Nintendo DS

[OldSchool]

Guntz, you fail for having that opinion, and OldSchool fails for agreeing with you. I suppose both of you were trembling with rage when Nintendo dropped support for the original Gameboy and forced you to purchase a Gameboy Color to play GBC-only games.

Oops - are either of you old enough to remember that? My bad...

I had the original B/W Gameboy... when it came out... so ummm yeah... you're dumb.

Jesus Christ, can we have a thread in Insert Coin without it degenerating into shoutfests like this?

mr mattoos ran off at the mouth first, I don't blame Guntz for snapping back


When kids open their mouths, they get slapped.

[Guntz]

I'm calling launch games anything within the 1st year. In other words, systems with big hits right out of the gate, even if they weren't available the very first day the system was sold. Compared that to, say, the XBOX 360 that had a bunch of irate customers ready to sell their systems until about 2 years after launch.

Then your definition is flawed. Everybody knows and accepts that launch games mean any software that was available on the same day as the hardware. You can say early software for anything released in the first year which is perfectly fine.

The Neo Geo was never popular, are you high? The MVS might've been popular, but MVS=/=AES in this discussion. I had never seen or heard of a Neo Geo till years after it was relevant. There was nothing fundamentally wrong with the AES other than the cost, but it proved that people weren't willing to pay 6X as much to play an arcade perfect game vs. a downsized port.

If it wasn't popular, it wouldn't have lasted 14 years on the market (1990 - 2004). Popular doesn't always equal good sales. Just because you didn't know anybody with an AES doesn't mean nobody did. Again with this problem of your experiences being a benchmark to which entire markets are compared to.

The Virtual Boy made your eyes bleed and just wasn't practical. Also, the games were short and shallow and really just played like a 3D version of 2D games.

It was largely a technical oversight. The redness wouldn't have been that much of an issue if the VB was designed as a headset with the console hardware in the controller (rather than the goggles on a stand) and wasn't hyped as having real 3D games.

The N64DD was just a disk drive, I don't see how a minor add-on could be called a system failure. IIRC, it didn't even have any additional hardware, it was just a big memory card with a couple games released for it.

That's like saying the Famicom Disk System wasn't relevant. It was hugely popular and a valid add-on. The N64DD was the total opposite, dead right out of the gate. Nintendo should never have released it.

Jesus Christ, can we have a thread in Insert Coin without it degenerating into shoutfests like this?

I don't put up with bullshit. Plain and simple. It doesn't matter how old you are, everybody's opinion matters. Anybody who thinks young people are 100% stupid and have no opinion, has no grounds to argue on as that is discrimination.

[MrMatthews]

Why the hell can't Nintendo make the original DS and DSLite compatible with the DSiWare store? Why?! That's where the idiocy lies. 32-Bit games are one matter, but a download service? You can download games on the regular PSP. Just release a damn flash card or something and download stuff to it.

Yeah, well, they didn't. If you feel so slighted that you don't have access to DSiWare, just sell your DS Lite and buy a DSi? You'll be out, what? $80?

*shrug*

I'm sure it had something to do with Nintendo's "anti-piracy" thing. They have some beef against people stealing games from them for some reason, and I think they associate flashcards with that kind of behavior. So, seeing as how the DS and DS Lite had no significant internal memory to speak of, they built one that did.

Makes sense to me.

Though concerning your argument, Nintendo released black GB cartridges that supported the enhanced GBC color palette and the original GB. THEN there were the GBC only games. Oh wait my bad, you were probably too young to remember. See what I did there?

Oh, I have tasted my own medicine and it is bitter!!!!

Thanks for elaborating on my previous statement ("when Nintendo dropped support for the original Gameboy").

I don't put up with bullshit. Plain and simple. It doesn't matter how old you are, everybody's opinion matters. Anybody who thinks young people are 100% stupid and have no opinion, has no grounds to argue on as that is discrimination.

I was actually referring more towards Oldschool with that one because he's such a punk, but thanks for clarifying your age for me.

By the way, I'm not [particularly] age-discriminist. One of the primary members of my circle of friends here is a "punk kid." I guess it depends on how you act, huh?

[Guntz]

Yeah, well, they didn't. If you feel so slighted that you don't have access to DSiWare, just sell your DS Lite and buy a DSi? You'll be out, what? $80?

Actually I use a DS Phat because the Lite is a piece of shit. The Phat is worth even less so that argument is invalid.

I'm sure it had something to do with Nintendo's "anti-piracy" thing. They have some beef against people stealing games from them for some reason, and I think they associate flashcards with that kind of behavior. So, seeing as how the DS and DS Lite had no significant internal memory to speak of, they built one that did.

Just going off on a limb here since I don't care to know about the hundreds and hundreds of different flash card formats, but isn't the DS game card proprietary? As in it has no generic reader you'd find on a computer? If so, that kills the piracy argument as people wouldn't be able to copy the data off the Nintendo DSiWare card. However, now that I think about it, do any of the GBA Flash Carts support interaction with the DS slot? If so, then nevermind all that I said.

Thanks for elaborating on my previous statement ("when Nintendo dropped support for the original Gameboy").

Please learn to read. That's all I'm asking.

When the Game Boy Color was released, there were two different formats released. One that supports both Game Boy and Game Boy Color, while the other supports only Game Boy Color.

This means that Nintendo clearly did not alienate their older consumer base with the release of the Game Boy Color. While they did not offer full support, partial is better than none, which is what's happening with the DSiWare Store.

By the way, I'm not age-discriminist. One of my main circle of friends here is a "punk kid." I guess it depends on how you act, huh?

Your replies are telling me that you are age-discriminatory. I guess it depends on how you act, huh?

As for the punk kid, you mean Metal Sonic? He seems just as bitter as the rest of you old people. I don't believe he's really that age. I could be a 50 year old woman for all you people know.

[MrMatthews]

Actually I use a DS Phat because the Lite is a piece of shit. The Phat is worth even less so that argument is invalid.

What argument? My argument? Well, thanks for the correction, then. Instead of being out $80 from two years ago you'll be out $80 from four years ago. And believe me, you aren't making me look like a fool by pointing out that you paid even less for a used DS Phat.

And if all you have is that thing, why wouldn't you get a DSi? Do you know how much more awesome it is?

Please learn to read. That's all I'm asking.

I know how to read my posts, thank you. (WTF?)

Your replies are telling me that you are age-discriminatory. I guess it depends on how you act, huh?

LOL, you got me. If you are under, say, 21, your opinions regarding any console older than the N64/PS1 are automatically invalid in my eyes. As far as I'm concerned, if you weren't an active consumer in the 90's, I don't even want to hear what you have to say about the video game market at that time. There's a difference between reading about video game history on the internet and actually being there.

Is that an asshole, elitist opinion? Yes, it is. I can't help the way I feel, even if I'll be the first to admit that I don't know half as much about video games as some of the younger people around here (TmEE).

As for the punk kid, you mean Metal Sonic? He seems just as bitter as the rest of you old people. I don't believe he's really that age. I could be a 50 year old woman for all you people know.

He's going to laugh when he reads that. I actually sent him a PM last year asking if he's really that young.

[17daysolderthannes]

Then your definition is flawed. Everybody knows and accepts that launch games mean any software that was available on the same day as the hardware. You can say early software for anything released in the first year which is perfectly fine.

Early software is vague. Early could mean anything up until the halfway point of the lifespan. Calling the first year launch is totally fair.

If it wasn't popular, it wouldn't have lasted 14 years on the market (1990 - 2004). Popular doesn't always equal good sales. Just because you didn't know anybody with an AES doesn't mean nobody did. Again with this problem of your experiences being a benchmark to which entire markets are compared to.

It's respected, but not popular, big difference. The Wii is popular, a piece of shit, but popular. The iPhone is popular. The Neo Geo AES was never popular. Popular means everyone has one. No one but a scant few arcade purists and hardcore collectors have a Neo Geo AES. While I believe SNK made a decent profit from both the system and the games (by that I mean retail markup), the sales volume is so incredibly low, there's no way they made enough to call it a "success." And what are you benchmarking it against? your made up world where everyone has a Neo Geo? Neo Geo collector forums? Get real, 99.9% of the world never knew the Neo Geo existed nor would ever pay the price to get one.

It was largely a technical oversight. The redness wouldn't have been that much of an issue if the VB was designed as a headset with the console hardware in the controller (rather than the goggles on a stand) and wasn't hyped as having real 3D games.

how would being a headset help anything? being strapped to your head rather than sitting on a table wouldn't make your eyes bleed any less. You don't even sound like you understand how the Virtual Boy works.

That's like saying the Famicom Disk System wasn't relevant. It was hugely popular and a valid add-on. The N64DD was the total opposite, dead right out of the gate. Nintendo should never have released it.

I said it's not a system. The FDS wasn't really a system, either. The FDS was just a disk drive so that you could load games from a disc instead of a cartridge, which was sort of a distant predecessor to digital distribution (you could go to stores and put new games on a disk for a nominal fee). The N64DD was like a big memory card. How can you call a disk drive a system? Besides, the N64DD allegedly only sold 15,000 units, that's hardly a release IMO. I'd call the 4MB Saturn RAM cart a bigger failure if you're going to call memory devices failures. Nevertheless, the whole point here was that new markets always take time to develop because they must be proven viable first. When they flop like the Virtual Boy and Neo Geo AES, people don't adopt them.

[Guntz]

What argument? My argument? Well, thanks for the correction, then. Instead of being out $80 from two years ago you'll be out $80 from four years ago. And believe me, you aren't making me look like a fool by pointing out that you paid even less for a used DS Phat.

No I got my DS Phat ages ago. I've tried Lites and they are garbage.

And if all you have is that thing, why wouldn't you get a DSi? Do you know how much more awesome it is?

No I have lots of other handhelds. I don't really want to pay new system price for essentially the same thing as before but with a few features tacked on.

I know how to read my posts, thank you. (WTF?)

No I meant mine *sigh*.

LOL, you got me. If you are under, say, 21, your opinions regarding any console older than the N64/PS1 are automatically invalid in my eyes. As far as I'm concerned, if you weren't an active consumer in the 90's, I don't even want to hear what you have to say about the video game market at that time. There's a difference between reading about video game history on the internet and actually being there.

I wasn't even talking about the market like how you're describing it. My mention of the FDS, NG AES, Virtual Boy and really any other system are cold hard facts. I'm not basing any of my arguments on personal experience like 17days is. So it doesn't matter if I'm 12 or something because age doesn't have anything to do with understanding real history. That's like saying a college professor isn't fit to teach about the first World War if he wasn't actually there.

Besides, if you're starting to make the ridiculous assumption that I never grew up with any system older than the PS1/N64, then think again. My folks weren't very well off so I played really old systems instead of the latest and greatest product. I had an Apple][e, then a Super Nintendo, played PC games here and there (including Sega compilations) and pretty much the entire Game Boy line. After that it was Game Cube and the rest is history, I missed my SNES so I got another one and noticed all the great stuff I missed out on. I never owned a PS1 or N64 back in the 90s, but I played a bunch of N64 at friend's houses.

Is that an asshole, elitist opinion? Yes, it is. I can't help the way I feel, even if I'll be the first to admit that I don't know half as much about video games as some of the younger people around here (TmEE).

Well at least you aren't going to be adamant about it like Knuckle Duster, so maybe you aren't shit list material after all.

He's going to laugh when he reads that. I actually sent him a PM last year asking if he's really that young.

Good, maybe I can humor the old boy so he's a little less bitter.

[Metal_Sonic]

He's going to laugh when he reads that. I actually sent him a PM last year asking if he's really that young.

And how. The truth is, when I created my account, I was off by 10 years. I was without my glasses and I can't see shit without my glasses. Because of this, what I thought was 1982 was actually 1992. I saw my mistake and shrugged. I don't care, I don't believe age matters really, the Genesis don't discriminate.

ORRRRRRRRRRRRRR I could be fraudin right now by saying I'm 27, not 17.

As for the punk kid, you mean Metal Sonic? He seems just as bitter as the rest of you old people. I don't believe he's really that age. I could be a 50 year old woman for all you people know.

lol, this kid is mad. He's shitlisting everybody and by god, it's terrifying me.

[17daysolderthannes]

My mention of the FDS, NG AES, Virtual Boy and really any other system are cold hard facts. I'm not basing any of my arguments on personal experience like 17days is.

I know this stuff from personal experience and "cold hard facts," you can kiss my ass if you think you know shit about any of this. Where is your awesome AES and Virtual Boy data coming from, huh? forums do not give a good indication of market prominence. Everyone on a game forum is going to know about the Virtual Boy and AES, in the real world, no one has a clue (at least about the AES). Go ahead, walk into a GameStop and ask an average person that looks like he showers and has been laid at least once in his life what a Neo Geo AES is, $10 says he has no fucking clue.

[ApolloBoy]

I don't put up with bullshit. Plain and simple. It doesn't matter how old you are, everybody's opinion matters. Anybody who thinks young people are 100% stupid and have no opinion, has no grounds to argue on as that is discrimination.

That still doesn't give you the right to go tell people to fuck themselves and call them fags.

[Guntz]

Multi-post police can suck it. I'm not editing my previous post to fit 17days into it.

Early software is vague. Early could mean anything up until the halfway point of the lifespan. Calling the first year launch is totally fair.

Huh? How does early = half way? I call it early, mid and then late life. If "early" is such a vague word for you, maybe you should just use "first year" instead of launch.

It's respected, but not popular, big difference. The Wii is popular, a piece of shit, but popular. The iPhone is popular. The Neo Geo AES was never popular. Popular means everyone has one. No one but a scant few arcade purists and hardcore collectors have a Neo Geo AES. While I believe SNK made a decent profit from both the system and the games (by that I mean retail markup), the sales volume is so incredibly low, there's no way they made enough to call it a "success." And what are you benchmarking it against? your made up world where everyone has a Neo Geo? Neo Geo collector forums? Get real, 99.9% of the world never knew the Neo Geo existed nor would ever pay the price to get one.

Alright, you got me on the "popular" part, but what are you smoking to think that the NEO-GEO sold poorly? It didn't sell THAT bad. I bet it sold better than the Jaguar counting all regions. My world counts the probability of sales since there are no official sales reports. Not my local area where maybe one guy or two owned one. Anybody who knew about the MVS hardware had to have known about the AES. Didn't sell great yes, unknown no.

how would being a headset help anything? being strapped to your head rather than sitting on a table wouldn't make your eyes bleed any less. You don't even sound like you understand how the Virtual Boy works.

EDIT: put down p instead of o in "quote"

A headset would mean you could sit any way you want without having to bend over and look into the mounted goggles. That's one of the most common complaints. If you remove that, the overall console isn't so unbearable. Also, I know that the technology chosen for the Virtual Boy required a massive block of plastic to hold everything, but if Nintendo had rumored the release of a headstrap for the console, why the hell not release the system as a headset anyway?

I said it's not a system. The FDS wasn't really a system, either. The FDS was just a disk drive so that you could load games from a disc instead of a cartridge, which was sort of a distant predecessor to digital distribution (you could go to stores and put new games on a disk for a nominal fee). The N64DD was like a big memory card. How can you call a disk drive a system? Besides, the N64DD allegedly only sold 15,000 units, that's hardly a release IMO. I'd call the 4MB Saturn RAM cart a bigger failure if you're going to call memory devices failures.

You see, the DSiWare Store is very comparable to the FDS and N64DD. The Store is not a system, it's a format in which games are released. Same with the FDS and N64DD. Now before you call foul on me saying these two things are one and the same because they still alienate the original userbase, don't forget that the DSi is essentially a normal DS but with some built in memory for storing games. The FDS was a necessary add-on to facilitate the kind of games Nintendo wanted to release. At launch, the FDS was NOT a Famicom system with a disk drive instead of an add-on. The DSi is essentially a Famicom with a built in disk drive, a total money grab. How you ask? Because in this comparison, the Disk drive is essentially the flash card idea I presented earlier. It means a consumer can buy a Nintendo DSi Game Card for regular DS systems without having to shell out for a new system, while new adopters can dive right into the DSi instead of buying the DS and DSi Card. Applying this to the Famicom comparison, it'd be like releasing a Famicom with built-in disk drive instead of the add-on. Anybody who wants to buy the FDS games would have to re-buy the original hardware instead of being able to buy an add-on and (hopefully) save a bit of money. I hope this isn't too long for the rest of you to read, that would make for an easy cop out to avoid my argument.

Nevertheless, the whole point here was that new markets always take time to develop because they must be proven viable first. When they flop like the Virtual Boy and Neo Geo AES, people don't adopt them.

My point is that it's a little silly to be prejudice towards a new system if it hasn't been tried yet. You don't know if it will be a success or not. Virtual Reality hasn't been seen again because of the Virtual Boy's failure, game companies have a valid reason for doing so. But at this point in time, IMO it's about damn time to try it again since the technology has VASTLY improved AND the market has changed once again. The last example of Virtual Reality's market performance has been made obsolete.

[Guntz]

lol, this kid is mad. He's shitlisting everybody and by god, it's terrifying me.

The only person I really think is an asshole is Knuckle Duster. I won't track him and constantly remind him of being one since I'm not insane, but his opinions do not hold a lot of water right off the bat in any situation. I think MrMatthews has redeemed himself a bit but if he makes another kid crack, back on the list he goes.

Also, I'm sure you're thinking Guntz is a pretentious little ass, but you really don't want to say it.

I know this stuff from personal experience and "cold hard facts," you can kiss my ass if you think you know shit about any of this. Where is your awesome AES and Virtual Boy data coming from, huh? forums do not give a good indication of market prominence. Everyone on a game forum is going to know about the Virtual Boy and AES, in the real world, no one has a clue (at least about the AES). Go ahead, walk into a GameStop and ask an average person that looks like he showers and has been laid at least once in his life what a Neo Geo AES is, $10 says he has no fucking clue.

Now why would I ask somebody who's only game experience has been with the Xbox 360 or PS3? No crap he's not gonna know what a NEO-GEO is. You're angling your argument so that it favors your view instead of mine. I see what you did there.

That still doesn't give you the right to go tell people to fuck themselves and call them fags.

He already flung mud at me, how else would he understand that what he said was 100% wrong?

[ApolloBoy]

He already flung mud at me, how else would he understand that what he said was 100% wrong?

It doesn't help if you fling around insults. Just because someone does it to you doesn't make it alright to do the same thing back.

[MrMatthews]

No I have lots of other handhelds. I don't really want to pay new system price for essentially the same thing as before but with a few features tacked on.

Well, it's your choice. But know this: the DSi is lighter, thinner, and more comfortable to hold. It also has a larger, brighter screen and better battery life. And it has such-and-such MB of internal memory and a memory card slot to store DSiWare games.

So much more than a DS Phat with a "few" features tacked on.

[Guntz]

It doesn't help if you fling around insults. Just because someone does it to you doesn't make it alright to do the same thing back.

You sound like a parent. Regardless yes I understand what you're getting at. Believe it or not I'm not some worthless stain on society, I do have some moral fiber. I apologize for calling MrMatthews a grumpy old fag and to go fuck himself, even if he still thinks I'm "a no-nothing kid". To some racism sets them off, me it's age discrimination.

Well, it's your choice. But know this: the DSi is lighter, thinner, and more comfortable to hold. It also has a larger, brighter screen and better battery life. And it has such-and-such MB of internal memory and a memory card slot to store DSiWare games.

So much more than a DS Phat with a "few" features tacked on.

My concerns don't revolve around features. The selling points for any handheld system to me are simple things, like how comfy is it? How are the buttons? The D-Pad? Does it break easily? Is the plastic of good quality? All of those things are crap on the DSLite. If the DSi is the same as the DSLite in those regards, I'm never buying one.

EDIT: Anyway, I can't describe what's wrong with the DSi in any further detail. I can't write a 5 page essay on one little thing to try and get my clear and straight forward point across. I don't care to further the AES and Virtual Boy arguments so 17days will be alone on that one. I'm not getting another infraction or possible temporary banning. I happen to like it here and I'm going to try and contribute to the site. Sorry for all the melodrama I helped perpetuate, I don't want to drive this retarded argument into the ground.

We sure seem to have a lot of retarded arguments here all of a sudden. I dislike something and somebody cries blue bloody murder.