mega man 8: saturn vs playstation

[chrisbid]

the sony anti 2D scorched earth policy really didnt start until after final fantasy vii was relaesed in late 1997. madden 98 was still in 2d for example

[OldSchool]

17days is right: Mega Man 8 lame, lame, lame. It is forgettable in every sense of the word.

Hmmm... so #8 and #7 are 'lame'?

I recently picked up Megaman X Collection and the Anniversary was bundled with it (which I was happy about seeing as it came with #7 and #8 which I completely forgot about)...

I have the Gamecube ports... CAN'T believe Nintendo switched the Jump and Shoot buttons on the Anniversary edition... wtf were they thinking? (it's gonna be weird getting used to that in order to play #s7/8... 1-6 will be played on my NES)

[gamegenie]

the sony anti 2D scorched earth policy really didnt start until after final fantasy vii was relaesed in late 1997. madden 98 was still in 2d for example

I saw the GameDay football series heavily promoted on PSX than Madden.

[chrisbid]

I saw the GameDay football series heavily promoted on PSX than Madden.

gameday was heavily promoted (to some success), but sony allowed ea to release madden 98 as a 2D game at full 49.99 retail price

[gamegenie]

gameday was heavily promoted (to some success), but sony allowed ea to release madden 98 as a 2D game at full 49.99 retail price

madden 98 for PSX certainly doesn't look 2D to me, are you sure.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=symH0HQsECQ

[j_factor]

The arena was 3D, but it was still sprite-based. All EA sports games were sprite-based until the '99 year, which is when they basically went PSX only.

[doomguy]

Not true Fifa 98 was fully 3D and was release for the saturn aswell.

[retrospiel]

It seems to me that the original source stating that Megaman 8 was originally for the Saturn is a Wikipedia article. I remember reading something along the lines of "Mega Man 8 was originally intended to only be for the Sega Saturn, but Sony allegedly "demanded" the game, fearing it would give an advantage to its then-rival" back in 2005 on the Wikipedia page.

Any website that mentions the Saturn being the original platform either contains someone's comment saying stuff like "Sony didn't demand Mega Man 8 on the PlayStation. They begged for it" or it is an article either quoting the Wikipedia page or paraphrasing it.

What's my point? Well, where is the original source for this claim? All I see on Wikipedia is an interview with a journalist, Chris Bieniek. on g4TV.

If you watch the interview "http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_WL_16oJz1U" all that he said was SONY demanded a book to make their version stand out. There is nothing about SONY trying to prevent its release because it is 2D or SONY pushing to have it produced for their system.

Megaman 8 released on the same day (for both platforms) in the US, and the PSX version released a month earlier in Japan.

I think that what really happened is that SCEA demanded the book to counter the superior Saturn version.

The source of confusion may be because G4 said "They decide to release Megaman 8, and update for the classic series, for the Sega Saturn. Fearing the competition, SONY also agrees to release the game." Why did G4 word it like this? Because they were idiots. They said incorrect information all the time on that show.

Also, there is no doubt that the Saturn version is superior. This is usually an indicator of the lead the platform.

And who knows... maybe whoever posted that wikipedia article was correct. Does anyone have a credible source confirming this "SONY demanded it story"? I'd love to read it.

Sorry for the long rant, I just want to see whether or not this Wikipedia article is fact, or if it is just some fanboy's delusion in published form.

Another example is the Rockman X4 article. It says...

"Originally, the American release of the PlayStation version was put on hold after Sony Computer Entertainment America denied Capcom permission to release it in the United States[1], allegedly due to it being a 2D video game; due to early American policies at the time, the American division of Sony Computer Entertainment only wanted 3D games for their system. Apparently, other Capcom titles that had fallen victim to this policy included Mega Man 8, Mega Man Battle & Chase, and the PlayStation version of Mega Man X3 (both the last two were eventually included in the Mega Man X Collection released for PlayStation 2 and Nintendo GameCube). Capcom, who was behind the PlayStation's first million-selling game (Resident Evil) allegedly threatened to not release the highly-anticipated Resident Evil 2 after being denied permission to release their 2D games in the US"

But the original source http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...8881635291735# is just some journalist saying "Capcom should threaten not to release Resident Evil 2".

I love it when some journalist's mental diarrhea turns into The Ultimate Truth™

[Thenewguy]

I don't know how the image of Sony having wanted "absolutely no 2D games" entered the common imagination, but I think it's a misconception.

Sony outright refused Worms based on it being 2D until the Saturn version sold well, Sony US refused both Mickey's Wild Adventure and Earthworm Jim 2 based on them being 2D, they also held back Megaman X4 (this is widely reported in the press)

Those game's are all definite's that I've actually read about, another game which I'd guess probably suffered the same fate was Rapid Reload/Gunners Heaven, there's also rumours that the policy affected Metal Slug and Donpachi too but I don't know how true that is.

[Nobi]

The arena was 3D, but it was still sprite-based. All EA sports games were sprite-based until the '99 year, which is when they basically went PSX only.

i guess thats why i love madden 97/98 so much, they are some of the best!, its like they stayed with the sega genesis style but injected super steroids into the graphics and presentation(gotta love those fmv game intros) much like they do the real players!!!!!

[j_factor]

Not true Fifa 98 was fully 3D and was release for the saturn aswell.

I stand corrected. I'm American, FIFA doesn't count.

Sony outright refused Worms based on it being 2D until the Saturn version sold well, Sony US refused both Mickey's Wild Adventure and Earthworm Jim 2 based on them being 2D, they also held back Megaman X4 (this is widely reported in the press)

Those game's are all definite's that I've actually read about, another game which I'd guess probably suffered the same fate was Rapid Reload/Gunners Heaven, there's also rumours that the policy affected Metal Slug and Donpachi too but I don't know how true that is.

I find your assertion that the Saturn version of Worms "sold well" to be hard to believe. Not many Saturn games can be said to have "sold well" in North America (and few of them third-party), and as an American Saturn owner at the time, I don't recall Worms being one of them. I'm sure it did okay by Saturn standards, on the virtue of it being a somewhat well-known PC game, but it didn't exactly burn up the charts, and the game in general wasn't as popular here as it was in Europe (hence the lack of US Genesis and SNES releases). Also if Moby Games is correct, there was only a month or less between the releases, which I don't think is enough time to refuse, watch the other version release, wait for sales numbers, then say "ok" and start producing copies. I mean, maybe, but that's pretty tight.

Mickey Mania was a Sony-published game, so they did not "refuse" it, they simply decided not to publish the Playstation version in the US. It was a port of a game that was a little old, and they probably concluded that there was less of a market for that sort of game (being a 2d platformer) here than in Europe. Note that they also declined to release it for European Mega CD -- Sega CD was more popular here than there. This is a calculation, not a conspiracy; an individual publishing decision, not part of some macro-level effort.

Not sure about Earthworm Jim 2, but I doubt it was refused for being 2D. The same publisher released Skeleton Warriors shortly after with no issue. Perhaps it was more that Earthworm Jim 2 was a port of a 16-bit game with little enhancement, or maybe Playmates felt it wouldn't have sold.

Rapid Reload was another Sony-published game, so again, that's something else. Considering it's relatively short, has nothing in the way of special features or extra modes, and looks like a Genesis game, their decision not to release it is perfectly understandable. It's silly and simplistic to assume that it didn't come out here just because it was 2d, in light of those other aspects. And declining to release their own games in a particular territory is not the same as denying third-party releases. Anyway it's not as though SCEA completely shied away from publishing 2d games -- Adventures of Lomax, Beyond the Beyond, and Samurai Shodown III come to mind.

With Metal Slug, SCEA had signed an agreement with SNK to be the exclusive American publisher of SNK's non-Neo Geo console games, which is also why none of their Saturn games were released here. This agreement was in effect for a few years but only resulted in two (US) PSX releases, Samurai Shodown III and King of Fighters '95. Dick move by Sony, but not indicative of an anti-2D policy (otherwise they wouldn't have arranged the agreement in the first place). Metal Slug may not have made the cut because of its frequent loading times, or it was simply the victim of SCEA deciding not to do any more SNK games.

As for DonPachi, shmups had fallen out of favor in the US by then, and compared to many others, DonPachi is particularly niche. Also shitloads of Atlus games from that time period did not get released outside Japan. Blame Atlus USA. A pretty significant number of shmups did get US PSX releases. RayStorm was Working Designs' first PSX release, and I can only assume they had no trouble bringing it out (Vic Ireland certainly would've been vocal about it if they did).

The bottom line, for me, is that the US Playstation had quite a good number of 2D releases. If Sony was so anti-2D, there would have been none, or at least much fewer.

[chrisbid]

The bottom line, for me, is that the US Playstation had quite a good number of 2D releases. If Sony was so anti-2D, there would have been none, or at least much fewer.

sony was pretty much anti 2D after the initial launch window. they didnt outright ban the games for a few years, but as the years went by they tightened the screws more and more.

eventually, 2D games would not be allowed to be released at full price. they could be released as a budget title, as a compilation, or as a special edition.

metal slug x, strikers 1945, and castlevania chronicles were all released at the $20 price point. good deals at the time for fans of those games, but thin profit margins kept publishers from releasing more 2D games.

[MrMatthews]

Hmmm... so #8 and #7 are 'lame'?

Well, I made no mention of 7, but yes. Both 7 and 8 are lame. Which one is more-so? You decide!

I have the Gamecube ports... CAN'T believe Nintendo switched the Jump and Shoot buttons on the Anniversary edition... wtf were they thinking? (it's gonna be weird getting used to that in order to play #s7/8... 1-6 will be played on my NES)

Thank you! I burned through #3 on the Anniversary Collection a few weeks back, and I thought I was going insane. To be fair, Nintendo probably had nothing to do with it - you can thank Capcom for messing around with the controls. What really burned me up is that they don't give you the option of changing them at all.

[gamegenie]

The arena was 3D, but it was still sprite-based. All EA sports games were sprite-based until the '99 year, which is when they basically went PSX only.

yeah but I say it's still an obvious 3D looking football game compared to the SNES Madden 98 which had no 3D at all.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6TOcAprnzcM


now compare those two games to 1993 Joe Montana NFL on Sega CD

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RDvEwSAhzD0

and SEGA did market this game as 3D.

[Thenewguy]

I find your assertion that the Saturn version of Worms "sold well" to be hard to believe. Not many Saturn games can be said to have "sold well" in North America (and few of them third-party), and as an American Saturn owner at the time, I don't recall Worms being one of them. I'm sure it did okay by Saturn standards, on the virtue of it being a somewhat well-known PC game, but it didn't exactly burn up the charts, and the game in general wasn't as popular here as it was in Europe (hence the lack of US Genesis and SNES releases).

It sold extremely well on multiple system's before the 32-bit versions even came out, the Saturn version followed suit and went straight into the UK charts on release, seeing as the PS1 version had long been finished and had only been awaiting the finalisation of permission from Sony for release I don't see it as being particularly shocking that they could get it out within a month (if Mobygames is accurate)

Mickey Mania was a Sony-published game

This means nothing, at the end of the day each territory decides which games are released, Sony published the 16-bit versions of Mickey Mania and when it came to the PS1 version each territory decides whether they specifically want the game, Sony Europe did, Sony America did not, Sony America had nothing to do with Mickey Mania at all.

Not sure about Earthworm Jim 2, but I doubt it was refused for being 2D. The same publisher released Skeleton Warriors shortly after with no issue. Perhaps it was more that Earthworm Jim 2 was a port of a 16-bit game with little enhancement, or maybe Playmates felt it wouldn't have sold.

You're making supposition, I'm talking about information and interviews I've actually read in magazines from the time.

Rapid Reload was another Sony-published game, so again, that's something else. Considering it's relatively short, has nothing in the way of special features or extra modes, and looks like a Genesis game, their decision not to release it is perfectly understandable.

You just sound like you're making up excuses now, there were tons and tons of really awful 3D games on PS1, where was the fair and unbiased Sony quality control that you've been talking about?!!? Rapid Reload doesn't make the cut because its "relatively short" but games which have pretty much no redeeming features like Rascal do?!

It's silly and simplistic to assume that it didn't come out here just because it was 2d, in light of those other aspects. And declining to release their own games in a particular territory is not the same as denying third-party releases. Anyway it's not as though SCEA completely shied away from publishing 2d games -- Adventures of Lomax, Beyond the Beyond, and Samurai Shodown III come to mind.

Neither Beyond the Beyond, nor Samurai Shodown 3 managed to get released in Europe though so those games hardly got through easy.

With Metal Slug, SCEA had signed an agreement with SNK to be the exclusive American publisher of SNK's non-Neo Geo console games, which is also why none of their Saturn games were released here.

Fair enough

As for DonPachi, shmups had fallen out of favor in the US by then, and compared to many others, DonPachi is particularly niche. Also shitloads of Atlus games from that time period did not get released outside Japan.

No, if it was just the factor of being a shmup I wouldn't have mentioned it, the rumour I heard at the time was that Donpachi actually had a US publisher set up already and was ready to be released.

The bottom line, for me, is that the US Playstation had quite a good number of 2D releases. If Sony was so anti-2D, there would have been none, or at least much fewer.

The bottom line for me is that a hell of a lot of good 2D games were refused release on PS1, whilst a whole mass of very poor 3D games had no trouble getting released at all.