Saturn or Dreamcast?

[Da_Shocker]

17days cracks me the fuck up.

Sega 16, not Sega 32. Segasaturn.co.uk is where you need to be if you want to sackride the Saturn and shit on the iPhone (and oh boy did they shit on the iPhone when I mentioned it had a port of Pandemonium, holy christ!). Sega produces games for the iPhone and it's a current gen video game platform. If we can discuss PSP, DS, XBOX 360, PS3, and Wii, we can sure as hell discuss the iPhone. If you DON'T want to discuss the iPhone...don't.

If that is the point then this isn't Sega 128 either. Listen man Sega comes FIRST before anything else period. I have no issues with the Iphone but I do find it amusing how you dickride the hell out of it and how it's such a great product and it's games are awesome yada yada. From what I heard the Iphone is at it's best when it's jailbroken but you don't want to void your warranty by doing that LOL.

[TheRollingStoner]

(double post, I know, but I didn't want it to get lost in all of the rebuttles)

What would anyone recommend for a good ScummVM game to show to friends, etc. when demonstrating the DC? I also want just a fun game to play through to try out the old LucasArts games as well.

Day of the Tentacle is a pretty sweet game. It's my favorite LucasArts adventure title. I also love Sam & Max Hit the Road. I burned a SCUMMVM disc with both of those on it, but I couldn't get it to work. Maybe someday I'll get it going.

[j_factor]

Piracy was by no means the end of the DC, but if you look a little closer at the numbers, it does have some bearing.

If you look at the sales numbers in North America for the DC, it sold around 2.5 million units by the end of 2000. NFL2K and NFL2K1 was sold to 1 out of every 2 owners (North America) that bought a Dreamcast within the first year. I'd guess 70% of those NFL fans didn't wait around for the PS2 and the next Madden, so they bought into the DC and its NFL franchise. Other sports fans made 6 out of the top 10 DC games being sports titles. The following year NFL2K2, and the rest of the 2K sports titles just kind of came and stuck to store shelves.

If you look at the sales of the Saturn in North America, it sold somewhere around 1.5 to 1.8 million units. Sega didn't have a real NFL title for the system, but it had its little core base of diehard Sega gamers that stuck with the Sega console. I have little doubt that without NFL2K and the rest of the 2K sports lineup, the DC would have suffered a simular fate in the US.

Once you strip away the casual sports gamers that moved on to PS2, you're left with a small but dedicated group of users that was probably no bigger than those that stuck with the Saturn, but at least the Saturn had 5 million Japanese systems with a dedicated fanbase, unlike the DC that stumbled everywhere outside of North America. The real question then becomes: "What are they buying?"

Outside of those sports franchises, only a handful of DC titles were selling more than 500K. It was titles like Shenmue, Phantasy Star Online, Resident Evil: CE and Crazy Taxi. Capcom releases titles like Cannon Spike, Street Fighter III and Marvel vs. Capcom 2, but they aren't selling over 100K and neither are other 3rd party titles.

What do those number add up to?

It appears that most of the DC owners were either fans of a few Sega franchises, fans of Sega, Sports fans, or into buying the latest thing. Those that stuck around probably weren't in the sporting segment, since EA was on the other console, the Sonic fans were waiting for the next game in the franchise and the remaining crowd was pretty segmented on what they wanted to play.

Can you imagine now, if 1 in every 7 DC owners (the rest moved to PS2) had the ability to play free DC games and opted not to buy the game instead. If Capcom had a title that could sell 40K, but 5.6K went to piracy, the numbers then drop to a title selling only 34K. The numbers get even more disappointing to a lesser known title. Does a publisher stick around, or do they take their chances on a console with more competition, yet a better chance that 100% of their product was sold to someone, instead of copied?

Even Capcom stuck around with the Saturn, long after it was pronounced dead. I don't recall them doing the same for the DC.

The problem with the comparison that you're making is that piracy wasn't the only thing that "happened" to the DC in there. When NFL 2K2 came out, the system was discontinued, stores were already clearancing out their Dreamcast stock, and the game itself wasn't even exclusive to Dreamcast. Even if they had never figured out how to pirate Dreamcast games, I'm sure it still would have sold quite a lot less than its predecessors.

Also I really don't think games like Cannon Spike would have sold better on any other system.

[gamevet]

The problem with the comparison that you're making is that piracy wasn't the only thing that "happened" to the DC in there. When NFL 2K2 came out, the system was discontinued, stores were already clearancing out their Dreamcast stock, and the game itself wasn't even exclusive to Dreamcast. Even if they had never figured out how to pirate Dreamcast games, I'm sure it still would have sold quite a lot less than its predecessors.

Also I really don't think games like Cannon Spike would have sold better on any other system.

I'm just saying that any chance the DC had left, pretty much died when the GD-rom protection was figured out.

I brought up the sales numbers of the 2K2 games, not because of piracy, but to show that the sports fans had already left the system behind.

[retrospiel]

Well, like j_factor wrote, Dreamcast was cancelled in January 2001, before Phantasy Star Online (v1!) was even released.

@17days: The best Lucas Arts games are Monkey Island 1 and 2. There is PC CD-ROM version of Monkey Island 1 which would be my recommendation for a start.

Day of the Tentacle and especially Sam & Max are visually more impressive though.

Keep in mind though, that these games were meant to be played on a PC via mouse and keyboard, not on a console via joypad. That said, they sure are emulated perfectly and do look awesome on the big screen.

[Hiarcs]

The piracy factor, darn that affects much it is true.

[17daysolderthannes]

17days cracks me the fuck up.



If that is the point then this isn't Sega 128 either. Listen man Sega comes FIRST before anything else period. I have no issues with the Iphone but I do find it amusing how you dickride the hell out of it and how it's such a great product and it's games are awesome yada yada. From what I heard the Iphone is at it's best when it's jailbroken but you don't want to void your warranty by doing that LOL.

Again, what about all of the PS3, XBOX 360, Wii, DS, and PSP discussion? The iPhone/iPod Touch is a current gen game platform whether you like it or not. Is it designed exclusively for games? no. But which handheld got Street Fighter 4 and which ones didn't? Right.

You obviously haven't even used an iPhone to any extent, so drink a cup of shut the fuck up already. Most people with jailbroken phones don't work for shit because they don't know what they're doing and everything bogs horribly. I don't want to jailbreak because of something called ATT and me not wanting them dumping my service and leaving me with an iPhone paperweight as no other network has the structure to support all of the iPhone functions (other network 3G doesn't work the same nor is it as fast).

The iPhone is a great product, blow me. Don't cry to me because you have a Go phone.

[Da_Shocker]

I could give a rats ass about the Iphone. It took apple 3 years to finally get it right they could've got it right the first time but they know they can get away by releasing small updated phones every year and calling it a new phone. Because there loyal (foolish) customers will lap it up. I will be getting a Nokia N900 later on this year. As for Gay T&T I have never heard them dropping people service because of a jail broken phone. I'd never want to play SF4 on an Iphone nor would I want to play it on my PSP.

[gamevet]

Well, like j_factor wrote, Dreamcast was cancelled in January 2001, before Phantasy Star Online (v1!) was even released.

.

Phantasy Star Online came out in December of 2000 in Japan and January 29th in North America. The announcement for the discontinued manufacturning of the DC came 2 days later on January 31st, 2001.

[j_factor]

Phantasy Star Online came out in December of 2000 in Japan and January 29th in North America. The announcement for the discontinued manufacturning of the DC came 2 days later on January 31st, 2001.

In Europe (where he's from), it didn't come out until February.

[Melf]

Yes, Sega Rally is bland, ugly, boring, short, and heavily mediocre. It's not a good game in any sense of the word. Just about any rally racing game from that era is as good or better. I'm not speculating either, I own a complete copy of it. Speaking Sega racers, Outrun and Outrun 2 blow it away in terms of fun and Ferrari F355 Challenge blows it away with realism (the arcade version anyway, clutch+6 speed manual? yes please). Daytona USA is much better as well. If there's one genre I claim to really know through and through, it's racing games, and Sega Rally is as forgettable as they come. And don't tell me I have a bias against rally racing games either, the WRC is my favorite racing organization. Test Drive V-Rally smokes Sega Rally IMO.

The only DC racers I really enjoyed was Metropolis Street Racer, which was surpassed by Project Gotham, and Test Drive LeMans. The others just never clicked for me. Sega Rally 2 is much worse than the original, which still plays rock-solid, and DC Daytona plays like shit.

aside: can you all stop putting words in my mouth? I post a list of DC games I have while CLEARLY stating it is just the games I own, and suddenly every game on the list has to be better than every game ever made? All of you need to go to reading comprehension classes or something. Also, I say Burning Rangers looks like a shittier Jet Force Gemini and suddenly JFG is my favorite game? huh?

I think what he's trying to say is that you really need to actually PLAY BR before you compare it to shit like JFG. BR has as much in common with JFG as Chu Chu Rocket does with Call of Duty.

I have to vote Saturn, easily. The DC has a lot of great games, but most of them are available in better form on other consoles, and the ones that had online play as the major feature are no longer playable. The overall Saturn library is much larger, and it has a lot more exclusives.

I bought both at launch and owned well over 100 original games for both. I sold my DC and kept my Saturn.

[Da_Shocker]

I also must say that I have owned multiple DC due to blown controller ports. I jsut got mine out of storage a few months ago and I was about to play it until I found out that my controller ports were blown again. On the other hand I have owned only 2 Saturn's. An domestic version and and a Japanese model. I only bought the Japanese model because I knocked my first Saturn off the shelf on hardwood floor. Otherwise i'd still have it which is a stark contrast to my DC's. I will say this for pure affordability go with the DC. But if you are willing to spend the dough then go with the Saturn.

[gamevet]

My launch DC died (2 weeks after the one year extended warranty died) and my second was acting up before it was stolen.

I still have my launch Saturn though, and it's about as solid as any console I've owned.

[PimpUigi]

I guess I should chime in and say both my launch DC's are working fine.

My Saturn's internal battery has died multiple times since I got it in 2002.

The ram cart I saved my data to also died.
Saturn sad. : (

[17daysolderthannes]

I guess I should chime in and say both my launch DC's are working fine.

My Saturn's internal battery has died multiple times since I got it in 2002.

The ram cart I saved my data to also died.
Saturn sad. : (

I have a launch DC too (didn't have it since launch, but it's dated Sept 99) and it works perfectly. My Sega Sports model I bought recently also works fabulously. Something tells me Da Shocker is doing something wrong to be shorting out his controller ports so much. Sweaty hands on the plug shorting it out? I dunno, I've never had that problem with any system. Regardless, all you have to do is twist, bypass, or replace a fuse on the controller board and it will work fine again.

here's a surprisingly well done video about it (in terms of video clarity at least compared to most dungeon troll videos):



according to the Wiki, the Agetec joysticks are a common culprit for killing controller ports. Fortunately for me, I use Total Control Plus adapters with PS2 joysticks FTW.