2.

Oh, I agree, the music in those games is fine, even some of the more complained about stuff (like pumpkin hill) I can tolerate as well, and soem of the rest is really catchy. Specifically, I was listening to the instrumentals of some of the tracks (especially SA2) and was thinking they might sound better alone, while others sound off without the vocals. (the one Elusive posted above bing a key example, albiet that's from SA1 not SA2, which is what I was thinking about specifically)

Black Knight was even worse

I have yet to confirm this personally, I'd take Unleashed's Night levels over Secret Rings, and Shadow The Hedgehog and Heroes over that. (not sure which of the latter 2 I prefer) Then again, a rediculous story in Black Knight might kill it, and as I alredy know it still lacks GC controlls (unlike Unleashed, though at least it's with nunchuck), that's not promising. I'm still tempted to see if it's as bad as they say, and IGN tends to not be reliable for soem things. (the GC ports of SA1/2 make no sense)

, but that Unleashed was actually a decent game (bar Werehog levels of course, though I think it's a little exaggerated how bad those stages are).

The day levels are fun, but tedious if you want to get top rankings unless you're a natural for the gameplay, night is OK, but a bit boring at times, it doesn't feel "sonic" though, but I don't find it horrible. (if anything the control, and perspective at some points are most frustrating; the most fun is beating up waves of enemies)

I played it, and it's definitely a much, much easier experience. The controls are nice (I played it on the Wii with Wiimote and Nunchuk, and I was fine),

Have you tried the GC controls, they made all the difference for me, wii is tolerable, but GC makes it more fun. (I'd say slightly more significant than with SSBB)

The game plays nice enough, but it's very on-rails and you feel very compelled to move as fast as possible, non-stop (though it doesn't FORCE you forward like Secret Rings, you actually control Sonic with the analog stick). I miss the open levels with multiple paths and secret enticements for exploration, and the platforming in general (not entirely sure if Unleashed really falls into the platformer genre in the classic sense).

I agree, but I think that's what some of the fans of Unleashed liked about it, it's very linear (in the Day), more like the old games. (though those did have multiple paths as well, especially 3&K) I think one thing about the HD version is you don't start off fully powered up, but have to gradually upgrade to full capabilities and speed, one other thing is that instead of the simple map and speech bubbles, you have to physically wander around and talk to people in town.

That's my two cents on Unleashed. I'd say rent it first though (if you can), just to be sure you'll enjoy its gameplay.

I'm not sure if I like Heroes better, I haven't played that in several years. I think I like unleashed a bit more than Shadow the Hedgehog (a different game though as there was emphesis on the 3rd person shooter element, which I actually liked in itsself). I've played Shadow more though, I found it easier to get into for some reason. (maybe because I was a few years younger and my mindset was a bit different, or perhaps because it controls and plays more like the SA games)
SA1 and 2 are my favoirte 3D sonic games, and some of my favorite 3D platformers in general. I think I like SA2 more as I've said, more pick-up and play and easier to get into, the way the multiple characters tie together in a linear fassion (well, parallel, witht eh dark/light stories) rather than having to play the game through several times (more tedious, but fun, for adventure fans at least -seems like 17days would probably dislike SA1 by comparison). IDK, I guess SA2 is more fun to replay than SA1, SA1 is really time consuming to play all the way through. (a freind I recently lent it to got through with Sonic and stopped there)

Horrible game. I'd rather play Shadow the Hedgehog than this one.

That "Seven Rings in Hand" annoyed the piss out of me and I only played like 4 stages before I returned this garbage game. There was nothing good about this game except maybe that homing strike thing. It felt like a crappy racing game; that Yaris game on 360 was more entertaining.

I agree on both, although prefering Shadow the Hedgehog might be less of an insult coming from me given that (as above) I liked Shadow The Hedgehog reasonably well. (I probably would have never played to the final levels alone, but my brother played through soem as well and I picked up later on along with him)

Yeah, I hate this game, too. Plays like an FMV game while trying to drive a truck that stalls every five seconds.

Hmm, depends what FMV you mean, I'd definitely prefer Sewer Shark, a rather rudimentary (crosshairs based) rail shooter, and campy but in an old B movie sort of way, so in that case I'd definitely agree. (too bad the music is poor on the Sega CD, GEMS... I actually kind of get into the medocre music after a while though, it's weird)

[Phexar]

Yeah, I really hated the control system on this, along with 'Seven Rings in Hand', I didn't play it past the first few stages because I just hated the controls that much; they were just so terrible and I'd rather have Shadow the Hedgehog's slippery controls if I had to pick from the two. Though I might try to play more through it later and try to level up the controls () to a more acceptable standard at some point though and evaluate it again.

I've yet to try Black Knight, but at least it's got a theme song more pleasing to my ears(don't know if it plays through the menu's though):

[kool kitty89]

Yeah, I really hated the control system on this, along with 'Seven Rings in Hand', I didn't play it past the first few stages because I just hated the controls that much; they were just so terrible and I'd rather have Shadow the Hedgehog's slippery controls if I had to pick from the two. Though I might try to play more through it later and try to level up the controls () to a more acceptable standard at some point though and evaluate it again.

I don't find the control in Shadow all that slipper personally, the most annoying part is the overuse of the word "damn" IMO.

I've yet to try Black Knight, but at least it's got a theme song more pleasing to my ears(don't know if it plays through the menu's though):

The music was something IGN mentioned as a high point for the game I think. (that and the graphics) I've yet to play it, but I have a feeling I'll like it more than most have. (again, if it plays withing 90% of Heroes or Shadoe, it's at least 2x as good as Secret Rings in terms of control)

[Elusive]

I've yet to try Black Knight, but at least it's got a theme song more pleasing to my ears(don't know if it plays through the menu's though):

Huh. I'm not really a fan of this theme; Johnny Gioeli's 'whooaaa whoaaa whoaaaa' and the main guitar riff - dit dit dit deeee, dit dit dit deee, dit dit dit dit - don't really engage my 'this is cool' circuits.

The ending theme, though - Live Life - with the same riff on the violin section, is brilliant. I like how Sonic Team kept the character themes from Sonic Adventure for the blacksmith, Gawain, and Lancelot too.

[PimpUigi]

Wow you're not kidding.

Secret Rings is terrible.
One of the worst 3D Sonic games ever.

Takes forever to gain speed, you lose it in an instant, takes years to level up your character (and you level up extremely slowly once you've finished all the levels: which I did) and on top of all that, the music sucks.

"Let The SPIRIT!!!!"

"Who's the rocket face? You're the rocket face? Everybody's the rocket face?! And no one can touch this!"

"Dino's, all over, it's a jungle, Wiki WOW!!!!"

"No sound and it's made of Blue, love is made with, a broken fetish"

Sad times for Sonic...'bout as good as Black Knight though.
Wii is just sad for Sonic.

At least it got an awesome version of Sonic Unleashed.
Though it's not enough to make me buy a Wii...

[TmEE]

I had a chance to play this game and I got fed up with it quite fast

[kool kitty89]

At least it got an awesome version of Sonic Unleashed.
Though it's not enough to make me buy a Wii...

Yeah, but the PS2 version is pretty much identical except the graphics are a bit sharper on Wii (rather liek ghostbusters) and the controls. (but very close with GC pad thank god -gostbusters had no GC control, but used the wii controls well enough not to matter that much -like Metroid Prime III or Twilight Princess -all of which would still have been nice with optional GC control)

I had a chance to play this game and I got fed up with it quite fast

Have you played Black Knight? I haven't, but it seems like it might be better overall (in spite of reviews), more conventional controls, reasonable music, pretty sharp graphics and no more complaints about camera than most 3D sonic games (the GC ports of SA1/2 seem to get hammered with this, though I find both better for camer than SM64).

The big complaints are about the speed (too slow for a sonic game apparently -though if it's no worse than the werehog levels, I'd say that's still a huge improvement over Secret Rings) and the story/characters (apparently they all go by names of king arthur's court ... for the entire game). Still probably towards the bottom of the 3D sonic titles, if not above Secret Rings, at least STH2006. (probably below Heroes and maybe Shadow the Hedgehog -I like the latter much more than most though)

[sasuke]

Hmm, depends what FMV you mean, I'd definitely prefer Sewer Shark, a rather rudimentary (crosshairs based) rail shooter, and campy but in an old B movie sort of way, so in that case I'd definitely agree. (too bad the music is poor on the Sega CD, GEMS... I actually kind of get into the medocre music after a while though, it's weird)

I don't mind Sewer Shark, either, but I mostly mean that Secret Rings is so linear and automated it feels like a bad Dragon's Lair like FMV game.

And Sewer Shark uses GEMS??? The Z80 can't access the 68k area in Sega CD mode (except maybe the BIOS which isn't of much use), so I assumed it used a modified sound engine.

[PimpUigi]

Yeah, but the PS2 version is pretty much identical

But the PS2 version can't do widescreen.
Otherwise I'd get the PS2 version since I have no Wii.

It's fucked up IMHO.
The HD version of Sonic Unleashed is clipped widescreen.
The SD version of Sonic Unleashed on the Wii is true widescreen.

Fail.
If it were reversed, that'd be perfect.

[j_factor]

But the PS2 version can't do widescreen.
Otherwise I'd get the PS2 version since I have no Wii.

It's fucked up IMHO.
The HD version of Sonic Unleashed is clipped widescreen.
The SD version of Sonic Unleashed on the Wii is true widescreen.

Fail.
If it were reversed, that'd be perfect.

I'm pretty sure no Wii game is "true widescreen". The Wii uses anamorphic (squeezed) widescreen like DVDs. "True widescreen" at SDTV/EDTV resolution is pretty unheard-of in general. I'm pretty sure the Wii is only capable of 480i, 480p, and 576i (PAL). No PAL+ even.

[PimpUigi]

It squeezes it like Sega Saturn's Nights gets squeezed.

You have to put your widescreen TV in 4:3 horizontal stretch mode, and then it's true widescreen.

True widescreen just = extra left and right viewing area.

This is what Sonic Unleashed for the Wii has.

Clipped widescreen is when they clip the top and bottom of the 4:3 image to achieve the widescreen effect.

This is what Sonic Unleashed 360/PS3 does.
So the best way to play Sonic Unleashed on 360/PS3 is 480p since you can see more of the screen.

[kool kitty89]

And Sewer Shark uses GEMS??? The Z80 can't access the 68k area in Sega CD mode (except maybe the BIOS which isn't of much use), so I assumed it used a modified sound engine.

Oh... I just assumed it did, I didn't know about the Z80 conflict with GEMS in sega CD mode. It could just be another crappy sound engine, I assumed it was GEMS as that was the standard, generic engine included with US dev kits. (that and the way it sounds)

I'm pretty sure no Wii game is "true widescreen". The Wii uses anamorphic (squeezed) widescreen like DVDs. "True widescreen" at SDTV/EDTV resolution is pretty unheard-of in general. I'm pretty sure the Wii is only capable of 480i, 480p, and 576i (PAL). No PAL+ even.

What woud you call "true widescreen" then? Yes, it's anamorphic, which is th eonly way to get good widescreen in Standard Def (otherwise you just get lower resolution and letterboxing, ie fewer lines being used -which most/all DVD players offer for output on older TVs). Of course, SD rarely uses square pixels anyway (and that varies even more with varying calibration on overscan tv to tv), but I don't think that's what you meant. Switching to compressed 16:9 makes th escanlines much tighter though, much nicer to look at on larger sets.

With 480p, there can be genuine square pixel (or as close as possible) widescreen with 852x480p as well as full 60 Hz framerate. I don't know if the Wii supports that though, or just renders in the same resolution as in standard definition mode. I'm also not sure if it supports 576p. (which seems to be uncommon in general, but I can't speak from personal experience as I don't live in a PAL region)


That reminds me: pimpuigi, for the HD versions, does "widescreen" mode actually increase the resolution (ie 720p would be 1280x720 opposed to 960x720), or does it just crop the screen to have letterboxing? (which you suould be able to elliminate by using the zoom option of the TV)
If the latter, at least you're getting a higher horizontal resolution, if reduced visible screen area.

[j_factor]

What woud you call "true widescreen" then? Yes, it's anamorphic, which is th eonly way to get good widescreen in Standard Def (otherwise you just get lower resolution and letterboxing, ie fewer lines being used -which most/all DVD players offer for output on older TVs). Of course, SD rarely uses square pixels anyway (and that varies even more with varying calibration on overscan tv to tv), but I don't think that's what you meant. Switching to compressed 16:9 makes th escanlines much tighter though, much nicer to look at on larger sets.

"True widescreen" would have a correspondingly higher horizontal resolution. The Wii's widescreen is just a "squeezed" image that is intended to be stretched. But it's not a widescreen resolution. It wouldn't be standard definition anymore, it would be EDTV I guess.

With 480p, there can be genuine square pixel (or as close as possible) widescreen with 852x480p as well as full 60 Hz framerate. I don't know if the Wii supports that though, or just renders in the same resolution as in standard definition mode. I'm also not sure if it supports 576p. (which seems to be uncommon in general, but I can't speak from personal experience as I don't live in a PAL region)

I'm pretty sure it supports neither of those. In fact I'm pretty sure it doesn't even support 720x480, only 640x480. The fact that the system has nothing other than component cables for progressive scan, and that its video hardware is such that not all games support progressive, would go along with that.

[Phexar]

Though I might try to play more through it later and try to level up the controls () to a more acceptable standard at some point though and evaluate it again.

I played through more of it just then. No. Just... no. >_< My gawd, those controls are still terrible even with more upgrades added on. It just feels frustrating and dull to me and I didn't have any fun playing it.