Saturn or Dreamcast?

[gamevet]

Don't inflate the prestige of Hang-On GP 95, it's a poorly programmed piece of trash. Look at that animation, garbage.

The guy playing that game in the video sucks. The lean animation you're seeing is on purpose; it's not because of poor programming. If you've play the original Hang-On, you'll notice that it has that lean animation as well. The big difference is that the original arcade game is more forgiving and has more open road. Hang-On GP 95 will really piss you off, until you figure out how to play it. It's not a push-over game by any means and it demands perfection (like most Sega arcade racers) if you want to get past the first track.

This guy is a better player, but he still doesn't have the fluid driving skills that are required to master this track. It's all about getting the bike to full speed, hitting the corner perfectly, and gliding through it. It really is a masterful piece of work by Genki.

So the Saturn library is so pathetic you have to resort to...PINBALL to drag its name out of the mud? wow. If I want to play pinball, I'll play actual pinball. I'm in disbelief they even have pinball video games, I'm amazed we haven't had video games where you control someone playing another game (oh wait, Shenmue.)

When was the last time you've actually went to an arcade and played real pinball? The tables are crooked, the slope is either too low, or like a ski jump. Then you have broken bumpers and flippers that barely work. There's a reason pinball died before the arcade did.

Video pinball offers a unique experience you can't get with the real game either. Any fan of pinball would more than appreciate just how good Last Gladiators is. The fact that you turn your nose to it, pretty much shows how narrow your view of the software is. The fact that you bring up that you'd rather play a Jaguar says enough.

Oh, so walking into a game store and spending money makes you more knowledgeable about the library? OK

No, but it certainly shows my dedication to the console and its games. It's defineatly more credible than some dude burning a bunch of games, breezing through them and then moving onto the next game in the pile. I've done the same thing with the C-64 and I pretty much gave a ton of games very little time since there was another waiting to be played.

Claiming how many physical copies you have doesn't even make sense in this argument, it's purely number of games you have experienced to a reasonable extent. Hell, I wouldn't even need to own a DC at all for this argument if my friend had one that I played on a regular basis.

I've played more DC games than what I currently own. I've had my whole DC collection stolen at one point, and never replaced games like Power Stone or GigaWing 2. I most defineatly played over 100 titles on both the DC and Saturn.

You have some of the worst shit DC games out there, no wonder you don't like it.

here's my list of both legit and burned games combined (not just the best, this is everything):

Border Down
Zero Gunner 2
Ikaruga
Bomberman Online
Beats of Rage Collection (homebrew)
Cannon Spike (short, but fun, and it has Mega Man!)
Capcom vs. SNK Millenium Fight 2000
Marvel Vs. Capcom 2
Street Fighter III Third Strike
Super Street Fighter II: Grand Master Challenge
Super Puzzle Fighter II
Cosmic Smash
Daytona USA
Fatal Fury: Mark of the Wolves
Giga Wing 2
Guilty Gear X
Hydro Thunder
Jet Grind Radio (I don't like it as much as others do, but it's OK)
King of Fighters: Evolution (my favorite King of Fighters behind 98 Ultimate Match, mostly because it lets you play as 1 character rather than a team)
Mega Man Beats of Rage (Beats of Rage with Mega Man characters!)
Metropolis Street Racer
MTV Sports Skateboarding (OK, this one's pretty shitty)
Showtime: NBA on NBC (3D sequel to NBA JAM)
Power Stone
Power Stone 2
Project Justice
Propeller Arena
Puyo Puyo Fever
Razor Scooter (better than you'd think, I was curious as to its fruitiness)
Rez
Segagaga (shooter playable without knowing Japanese thanks to Dream Explorer!)
Soldier of Fortune (better than PS2 version IMO)
Sonic Adventure
Sonic Adventure 2 (Knuckles levels can be skipped by using Dream Explorer save and level select)
Star Wars Episode I Jedi Power Battles
Star Wars Episode I Racer
Super Magnetic Neo
Super Runabout: San Francisco
Test Drive Le Mans
Test Drive V-Rally
TNN Hardcore Heat
Tokyo Xtreme Racer 2 (the best TXR excluding the Drift series)
Tony Hawk's Pro Skater (the best version)
Tony Hawk's Pro Skater 2 (the best version IMO)
Toy Commander
Under Defeat
Unreal Tournament
Viligante 8 2nd Offense
Virtual On - Oratorio Tangram (didn't like it, but some like this series)
Worms World Party
Worms Armageddon

If you have 50 burned games and 25 legit ones, what happened to your list?



Did you actually look at the games I'd posted in those pictures?

I posted pictures of Border Down, Capcom vs. SNK, Marvel Vs. Capcom 2 and several other high-profile DC titles.

TNN hardcore is a total turd of a game, Test Drive V-Rally is a PSX game with better texture mapping, Guilty Gear X is a pretty fighter with little substance, NBA Showtime is one of those titles I called "falling off after the big 30", Puyo Puyo fever (it's pretty much a Cell phone game) has been done in many different (Bomberman Panic, Dr. Mario etc...) forms , Razor Scooter? (probably the lowest rated game on the system) and MTV Scateboarding is crap.

I'd sold Hydro Thunder years ago, after I'd bought Midway Arcade Treasures 3, since it has a better version of the game. I have Ikaruga on GC and REZ on PS2 and 360.

DC is no slouch with 2D either. Capcom vs. SNK 1 and 2, MVC 2, Fatal Fury Mark of the Wolves, Guilty Gear X (import), SF III Third Strike, Super SF II Grand Master Challenge (AKA Turbo), Super Puzzle Fighter, Puyo Puyo Fever (AWESOME import), etc. etc.

I've pretty much played all of those games, and own most of them.

If you really want to play a unique game on the Dreamcast, I highly recommend Armada; It's a really cool RPG shooter. Bangai-o should be on your list as well.

[JackieBogard]

For RPGs: Saturn, no question.

For a little of everything and some of the best fighting games ever: Dreamcast.

honestly Saturn had some nice fighters as well. if you're a huge fighting fan, both Sega systems are a must.

[j_factor]

Test Drive V-Rally is a PSX game with better texture mapping

That describes a pretty significant portion of my Dreamcast collection. I don't see anything wrong with it though -- differences in texture mapping/filtering/anti-aliasing alone can make a pretty big difference (and often did, when it comes to PSX-to-DC ports). Hell, Metal Gear Solid shows a pretty significant difference in bleemcast, and that's working with the exact same game data. I only wish there were more of these ports (and/or more editions of bleemcast).

[gamevet]

That describes a pretty significant portion of my Dreamcast collection. I don't see anything wrong with it though -- differences in texture mapping/filtering/anti-aliasing alone can make a pretty big difference (and often did, when it comes to PSX-to-DC ports). Hell, Metal Gear Solid shows a pretty significant difference in bleemcast, and that's working with the exact same game data. I only wish there were more of these ports (and/or more editions of bleemcast).

Metal Gear Solid didn't show a massive improvement on the DC. Gran Turismo 2 looked like a totally different game with Bleemcast though.

[Da_Shocker]

TheEdge is banned yet 17daysolderthannes is still allowed to post? BLASPHEMY!

[17daysolderthannes]

Well, you're basically implying that "Megaman Beats of Rage" would be better than anything on Saturn. I think it's pretty obvious that there are good games on Saturn, pinball or not.

not at all, just that the aggregate of good DC games far outweighs the aggregate of good Saturn games, especially if you consider fun per dollar or even the fact that DC can play CD-Rs unmodded whereas the Saturn needs a modchip that most people have hell getting to work and then many of the game rips for Saturn don't keep consistent format like DC with .cdi so you never know what program you need to use. Most Saturn games I've tried won't burn right or even boot in the emulator. Almost everything for DC has worked great (excluding Ferrari F355 challenge, if someone could drop me a link to one that doesn't crash DiscJuggler or simply not work when burned, that would be great).

Yeah, and there are plenty of Saturn titles that run circles around, for example, Cannon Spike.

I'd never pay the going price for Cannon Spike, but that game is undeniably a fun few minutes/hour.

That describes a pretty significant portion of my Dreamcast collection. I don't see anything wrong with it though -- differences in texture mapping/filtering/anti-aliasing alone can make a pretty big difference (and often did, when it comes to PSX-to-DC ports). Hell, Metal Gear Solid shows a pretty significant difference in bleemcast, and that's working with the exact same game data. I only wish there were more of these ports (and/or more editions of bleemcast).

Well, there is the beta disc of Bleemcast (which is pretty hit and miss) as well as several pre-made Bleemcast discs. All of them can be had by your pals at DCISOZONE. Grand Theft Auto in Bleem is actually the best looking/playing version I've come across (minus a few video and menu glitches). It seems to run a little fast, but it feels right. The normal PSX version lags like a bitch and the PC version is hell to run on a modern computer (even in DOSBOX). Even then, I think the DC version looks better than the PC version.

TheEdge is banned yet 17daysolderthannes is still allowed to post? BLASPHEMY!

I don't post about how the government is trying to poison America with fluoride in the water.

The guy playing that game in the video sucks. The lean animation you're seeing is on purpose; it's not because of poor programming. If you've play the original Hang-On, you'll notice that it has that lean animation as well. The big difference is that the original arcade game is more forgiving and has more open road. Hang-On GP 95 will really piss you off, until you figure out how to play it. It's not a push-over game by any means and it demands perfection (like most Sega arcade racers) if you want to get past the first track.

This guy is a better player, but he still doesn't have the fluid driving skills that are required to master this track. It's all about getting the bike to full speed, hitting the corner perfectly, and gliding through it. It really is a masterful piece of work by Genki.

So a game is good because it's overly touchy and requires absolute perfection? I don't think so. Overly sensitive controls is a big reason Enthusia never took off compared to Gran Turismo (a funky system for unlocking cars didn't help either). Without a good understanding of real racing dynamics, Enthusia is virtually impossible to play for most people. At least Enthusia was a real deal racing sim when you get down to it, Hang On 95 is just an overly touchy arcade game.

When was the last time you've actually went to an arcade and played real pinball? The tables are crooked, the slope is either too low, or like a ski jump. Then you have broken bumpers and flippers that barely work. There's a reason pinball died before the arcade did.

Video pinball offers a unique experience you can't get with the real game either. Any fan of pinball would more than appreciate just how good Last Gladiators is. The fact that you turn your nose to it, pretty much shows how narrow your view of the software is. The fact that you bring up that you'd rather play a Jaguar says enough.

My point is that pinball is in essence an older format of Arcade. IMO, it's like buying an XBOX 360 to play Pac Man and only Pac Man or something. "Oh dude, XBOX Live Arcade has an arcade perfect port of Pac Man, I'm picking up a 360 just for that!" Those are words you will never hear. Unlike racing, skateboarding, basketball, etc. games that let you do things that are too dangerous or outside of your ability in real life, pinball is virtually identical in difficulty between a pinball machine and a pinball game. Now if you just LOOOOVE pinball and can't afford a machine, I could see someone buying it to keep them occupied between trips to wherever they play pinball, but it's certainly not a system seller IMO.

No, but it certainly shows my dedication to the console and its games. It's defineatly more credible than some dude burning a bunch of games, breezing through them and then moving onto the next game in the pile. I've done the same thing with the C-64 and I pretty much gave a ton of games very little time since there was another waiting to be played.

Again, not really. If you have enough cash and the store has the inventory, you could walk in and scoop up a giant collection of games without having a clue as to what you're buying. Just because it's ROMs/ISOs doesn't mean it has to be a passing glance at the game. At the same time, just because it's real doesn't mean you've put hours of playtime into it. I have quite a few games I never touched again after testing just because I have so many and the mood hasn't struck me yet. Owning games doesn't make you an expert on playing them. Most of the reason I don't have more DC games is because they never surface around here.

I've played more DC games than what I currently own. I've had my whole DC collection stolen at one point, and never replaced games like Power Stone or GigaWing 2. I most defineatly played over 100 titles on both the DC and Saturn.

I don't care for the original Power Stone either, I think the sequel is much better, but still behind other fighters/beat em ups on the system.

I've looked into the Saturn alot, but I haven't seen hardly anything that looks like something I would actually want to play to try it out. It's not a pure graphics thing either, I love the shit out of my 32X as well as SNES Super FX games (I actually have every US released Super FX game, a few CIB as well).

If you have 50 burned games and 25 legit ones, what happened to your list?

lots of overlap. I'm converting everything I can to CD-R for when I move to New York because space will be limited and I don't have room for stacks and stacks of game cases. I know I could put the real discs in a binder, but A) that's a big loss if someone steals that binder and B) I don't want to seperate the games from the cases because if someone did steal that binder, I'd have a bunch of empty cases.

Let me tell you, having a CD binder of DC games is actually really convenient.

Did you actually look at the games I'd posted in those pictures?

I posted pictures of Border Down, Capcom vs. SNK, Marvel Vs. Capcom 2 and several other high-profile DC titles.


TNN hardcore is a total turd of a game, Test Drive V-Rally is a PSX game with better texture mapping, Guilty Gear X is a pretty fighter with little substance, NBA Showtime is one of those titles I called "falling off after the big 30", Puyo Puyo fever (it's pretty much a Cell phone game) has been done in many different (Bomberman Panic, Dr. Mario etc...) forms , Razor Scooter? (probably the lowest rated game on the system) and MTV Scateboarding is crap.

I'd sold Hydro Thunder years ago, after I'd bought Midway Arcade Treasures 3, since it has a better version of the game. I have Ikaruga on GC and REZ on PS2 and 360.

I said I just posted the list of games I owned or burned, I didn't claim EVERY game on the list was gold. I agree about most of your crap assertions except for Puyo Puyo Fever, NBA Showtime, Test Drive V-Rally. Puyo Puyo Fever is the best version of Puyo Puyo IMO. It may be a simple game, but so are several puzzle games on the Saturn, and IMO Puyo Puyo Fever beats them. NBA Showtime is fun, no doubt about it. It's not really improved over NBA JAM, but the 3D is worth noting. Test Drive V-Rally is one of the better rally racing games I've played and I really like the lineup of cars. I'm a WRC fan, so naturally I'm already slanted to it, but it's a really fun pick up and play rally racing game.

I've pretty much played all of those games, and own most of them.

If you really want to play a unique game on the Dreamcast, I highly recommend Armada; It's a really cool RPG shooter. Bangai-o should be on your list as well.

I hate RPGs, you should know this by now.

I've watched gameplay videos of Bangai-o and I didn't like the metroid-esque level progression. I like my shooters to be from point A to point B, not through points C D E F G H I J K L M N O P.

[Da_Shocker]

I guess I should'nt expect much out of you 17days as you love the emulation scene and playing burned copies. As I have know beefs with emulation or roms (I use them myself) that but it seems that you main love for the DC is because it is so pirate friendly out of the box. I did find it amusing that you said that the Jaguar was better than the Saturn.

[Guntz]

Well you gotta admit, it IS pretty crazy that a system as powerful as Dreamcast can be pirated for with no modifications. Might as well make use of it. Not doing a little pirating or homebrewing on Dreamcast is like not opening a sealed game. It's a waste of opportunity.

I haven't bought any Dreamcast games in a long time and I probably won't do much pirating anyway. I try to buy real games more than pirating. That's what I do with my Sega CD. If you pirate too much you get over saturated. It's a better to have some self control and enjoy the games as they come, at a slow pace.

[17daysolderthannes]

I guess I should'nt expect much out of you 17days as you love the emulation scene and playing burned copies. As I have know beefs with emulation or roms (I use them myself) that but it seems that you main love for the DC is because it is so pirate friendly out of the box. I did find it amusing that you said that the Jaguar was better than the Saturn.

WTF? shouldn't expect much out of me? Look, the Saturn sucks! sorry! it does!

How many times to I have to cite my 650+ physical legitimate game collection for people to stop accusing me of strictly playing ROMs and bootlegs?

While easy CD-R playback is certainly nice, that is FAR from the reason I like the DC nor why I dislike the Saturn. As it's been said many times, once you get rid of games that can be played in MAME (in arcade perfect form), games that had versions on PSX (that were just as good, I don't buy this "better animation OMGZ!" BS), or just plain suck, you're left with NiGHTS, Mr. Bones, and Panzer Dragoon I and II.

I would gladly take a DC over a Gamecube or XBOX anyday, especially including its homebrew library, emulation library, and Bleemed PSX library (sorta emulation). The only reason PS2 beats out DC is the sheer size and scope of its library, and just barely so (Shadow of the Colossus and Gran Turismo 3/4 help alot).

[gamevet]

So a game is good because it's overly touchy and requires absolute perfection? I don't think so. Overly sensitive controls is a big reason Enthusia never took off compared to Gran Turismo (a funky system for unlocking cars didn't help either). Without a good understanding of real racing dynamics, Enthusia is virtually impossible to play for most people. At least Enthusia was a real deal racing sim when you get down to it, Hang On 95 is just an overly touchy arcade game.

Hang-On GP isn't overly touchy by poor design choice though, unlike Auto Modellista that had great presentation, but fell flat on its face because of slippery car physics.

You wouldn't call Super-C garbage, because you died a million times on the first couple of levels, would you? Both games were designed to be very difficult, because they are arcade games, not because the developers didn't have a clue how to make a good game.

My point is that pinball is in essence an older format of Arcade. IMO, it's like buying an XBOX 360 to play Pac Man and only Pac Man or something. "Oh dude, XBOX Live Arcade has an arcade perfect port of Pac Man, I'm picking up a 360 just for that!" Those are words you will never hear. Unlike racing, skateboarding, basketball, etc. games that let you do things that are too dangerous or outside of your ability in real life, pinball is virtually identical in difficulty between a pinball machine and a pinball game. Now if you just LOOOOVE pinball and can't afford a machine, I could see someone buying it to keep them occupied between trips to wherever they play pinball, but it's certainly not a system seller IMO.

What does system seller have to do with the game being good though?

You bring up Puyo Puyo Fever, when it's very much a niche audience playing it. You have Worms on the DC, when it's very much a small selling item. Does the Saturn suck because it has a Worms game as well?

Before Last Gladiators, the best video pinball game was the semi-popular Alien Crush and its sequel, Devil's Crush. People weren't buying those games in droves, but they still were quite popular within the gaming crowds. Even today, Pinball Hall of Fame has been popular enough to have been published on the PS2, Wii, PSP, 360 and PS3.

Unless you live in huge house, or you don't like using your garage to cover your car, the luxury space needed for a couple of pinball machines is not the norm. I live in a house that is 2,000 sq. feet, and I don't have the room for such a large machine. My dad had one pinball machine when I was around 12, but once we'd moved into town, the new house didn't have the room for it, so my dad sold it to my uncle.


The last time I checked, Kaze's Gladiator didn't exist in real form.

Again, not really. If you have enough cash and the store has the inventory, you could walk in and scoop up a giant collection of games without having a clue as to what you're buying. Just because it's ROMs/ISOs doesn't mean it has to be a passing glance at the game. At the same time, just because it's real doesn't mean you've put hours of playtime into it. I have quite a few games I never touched again after testing just because I have so many and the mood hasn't struck me yet. Owning games doesn't make you an expert on playing them. Most of the reason I don't have more DC games is because they never surface around here.

I've had the DC since launch. A good portion of my collection was very inexpensive, including Marvel vs. Capcom 2 and the Agetec arcade stick. I've had over 10 years to acquire the amount of games I have, for both the Saturn and DC. I've had more than enough time to play 8-10 games a year on either system.

I can't say the same for the C-64. I have over 500 games for the system, yet I probably only bought about 20 legit titles for it. The ultra crappy Forbidden Forest got a decent amount of playtime, because I'd spent $20 on the title; I'm pretty sure it would have gone right back into the pile if it was one of the free games though. Meanwhile, the highly praised Barbarian got a little playtime, but I didn't feel like taking the time to master the moves. I probably would have played Barbarian a lot more, if I'd have money invested in it though.

I've looked into the Saturn alot, but I haven't seen hardly anything that looks like something I would actually want to play to try it out. It's not a pure graphics thing either, I love the shit out of my 32X as well as SNES Super FX games (I actually have every US released Super FX game, a few CIB as well).

I don't get that, because over 75% of the games on the 32X have a better or equal version on the Saturn.

Let me tell you, having a CD binder of DC games is actually really convenient.

I keep 75% of my Saturn games in 2 different hard plastic CD cases. It's much easier to get to the games I want to play. The DC games all fit into a couple of nice little bins, so the binder isn't so necessary.

I hate RPGs, you should know this by now.

It has RPG elements, but it doesn't play like an RPG. It's basically a combination of Sinistar, Asteroids and Bosconian all combined into a much bigger game. You collect coins and random parts that can be used to upgrade your ship. You stop on planets to advance the storyline and then go back out to battle in space. It's a pretty cool game!

[Da_Shocker]

While easy CD-R playback is certainly nice, that is FAR from the reason I like the DC nor why I dislike the Saturn. As it's been said many times, once you get rid of games that can be played in MAME (in arcade perfect form), games that had versions on PSX (that were just as good, I don't buy this "better animation OMGZ!" BS), or just plain suck, you're left with NiGHTS, Mr. Bones, and Panzer Dragoon I and II.

You can't play Model 2 games on MAME. And the DC has one of the worst controllers for fighters. You either had to but an arcade pad or grab one of the Total Controllers which allowed you to use the Saturn pads. As for MAME I g]have 18,000 arcade roms or so and even a USB Saturn pad. Other than some Model 2 games i'd rather play virtually everything on my Saturn. The only game that suffered from issues was D&D Collections due to it load times, lack of a 4 player and language barrier. Otherwise virtually every other 2D Capcom game was superb.

I have stated numerous times that around 80% of the 3rd party games on the Saturn trash inferior ports of PSX games. So how many 6 player fighting games are there for the DC or any other system for that matter? And 10 player Bomberman games?

Duke Nukem 3D
Burning Rangers
Fighters Megamix
Dragon Force
Shining Force III
Legend of Oasis
Guardian Hero's
Saturn Bomberman
Shinobi Legions
Wipeout 2097 (better drawn in and a higer framerate than the PSX version)
Gun Griffon (best 32-Bit mech game)
Sonic Jam (best Sonic compilation EVER)
Virtua Cop 1&2
Wing Arms
Herc's Adventure
Magic Knight Rayearth
Shining the Holy Ark

There are tons of great games for the Saturn and for you 17days to come on here an completely disregard the system and trash it is dumb as hell. I typically don't agree with some people on here but I respect there views. You on the other hand (SMDH) just wanna come on here and trash the Saturn every single time you get. I personally don't feel that should even be allowed in here, that is completely childish.

[gamevet]

Wipeout 2097 (better drawn in and a higer framerate than the PSX version)

It also has Red Book audio, as does Tempest 2000.

The game just feels smoother on the Saturn. The textures are a bit grainier, but it's still the better experience.

[Knuckle Duster]

Has anybody worn out a Saturn, or knows how hard it is to service the CD rom/Cart slot with aftermarket parts? Is the lifespan similar to a Playstation or what?

I know the original playstation is cheap in the sense that it's junk, but the drive is easy enough to replace.

It's too bad that GDRom's can't be bought anymore, I actually needed one to revive a dead DC about a year after they disappeared.

[TmEE]

I got 5x Dreamcasts which of 3 got dead GD drives and 3x Saturns with 2x dead CD drives (and 2x dead PSU's).

[17daysolderthannes]

You can't play Model 2 games on MAME.

yes you can. I know the speed/emulation isn't perfect yet and I believe you need a top of the line system to do it, but it's there. Given another year or two it'll probably be top notch.

And the DC has one of the worst controllers for fighters. You either had to but an arcade pad or grab one of the Total Controllers which allowed you to use the Saturn pads.

First off, anyone who is serious about fighters uses a joystick. Second of all, aside from the Genesis and Saturn, what system DOES have a good controller for fighters? The MadCatz Dream Pad is OK for fighters, but the d-pad is a little sloppier than I had hoped (might've just got one with bad tolerances). Controllers are such a retarded argument when 3rd party controllers and controller adapters exist. I can't believe people still bitch about PS3 controllers when the PS2 back catalog as well as several 3rd part PS3 controllers exist [/tangent rant]

As for MAME I g]have 18,000 arcade roms or so and even a USB Saturn pad. Other than some Model 2 games i'd rather play virtually everything on my Saturn. The only game that suffered from issues was D&D Collections due to it load times, lack of a 4 player and language barrier. Otherwise virtually every other 2D Capcom game was superb.

You opinion doesn't make it fact. The only time I prefer games on consoles over the arcade is if they add a significant "story mode" or they are easier. Neither of those things really apply to fighters. Plus, the versus series sucks, it just does, only Capcom vs. SNK 1 and 2 are any good and only because they stuck to SF II and FF3 rather than clusterfucking nonsense like MVC2 and its predecessors (I know MVC 2 was a DC game, but its the epitome of versus series stupid gameplay).

I have stated numerous times that around 80% of the 3rd party games on the Saturn trash inferior ports of PSX games. So how many 6 player fighting games are there for the DC or any other system for that matter? And 10 player Bomberman games?

who the hell plays fighting games with 6 players? who EVER has 10 people over to play bomberman? who would want to play with 10 people on one television? That's what online play is for.

Duke Nukem 3D
Burning Rangers
Fighters Megamix
Dragon Force
Shining Force III
Legend of Oasis
Guardian Hero's
Saturn Bomberman
Shinobi Legions
Wipeout 2097 (better drawn in and a higer framerate than the PSX version)
Gun Griffon (best 32-Bit mech game)
Sonic Jam (best Sonic compilation EVER)
Virtua Cop 1&2
Wing Arms
Herc's Adventure
Magic Knight Rayearth
Shining the Holy Ark

better on PC, shit, shit, crap, crap, turd, gay, shit, etc.

Nothing in that list says "OMG MUST HAVE!"

There are tons of great games for the Saturn and for you 17days to come on here an completely disregard the system and trash it is dumb as hell. I typically don't agree with some people on here but I respect there views. You on the other hand (SMDH) just wanna come on here and trash the Saturn every single time you get. I personally don't feel that should even be allowed in here, that is completely childish.

So I should be ?banned? because I find the Saturn horrendously and senselessly overrated? People shit all over the iPhone constantly, but that's A OK? It's not childish, the dude asked: "DC OR SATURN" I enthusiastically said "motha fuckin DC!" Even without easy backups and homebrew, I'd still rather a DC any day. Even if the games were the same price, I would still rather DC (I could have a collection of DC games for the price of most individual Saturn games). Saturn is the most undeserving expensive-to-collect-for system out there. A Neo Geo AES/MVS supergun/CD is a much more deserving system to collect for. Then again, the DC can play just about any Neo CD game near perfectly (excluding some sound effects) with fast load times, so....

Has anybody worn out a Saturn, or knows how hard it is to service the CD rom/Cart slot with aftermarket parts? Is the lifespan similar to a Playstation or what?

I know the original playstation is cheap in the sense that it's junk, but the drive is easy enough to replace.

It's too bad that GDRom's can't be bought anymore, I actually needed one to revive a dead DC about a year after they disappeared.

I don't think anyone has played a Saturn enough to wear it out

The original Playstation isn't that bad, only the early drives seem to ever have problems. AFAIK, the PS Ones are very solid.

As for GD ROMs, I've seen posts (can't remember which forum) of someone working on an SD card adapter for DC that would let you play actual GDIs (bit for bit copies of the games rather than reformatted for CD-Rs) without having to use the GD ROM at all. This would be great as most DCs seem to have no problems booting as long as they haven't been abused.