Game Bargain of the Century

[Elusive]

This thread has a strange premise. 'Save money by buying this console and pirating its games'.

Well, it's really more of a dig at how lame (in my opinion) it is that the "mighty" XBOX and XBOX 360 flagship shooter can't handle what the N64 did with Perfect Dark (quite well I might add).

First off, ODST's Firefight mode is a botmatch. Sorry.

Second, bots are a remnant of an age without the Internet, and where the absolute limitation for multiplayer was four people squinting at a single screen. Fire off more than a few rounds, though, and you'd get a better frame rate by painting images onto bread and toasting them. And possibly at a better resolution than the N64 *rimshot*

but seriously, as Knuckle Duster mentioned, if you're playing against bots you're (uuuurgh here it comes) playing it wrong (aaargh!): bots are no substitute for human beings. You can increase their weapon damage, you can give them sight beyond sight, you can turn them into bullet sponges, but they won't play like people.

There's a MGS Raiden joke in here somewhere, but I'm sounding goony enough by far already. Bottom line is, why would I want to play against AI when I can connect to Xbox Live and immediately jump into a 16-player deathmatch in Halo 3? For games where the online multiplayer has flatlined (uhh, Call of Suity Quantum of Solace) there's always the local multiplayer/System Link option.

[Guntz]

You know, there ARE some of us here that don't have a gaming internet connection. I'm on satellite internet and it's ping is usually in the quadruple numbers (1000 - 3000+). This is not good enough to play even the DS online. So I'm stuck playing FPS games with bots. Personally I don't really care if I'm playing against humans or bots, I still get to shoot stuff and have fun. TimeSplitters has been doing lots of things most popular FPS series these have only started doing, for years. That right there puts TimeSplitters above Gaylo, Call of Duty and any of those other overrated FPS games currently being praised up and down by basement dwellers.

But you know what tops the retard cake in this regard? Crytek UK (previously known as Free Radical) doesn't think another TimeSplitters game would be successful, even though TS2 and Future Perfect sold very, very well. Madness I say. Some companies do the stupidest things... -_-;

[OldSchool]

well, right off the bat you obviously don't have taste for the best games on the system. Almost everything was pick-up-and-play arcade style stuff, and that's what I like. I like the Dreamcast because it has several games that were cross-platform across the PSX, N64, and DC and the DC smokes the rest of them. Tony Hawk 2 is the best Tony Hawk, and the DC has the best version. The controller isn't an issue for me because I have a Total Control Plus and can just use my Logitech Precision Wireless PS2 controller. If not that, the Madcatz Dream Pad is badass and very comfortable.

Regardless, my emphasis was how cheap it was to amass a large library of fun games since it's insanely easy to bootleg games on the system. If you refuse to ever play a burned game, then this whole thread is meaningless to you. Try putting a CD-R in your GC and booting it up...yeah. Furthermore, GC games seem to maintain their value more than other games, making even legitimate buyers pay several times as much for the same game on the GC versus the DC.

I never liked anything about the Gaycube (yes, I'm calling it that, it fucking blows) so I would still rather play the "inferior" Dreamcast version of the games. The XBOX never impressed me either as I can't think of any exclusive that really blew me away nor did I prefer the XBOX version of a cross platform game because the control always felt sloppy somehow (NFS: Hot Pursuit 2 on XBOX vs. PS2 was downright shitty to control on XBOX and great on PS2). On the other hand, I find many DC games have the control down to a science.

The Dreamcast was like a Wii that didn't suck, not a nerdy processor benchmark machine with 1 popular game (Halo+XBOX) or an overly kiddy machine with nothing but outdated ports (Gamecube). I mean, the DC was dead by the time all the other systems were really up and running, so how can you compare graphics from a PS2/GC/XBOX game from 2005 to a DC game from 5 years earlier? And what about the price? DC was $200 on launch day, even then it was a huge bargain!

Sometimes the ports weren't even better. I have Soldier of Fortune Gold for PS2 and the control is awful, but regular Soldier of Fortune on DC played with the same controller thanks to Total Control Plus controls infinitely better. I also have Ferrari F355 Challenge for PS2 and it's virtually unplayable even with the Logitech steering wheel (the force feedback one). I rock at the arcade version, but the PS2 version falls flat. On the other hand, I've heard the DC version is fantastic to play (though I haven't played it since every .cdi I find either crashes discjuggler or doesn't work after burning, if someone can help me out with that via PM, I'd appreciate it). Also, Sonic Adventure beats the pants off of later Sonic games released on GC/XBOX/PS2. Sonic Heroes can DIAF.

DC is badass when looked at from a retro perspective.

Lol... this is why games that are meant for PC like Unreal/etc are best on PC.

And the Tony Hawk games look amazing on the PC with updated Textures, etxtra features in some cases, and the ability to force AA and V-Sync = the games looking 10x better.

[OldSchool]

The Xbox and Gamecube are miles ahead of the PlayStation controller. Geez is that controller awful. Uncomfortable, stupid ass face buttons, the left stick is in the wrong place, trying to use all four triggers at once is impossible and so much more. The GameCube controller may be a bit of a mess, at least it still heeds to smart and sensible controller standards (ABC XYZ). As for the Xbox, using the Duke is an unfair comparison ESPECIALLY since NOBODY uses the Model 1 Saturn controller to benchmark the system. Just like the Model 2 Saturn pad, the Xbox S controller is the system's main controller. There's no excuse for how bad the PS controller is. It's the evil twin of SNES that has been bastardized into modern controller standards.

... Oh yeah, Dreamcast is sorta in between. The lack of a second stick really limits the controller's flexibility, but again at least the left stick is in the right place and it has ABXY for face buttons.

That controller rocks! It does a very good job for 3rd Person gaming, Skating, and Car Racing!


Playing FPSs with any controller is retarded... M & KB run circles around the controller.


The SNES controller is fantastic! wow

[Puffy2k316]

why do people overrate soul calibur so much it's literally not one of the top ten best fighting games on the dreamcast

[Knuckle Duster]

The GameCube controller may be a bit of a mess, at least it still heeds to smart and sensible controller standards (ABC XYZ).

C stick nub sucks and has no grip.
Z button is stiff and out of the way.
The shoulder buttons have massive saddle lips.
The D-pad is horrendously bad, stiff, and tiny.
The layout of the face buttons is ridiculous.
The PS2/Xbox face buttons are pressure sensitive analog. GC is digital.
The GC has no weight to it.

I don't even know why you brought the PS2 controller into the discussion. It's superior to the cube's, and a brand choice when it comes to the Xbox S.

As for the Xbox, using the Duke is an unfair comparison ESPECIALLY since NOBODY uses the Model 1 Saturn controller to benchmark the system. Just like the Model 2 Saturn pad, the Xbox S controller is the system's main controller.

What's unfair about it?

I made the comparison because he was saying the DC hardware was shit, and the controller was uncomfortable, both compared to the Xbox & GC. Now unless you're looking to wedge his argument further by adding even more time to the comparison, the duke controller is what you would look at, considering it was the launch controller.

"Dreamcast kind of sucks. The games are awful, they were ported to consoles 3 years later with better controllers that totally kick it's ass and make it 'not uncool' but 'not a good console' on it's own."

[Guntz]

C stick nub sucks and has no grip.

Alright. You have one point.

Z button is stiff and out of the way.

There's nothing wrong with it.

The shoulder buttons have massive saddle lips.

Again, there's nothing wrong with it.

The D-pad is horrendously bad, stiff, and tiny.

Fair enough. Two points that lend to your argument now.

The layout of the face buttons is ridiculous.

It's actually rather neat if you think about it. The A Button is easily the most used button in all GC games, so why not make it the most important and therefore, largest? It's pretty convenient once you get past the problem of being an uptight square.

The PS2/Xbox face buttons are pressure sensitive analog. GC is digital.

And how many games use it? Next to none? Oh yeah...

The GC has no weight to it.

Once again, nothing wrong with it. Is it really that big a deal if your controller is lighter than others? If it's such a problem, get a wavebird. The batteries add a bit more weight than the standard controller.

So basically there's two actual flaws with the GC controller. Everything else you listed is subjective nit picking.

I don't even know why you brought the PS2 controller into the discussion. It's superior to the cube's, and a brand choice when it comes to the Xbox S.

He was discussing how the Dreamcast controller compares to Xbox and GC, so I added PS2 into the mix. It IS in the same generation you know. It's ALSO not the greatest controller like everybody and his dog thinks it is. Fanboyism much?

What's unfair about it?

He used the Duke controller to benchmark the Xbox rather than the S controller. Everybody knows the S controller is the standard pad for the Xbox. The fact that he has to use the Duke in his argument pretty much says that he has nothing bad to say about the Xbox controller.

I made the comparison because he was saying the DC hardware was shit, and the controller was uncomfortable, both compared to the Xbox & GC. Now unless you're looking to wedge his argument further by adding even more time to the comparison, the duke controller is what you would look at, considering it was the launch controller.

Nobody looks to the Model 1 Saturn controller as the Saturn's benchmark. NOBODY. Why should the Xbox be any different?

[Knuckle Duster]

There's no 'Point by Point' breakdown to be made here.

The saddle lipped analog shoulder buttons contrast the tiny stiff oddly placed piece of shit Z button. It's like they took aesthetic design to extremes everywhere on the controller.

Face buttons with pressure sensitivity were used in enough games to make a difference to the I/O. In metal gear solid 2 you could back off slowly without shooting someone. In racing games you had the extra dynamic option of letting off the gas without braking, when making turns to qualify. This is not possible on the gamecube.

So basically there's two actual flaws with the GC controller. Everything else you listed is subjective nit picking.

He was discussing how the Dreamcast controller compares to Xbox and GC, so I added PS2 into the mix. It IS in the same generation you know. It's ALSO not the greatest controller like everybody and his dog thinks it is. Fanboyism much?

Subjective nit picking?! Just, shut up and go back to Gamefaqs Koopa64, your pretentious know-it-all attitude flew high in that scene, but it won't score you any points here, especially with arguing nonsensical irrelevancies like 'It IS in the same generation you know.' Of course we know. Who are you calling the fanboy?

He used the Duke controller to benchmark the Xbox rather than the S controller. Everybody knows the S controller is the standard pad for the Xbox. The fact that he has to use the Duke in his argument pretty much says that he has nothing bad to say about the Xbox controller.

You're looking to argue rather than read what's being said. 'I' mentioned the Duke, because it's absurd to compare the Dreacmast, which came out in early 99 to the Xbox as far as hardware is concerned. It's 2-3 years ahead, of course it will be better. The controller S didn't come standard until 2002. Comparing it as being better than the dreamcast is again, absurd.

Nobody looks to the Model 1 Saturn controller as the Saturn's benchmark. NOBODY. Why should the Xbox be any different?

The point is that the comparison itself can't be made fairly! You're an idiot.

[17daysolderthannes]

I really like the Logitech wireless Xbox controller, which I assume has much of the build quality of the Logitech wireless PS2 one you show. And if you don't like shooters, the left analog stick is not your preferred method of control. It is for me. I really wish the DC had had twin sticks though, because I've tried to play a few games on the DC that used the face buttons in place of a right stick (MDK and Carrier come to mind) and I just can't deal with it. I'm not sure if there's a way ti use a PS/PS2 controller and to reconfigure the controls to use 2 sticks, but if there is, I would love to know.

Have you played either of those games, 17days? or would you be willing to try either or both of them with your Total Control and a PS controller?

Well, I come from the days of furious weekends of Goldeneye and later Perfect Dark, so I've been classically trained to use 4 buttons in a "diamond" shape for strafing and looking up and down. Therefore, the DC makes me feel right at home, perhaps even more than dual sticks. To answer your question about using PS2 sticks in place of the face buttons, no, the Total Control Plus doesn't use the second stick for anything. However, you CAN perhaps do it with a Dreamcast emulator as I use the second stick in place of the C-buttons on Project64 since there aren't enough face buttons on a standard PS2 controller.

This thread has a strange premise. 'Save money by buying this console and pirating its games'.



First off, ODST's Firefight mode is a botmatch. Sorry.

Second, bots are a remnant of an age without the Internet, and where the absolute limitation for multiplayer was four people squinting at a single screen. Fire off more than a few rounds, though, and you'd get a better frame rate by painting images onto bread and toasting them. And possibly at a better resolution than the N64 *rimshot*

but seriously, as Knuckle Duster mentioned, if you're playing against bots you're (uuuurgh here it comes) playing it wrong (aaargh!): bots are no substitute for human beings. You can increase their weapon damage, you can give them sight beyond sight, you can turn them into bullet sponges, but they won't play like people.

There's a MGS Raiden joke in here somewhere, but I'm sounding goony enough by far already. Bottom line is, why would I want to play against AI when I can connect to Xbox Live and immediately jump into a 16-player deathmatch in Halo 3? For games where the online multiplayer has flatlined (uhh, Call of Suity Quantum of Solace) there's always the local multiplayer/System Link option.

The premise of this thread is "cheap good times." Who cares if we pirate the games, the developers have stopped profiting long ago and probably 98% of its library has no modern commercially available equivalent. It's not just the easy piracy that makes it cool either: cheat CDs and VMU save discs can be burned for free rather than shelling out 20 bucks for a cheat device or 40 bucks for a memory card reader, emulation is the best for an unmodded console and by far the most accessible to the lay man outside of a PC emulator (in fact, I would argue Nester DC is more user friendly than a standard PC NES emulator), and homebrew is top notch and can be played without modding the system, which is awesome.

As for the rest...

I didn't know ODST had that mode, but it took them long enough. My first impression when playing Halo was "WTF? where are the bots!?"

Bots offer something human players alone can't provide. For instance, you and your friend can team up against another team of bots and see who can kill the most non-human players. In Perfect Dark, you can basically create your own games. When I would get bored, I would put the maximum number of slow, easy, fist bots all on a team against me. Then, I would change the weapons to all shotguns. The bots would just slowly creep towards me trying to slap me, and I would promptly blast the shit out of them by the boatload. In essence, I created my own survivor/horror game. Doing this while teamed up with a friend was a really fun experience and something playing against human players online could never re-create. Also, online players tend to be overzealous people that do nothing but barely eat and sleep and play that one game. How am I supposed to compete with someone that has 100X as much time invested in the game as I do? I think newer consoles use some sort of rankings to even up the field (I haven't played anything online in quite a while), which helps, but it's still a different experience. I also hate people that figure out glitch exploitation, especially in fighting games.

Lol... this is why games that are meant for PC like Unreal/etc are best on PC.

And the Tony Hawk games look amazing on the PC with updated Textures, etxtra features in some cases, and the ability to force AA and V-Sync = the games looking 10x better.

I'm just not a big fan of the keyboard and mouse. I like just a little bit of auto aim and otherwise standard joystick movement. I also like the consistency you get by playing on consoles, especially online. There's nothing worse than getting your ass handed to you because someone just blew $5000 on a new gaming rig and has the upper hand on you from hardware alone.

I've played Tony Hawk 2 on PC before and IMO it looks just as good on DC. Maybe it would be a different story on an HDTV, but I'm content with the DC version.

why do people overrate soul calibur so much it's literally not one of the top ten best fighting games on the dreamcast

Soul Calibur is fucking horrible. There, I said it. It's nothing more than random button mashing nonsense. I've never seen a game where someone who's never played video games before could jump in and totally stomp a seasoned player. Tekken can also go to hell. Street Fighter, Mortal Kombat, Fatal Fury, King of Fighters, Samurai Shodown, this is what all true warriors strive for! But no Marvel Vs. Capcom, that game is just one big clusterfuck of bullshit.

[Knuckle Duster]

Soul Calibur is fucking horrible. There, I said it. It's nothing more than random button mashing nonsense. I've never seen a game where someone who's never played video games before could jump in and totally stomp a seasoned player. Tekken can also go to hell. Street Fighter, Mortal Kombat, Fatal Fury, King of Fighters, Samurai Shodown, this is what all true warriors strive for! But no Marvel Vs. Capcom, that game is just one big clusterfuck of bullshit.

Soul Calibur is perfectly balanced though. A seasoned player should be able to block and throw everything a button masher gives them. As with all fighters, it comes down to learning how to play properly. This is why Virtua Fighter is awesome.

[17daysolderthannes]

Soul Calibur is perfectly balanced though. A seasoned player should be able to block and throw everything a button masher gives them. As with all fighters, it comes down to learning how to play properly. This is why Virtua Fighter is awesome.

Eh, I'm kinda racist against any fighter that has combo systems. That's why I don't like Killer Instinct, Soul Calibur, Tekken, Virtua Fighter, MVC2, etc. I also don't like playing the Real Bout Fatal Fury and Garou: Mark of the Wolves games when playing against advanced players because of the semi-combo system in there.

I did forget to mention my favorite 3D fighter though: Battle Arena Toshinden (specifically 2). It's the only 3D fighter that wasn't a combo clusterfuck.

[acdc]

terminator 2 the arcade game for the master system compleet for 5 euro
it s a rare game for the master system but it can be played with the light phaser
only with the control pad

[Knuckle Duster]

terminator 2 the arcade game for the master system compleet for 5 euro
it s a rare game for the master system but it can be played with the light phaser
only with the control pad

[acdc]

Yeah im cool in a 80 s way.
That s why i m wearing sunglasses at night becaus the sun shines 24 houers a day when your cool.

[Knuckle Duster]

Yeah im cool in a 80 s way.
That s why i m wearing sunglasses at night becaus the sun shines 24 houers a day when your cool.

Blinded by coolness, enough to post your latest buy in a Dreamcast thread without noticing.