Differences between Euro gamers and American gamers?

[kool kitty89]

Edit: please see this discussion to continue the home computer topic: http://sega-16.com/forum/showthread.php?t=12845

I think that at the time people were more interested on getting something cheap rather than judging its hardware and capabilities: the Amstrad CPC was way more powerful than the Speccy (going to the basics: Z80 chip and 3-channel sound), and still, in some countries, wasn't as popular.

In that previous thread I mentioned, it was argued that the CPC's choppier scrolling was a disadvantage to the speccy, though I rather disagree honestly.

The CPU on the Speccy is only slightly slower than the CPC's anyway (3.5 MHz vs 4 MHz -and the MSX/SG-1000/Colecovision/SMS's 3.58 MHz though all the latter have hardware sprites and the SMS has hardware scrolling), the sound was mitigated once the Spectrum 128 became popular though.

But yeah, you wouldn't go by hardware, you'd go by how games looked, sounded, and played, or the amount of games it had. (or other software/accessories if you were looking for more than just a games machines)
With the cheaper electronics market in the US, I don't think the Speccy would have necessarily done as well (the closest contemporary would probably be the CoCo in terms of hardware design concept, but that was 1980, not 1982), plus you had a lot of established competition regardless. (then Commodore's price war came in 1983 and had a huge impact)
I think the US economy was stronger at the time too, so cost wasn't as critical. (but as it was there were a lot of affordable consoles and computers -and the VIC-20 too, but that ended up sort of a joke among the computer community of the time -or at least in hindsight it has, and was more or less a diversion tactic from Commodore to get into the retail consumer home computer market before the C64 was ready -and quickly dumped the VIC afterward)

There's a running joke in Spain about the limitations of the Speccy: "Man, this game is awesome: graphics are lame, sound is awful and it has no replay value, but it includes brown colored sprites!!!" Overall, it's really great to see how programmers got the best of the Speccy to make it the gaming machine of choice in half a continent.

There were no sprites. Had there been sprites, it could have looked a LOT better. (like an MSX1 with weak sound, somewhat worse/gaudy colors -for most game types- and less choppy scrolling in many cases -but a lot more screen tearing instead)

The Spectrum was awesome, with so many great classic games its untrue, and it was cheap. It got many people in to gaming and produced a lot of programmers. Jet Pack, Manic Minner were just the best back in the day, but I guess it was a British thing

I do look at some games that do well in the USA and wonder what the hell. I mean how the hell can drivel like Cruisin USA, Superman 64 sell so well ? . There again I never hot how Twisted Metal sold so well , when its just utter crap . But there you must look at sales of the likes of Brian Lara 96, Football Manager and wonder what the hell

Huh? Why do you bring up N64 games in the context of 1980s 8-bit computer games??? Why not compare contemporary 8-bit computer games in the US? (C64, A8, Apple II, CoCo, etc -or getting into 16-bit computers you had the ST, Amiga, and eventually PC/Clones becoming more common for games -not including the massive console market, of course)

And obviously there was a lot more than the Spectrum in Europe. (BBC Micro, CPC, MSX, C64 etc -and 16-bit computers; though Acorn botched their chance to get in on the lower-end market with the Electron's launch -in hindsight it seems like it might have been in their interests to not even bother with the Electron but continue focus more on the Micro)


But what's with the Superman 64 comment? What ever gave you the idea it was especially popular? (Cruisin USA, granted, is a pretty common game though always mediocre -I don'r remember it being thought of as anything special at the time and I haven't seen any particularly popular reviews -though that's not often necessarily a good measure, even for popular opinion for console or computer games then or now -I'm reminded of Ashen's Renegade 3 review )

Frontier: Elite 2 shat on Wing Commander. And although not a contemporary, Broken Sword was a pretty f*cking good point 'n' click.

That's extremely arguable and Elite and Elite 2 are totally different kinds of game though. (more like Wing Commander Privateer)
And of course, Frontier was on PC as well (but my previous comments weren't really aimed at PC centric stuff at all... Monkey Island was great on Amiga and fine on ST too from all I've seen -both better than EGA on the PC, and especially PC speaker -lat alone CGA, again that wasn't my point). My point was just some examples of western vs Japanese developed games at the time in response to a previous comment. http://sega-16.com/forum/showpost.ph...5&postcount=25
By no means was I intending to jab against EU/UK developed games, but again, responding to the comment about North American/European vs Japanese games of the time in general. (the time corresponding to the game examples of the topic post)

Wing commander was on the Amiga too, but ran poorly without a 68030, I believe. (even the 1200/CD-32 run it pretty choppy)

That aside, Elite 2 is NOT contemporary to Wing Commander, Elite 2 is contemporary to X-Wing, Wong Commander Privateer, and Doom as it was released in 1993. (Wing Commander III came in 1994, so that's not a fair contemporary)

The Speccy 48k cost the equivalent of $260 USD when it was released in 1982, and was reduced to $190 not long after. It cost half the price of the C64 and let's not even compare how much an IBM would've cost you in 1982.

http://sega-16.com/forum/showthread.php?t=12845
I already mentioned we'd gone over this before.

The Speccy didn't really start to become a major game platform until 1984 from what I understand (I'm not sure on the exact details), or any home computer for that matter. (building up a bit before that from what I understand, with some others like the BBC micro being a bit more popular early on -given the older age it makes sense)
But in the US, the 16k Atari 400 was under $200 by the end of 1982 I believe, though the 800 and C64 were still a bit pricier (48k 800 was still around $500 I think and C64 launched at $600) though that dropped fast with Commodore's price war the following year and several others were forced to follow or leave the market. (and that's not including game consoles)

-up to that point, for color home computers in the US you had the Apple II (1977), Atari 400/800 (1979), VIC20 (1981), Tandy CoCo (1980), TI 99/4 (1979), and the new C64. (I'm not sure how all of those were priced in 1982 though)
By '83, the lower-cost Atari 600 and 800XL were released (the 1200XL in '82 isn't really applicable in the low-cost category) with older 400 and 800 being discontinued (800 was dropped under $400 during that time, not sure how the 400 or XL machines corresponded), Commodore dropped the C64 to $200 and the VIC-20 below $100, and direct competition was hit hard, either matching price or leaving -and correspondingly dumping the price while clearing inventory.
I'm also unsure of how the low-end Apple II models compared in price: I know it was initially expensive and later high-end models were pricey (as apple products tended to be with exceptions of student/educational deals), but I'm really not sure of the low-end units. (hardware wise, it and the coco are probably closest to the Spectrum 16k/48k/plus in general terms -the coco had a 6-bit DAC rather than a beeper though so it had volume control at least -I don't think it had hardware timers though, so like the Speccy and Apple II, not even hardware square waves like the PC speaker)
The Apple II wasn't in full direct competition with the C64 though as it had established niches already and was an established platform (atari had that too to some extent but screwed up big time in '82 and '83, plus was more in line with the C64's market as well) The Apple II also had clones appearing on the market, so that would drive prices down for the lowest end stuff at least. (at least for the clones)


The IBM PC was really a non-issue at the time, with a professional/business emphasis, poor hardware for gaming, and (unlike the Spectrum) a very high price tag -plus the common business machines initially opted for MDA graphics, not CGA, so games were practically nil that ran on those machines -aside from text games. (it did get some early games sheerly do to market share, but by far was not a gaming platform -the PC Jr and Tandy 1000 boosted that a lot along with PC clones getting ever cheaper -PCJr and Tandy 1000 still had the best graphics and sound for the PC/clone family up until EGA and Adlib became popular for games around 1987/88 -and still behind the Amiga though not so much the ST anymore)
But leave that for the other dedicated thread I posted if you want to continue it.

[Team Andromeda]

Why do you bring up N64 games in the context of 1980s 8-bit computer games??? Why not compare contemporary 8-bit computer games in the US? (C64, A8, Apple II, CoCo, etc -or getting into 16-bit computers you had the ST, Amiga, and eventually PC/Clones becoming more common for games -not including the massive console market, of course)

Because in the 1980's I had no idea or really cared what sold well in the rest of world. In the 1990's when I became older, and gaming magazines reported more and more what sold and did well in different parts of the world, that changed.

And obviously there was a lot more than the Spectrum in Europe. (BBC Micro, CPC, MSX, C64 etc -and 16-bit computers; though Acorn botched their chance to get in on the lower-end market with the Electron's launch -in hindsight it seems like it might have been in their interests to not even bother with the Electron but continue focus more on the Micro)

Can we stop the history lessons ?. I'm well aware for the other machines that were out at the time, thank you very much. I tell you for the last time, I'm a keen gamer and have been since 1984, do not need patronizing history lessons on consoles or 80's computing gaming . I would have died for a BBC Micro and a copy of ELITE, but my parents simply couldn't afford it at the time, so I had a ZX 128k Spectrum instead and loved it . It games line up was incredible imo, far better than the C64. The year earlier, I had a Intellivision (my 1st ever console) and Philips GX7000 (in a shop closing down sale). I have been in to gaming for a very long time now.

But what's with the Superman 64 comment? What ever gave you the idea it was especially popular?

Gaming mag's at the time reported that it was top sell for its 1st 2 months.

[bigladiesman]

Woah, man, all this data and comparisons will be very useful on the series about the history of home videogames I'm publishing on my blog.

However, I have to say that with its limitations, Speccy will always be my fav gaming microcomputer, because it was MY gaming microcomputer. I would start singing "Memories", but getting sued by Andrew Lloyd Webber and/or Barbara Streisand can't be a good thing .

[kool kitty89]

Because in the 1980's I had no idea or really cared what sold well in the rest of world. In the 1990's when I became older, and gaming magazines reported more and more what sold and did well in different parts of the world, that changed.

OK, but that's still not a fair comparison at all...

If you're going to reference the Spectrum, you should compare it to contemporaries regardless of anecdotal experience.

Can we stop the history lessons ?. I'm well aware for the other machines that were out at the time, thank you very much. I tell you for the last time, I'm a keen gamer and have been since 1984, do not need patronizing history lessons on consoles or 80's computing gaming . I would have died for a BBC Micro and a copy of ELITE, but my parents simply couldn't afford it at the time, so I had a ZX 128k Spectrum instead and loved it . It games line up was incredible imo, far better than the C64. The year earlier, I had a Intellivision (my 1st ever console) and Philips GX7000 (in a shop closing down sale). I have been in to gaming for a very long time now.

Not lessons (I assumed you knew most of that), but just expressing my point in more detail: and if you had any corrections or objections that would be helpful as well.

And again, it's a bit of a shame Acorn screwed up with a low cost micro... (the Speccy was better for most stuff than the Electron -especially the 128k once games starrted commonly supporting the sound, even the Micro has limitations compared to the Speccy -RAM- and the audio was pretty similar and the CPC had some notable advantages -and that's not taking the A8, C64, MSX, etc into account)
The Speccy got a rather good version of Elite, didn't it? (and the Atari 8-bit as I recall; I'd imagine the platforms without bitmap modes had more trouble: NES, MSX, C64, etc -plus C64 had a slower CPU on top of that -not to mention the upgraded Amiga/ST/Archimedes versions)

Gaming mag's at the time reported that it was top sell for its 1st 2 months.

Umm, top selling doesn't mean anyone thinks it's good: it means it's been well advertised, hyped, and/or produced in quantity.
Especially given the 1 or 2 months context.
You have lots of bad game selling well even more so in previous generations with less information of real quality abound for both consoles and computers.

And from what I've seen, it's most certainly not limited to North America.
And then, of course, you have some games that may have been OK to mediocre back then, but seem like crap now. Superman is not that case though, it was ugly and broken then and it's even more ugly and just as broken now.
You had games on consoles and computers in the 80s as well, though off the top of my head, I can't really think of one as universally bad that was apparently hyped like Super Man. (ET is not nearly as bad by far, and it's more of an average game for the time, made mediocre by some small bugs and possibly poor instructions, it was a really dumb buisness move by Warner to pay so much and then make so many carts with the assumption to sell it, but that's another matter and more of an indication of the bureaucratic mess that Atari Inc/Warner management was)
Interestingly, ET Phone Home on the A8-bit (just as rushed and released in 1982) is rather impressive for the time: another adventure game but much broader and more detailed, plus using the vertical and horizontal hardware scrolling of the console. (and a little bit of voice)

Woah, man, all this data and comparisons will be very useful on the series about the history of home videogames I'm publishing on my blog.

However, I have to say that with its limitations, Speccy will always be my fav gaming microcomputer, because it was MY gaming microcomputer. I would start singing "Memories", but getting sued by Andrew Lloyd Webber and/or Barbara Streisand can't be a good thing .

You might want to poke around some home computer forums for additional information too: for atari in particular Curt Vendel and Marty Goldberg (wgungfu) on Atariage are experts on all the Atari history. (writing some books on that, and Curt's site is Atarimuseum, though some info isn't fully updated on all the more recent stuff -and I think some details they're leaving for the book after all)

The amount of misinformation an myths surrounding Atari alone which have been corrected/disproved is enough to make me question a lot of "common knowledge" about most other parts of the industry short of direct facts, figures, and quotes. (even then there's a lot of here say -like that which promoted the rumor that Jack Tramiel put games on the back burner and shelved the 7800: it's a lot more complex than that -in the 7800's case it was a conflict of ownership with Warner and Atari Corp as the 7800 was contracted to Warner and thus not technically sold to Tramiel along with the rest of the consumer holdings)

[bigladiesman]

You might want to poke around some home computer forums for additional information too: for atari in particular Curt Vendel and Marty Goldberg (wgungfu) on Atariage are experts on all the Atari history. (writing some books on that, and Curt's site is Atarimuseum, though some info isn't fully updated on all the more recent stuff -and I think some details they're leaving for the book after all)

The amount of misinformation an myths surrounding Atari alone which have been corrected/disproved is enough to make me question a lot of "common knowledge" about most other parts of the industry short of direct facts, figures, and quotes. (even then there's a lot of here say -like that which promoted the rumor that Jack Tramiel put games on the back burner and shelved the 7800: it's a lot more complex than that -in the 7800's case it was a conflict of ownership with Warner and Atari Corp as the 7800 was contracted to Warner and thus not technically sold to Tramiel along with the rest of the consumer holdings)

Thanks, man!!! I check AtariAge, Atarimuseum and Atari Gaming HQ quite often, but I didn't know what users were the most informed ones, apart fom Keita Iida at Atari GHQ (and just now I was about to send the chapter about A5200. Stop the press!!!). BTW, didn't know about the rights dispute over the 7800, neither.

[kool kitty89]

Yeah, the Atari 7800 thing was among the many things uncovered and set-straight more recently. (before that Curt and Marty hadn't been any the wiser on that subject either -especially with accounts from former GCC members supporting the previously assumed events)
They're the most informed and hard working historians involved with the video game industry that I know of (there seems to be a bit more in the home computer/electronics industry in general -and Commodore in particular has been rather well covered in some comprehensive books).

There's a lot of recent stuff from the last year or so: like more information about the Silver & Gold/Rainbow/Sierra/Gaza/Gump chipsets coming to light (advanced 16-bit computer designed fully prototyped at Atari inc but shelved during reorganization in 1983 and largely lost due to the mess surrounding Warner's mismanaged sale to Tramiel -Warner definitely seems much more at fault to be honest, indeed, I'm sure Jack would have loved to have some of the designs and engineers onboard that ended up leaving in the mess)
There's the 7800 sales figures for the US (~3.77 million sold total from 1986-1990 -after returns)

Then there's the real information on the 3200/Sylvia design from 1980/81 canceled in favor of the quick-fix 5200. (the previous vague description of the "10-bit" 3200 turned out to be totally false and was in fact a hybrid 2600/A8-bit with compatibility, and enhanced TIA replacing GTIA, RIOT for I/O instead of TIA, no POKEY -not sure if S-TIA added more sound- and 2 kB of SRAM -not positive why they switched from DRAM, and seems to have been canceled not due to programming difficulty, but time constraints and increasing competition)
It makes me wonder why they went with the rather kludged 5200 design rather than a real quick-fix implementation of the 3200 concept that just put TIA and GTIA onboard instead of designing S-TIA, but otherwise keeping it similar. (that would have been the closest approximation of the original 3200 plan to manage on a tighter schedule -and it's not like later revisions couldn't have further integrated things)
http://www.atariage.com/forums/topic...ss1000-sylvia/
http://www.atarimuseum.com/videogame...ia/sylvia.html

I might have missed some more too, but the Sylvia thing was the most recent big update iirc.

[Team Andromeda]

OK, but that's still not a fair comparison at all...

If you're going to reference the Spectrum, you should compare it to contemporaries regardless of anecdotal experience.

I'm sorry when you're like 4 to 5 years old. Do fair comparisons, keeping up to date with machines the world over, and the World charts wasn't really on my Radar, or I guess reporting that much (this was the early 1980's) . I knew about , and of rival machines, but as to what was selling well in the USA, Japan, which nationality each corp . I didn't really think about that I till I got just a little bit older and wiser, and it was reported better in gaming mag's (around the time of the Master System UK launch)

Not lessons (I assumed you knew most of that), but just expressing my point in more detail: and if you had any corrections or objections that would be helpful as well

I don't not need history lessons . I was well aware of rivals to the ZX ECT. I went with the Spectrum not as some anti American snub, but because I loved playing Jet Pack and Manic Minner, most of my mates had the system (so it was easy to borrow games) and also because it was at a price point my Parents could afford. It really was that simple .

The Speccy got a rather good version of Elite, didn't it?

It did, but it wasn't a Patch on the BBC Micro version. My mate had one and playing that on his BBC was simply incredible at the time , but the BBC Micro cost a fortune at the time .

Umm, top selling doesn't mean anyone thinks it's good: it means it's been well advertised, hyped, and/or produced in quantity.

Ummm, Not where I did I say good sales must = the game is good ?. I'm just saying there some games the Americans seem to like that we don't and so on . Why does it seem a lot of Americans loves the likes of Twisted Metal, Cruisin USA but never liked the likes of TOCA or Colin McRae onthe PS, when the're some of the best racers ever made, and you like NASCAR (which is one of the dullest sports around ) over F1

They again you must wonder why sport games like Cricket and Rugby sell ok overhere . You know the difference between Euro and American gamers

[bigladiesman]

Why does it seem a lot of Americans loves the likes of Twisted Metal, Cruisin USA but never liked the likes of TOCA or Colin McRae onthe PS

That's quite true. But as you point, I guess it's more a social issue than a gaming one. I just adored Colin McRae Rally on the PS1: My fav car was that oldie... It was a Ford, I think. And the Lancia Delta Integrale KICKED ASS!!!

[Rusty Venture]

Why does it seem a lot of Americans loves the likes of Twisted Metal, Cruisin USA but never liked the likes of TOCA or Colin McRae onthe PS

Now this is a personal opinion, not really reflective of the majority of American gamers.

I drive damn near every day, why do I wanna play a game that tries to replicate that?

Also, despite how realistic a racing game is, it will never replicate the "feeling" of driving. Feel of the road or the feeling when you are taking that corner too fast. Rumble function and squealing tires audio are not a reasonable facsimile.

I'd rather play a driving game that is less realistic and more fun, because the real deal isn't.

[kool kitty89]

That's quite true. But as you point, I guess it's more a social issue than a gaming one. I just adored Colin McRae Rally on the PS1: My fav car was that oldie... It was a Ford, I think. And the Lancia Delta Integrale KICKED ASS!!!

Well, for one, it's going to be localization and familiarity: even if you have a game in a similar genre (say road/touring or rally racing in this case), a European-centric roster of drivers, cars, and locations, wouldn't be as attractive to the majority of US (or Japanese, etc) mainstream users, though might be appealing to fans of that category in general.

Something that was either inclusive of international cars/tracks, or US/North America-centric would be much more applicable for mainstream users. (again, real fans of Touring/Rally racing likely would be quite interested in the EU/UK specific stuff too)

I mean, Gran Turismo (and GT2) was HUGE for the PlayStation in the US, and again, that's one of the few (if not the only) PlayStation game we got back in the day. (the reason we bought Bleem -had it not been a PSX exclusive, that would have been a non-issue -ie get the PC version) In fact, it was the best selling game worldwide on the Playstation, period. It would be interesting to see a regional breakdown of those sales though.

I'm sorry when you're like 4 to 5 years old. Do fair comparisons, keeping up to date with machines the world over, and the World charts wasn't really on my Radar, or I guess reporting that much (this was the early 1980's) . I knew about , and of rival machines, but as to what was selling well in the USA, Japan, which nationality each corp . I didn't really think about that I till I got just a little bit older and wiser, and it was reported better in gaming mag's (around the time of the Master System UK launch)

Exactly why you shouldn't make such comparisons... if you're going by personal experience only, then talk about contemporaries (ie games popular on the N64 in Europe at that time).
That's my point: If you wanted to comment about 80s/early 90s computer games and didn't have personal experience: either go by what you've heard/read from other people and articles or it doesn't make sense at all.

I don't not need history lessons . I was well aware of rivals to the ZX ECT. I went with the Spectrum not as some anti American snub, but because I loved playing Jet Pack and Manic Minner, most of my mates had the system (so it was easy to borrow games) and also because it was at a price point my Parents could afford. It really was that simple .

Again, I wasn't trying to give a histroy lesson, but explain the POV of my argument and leave that information open for you to critique and for others in this topic to possibly comment on or draw from. (as seen above, the latter already happened)

Ummm, Not where I did I say good sales must = the game is good ?. I'm just saying there some games the Americans seem to like that we don't and so on . Why does it seem a lot of Americans loves the likes of Twisted Metal, Cruisin USA but never liked the likes of TOCA or Colin McRae onthe PS, when the're some of the best racers ever made, and you like NASCAR (which is one of the dullest sports around ) over F1

The examples you gave aren't very good as they're not very well liked games in the US. (Crusin' USA on the N64 was decent for the system ony due to the general lack of better racing games on it at the time, not good as a game in and of itself, but what N64 owners would have been stuck with -even graphics wise, it's not really impressive compared to contemprorary Saturn or PSX offerings)

I haven't played those touring car games, but they definitaly look right up my alley... I never claimed to really like Nascar over other racing types, and in the case of the oval tracks and such, it really is rather boring. The road/touring tracks are what are much more interesting: Sears Point, Laguna Seca, etc. (that's the type of racing my dad actually did -SCCA in improved Touring Type A -ITA class, might go back to it though it's been 5 years since he's raced).
Unless you're referring to American racing in general.

Twisted Metal

Which isn't a racing game but a vehicle combat game, so a totally different category. (more like a non-kiddie version of Mario Kart or such -empahsis on the battle stages rather than racing as well though) It's a party game, like kart racers basically.
Something like the Burn Out games is closer to mainstream arcade/sim racing, but still a distinct category.

Gran Turismo would be a much, much better comparison. (even if it's a higher profile game) That's the reason we got Bleem back int he day.

They again you must wonder why sport games like Cricket and Rugby sell ok overhere . You know the difference between Euro and American gamers

A big part of that is tradition though, and region for sure: the US is huge and you have a huge different in such trends by region (including sports). Soccer is a lot bigger than it used to be and I don't think baseball is anything like it was in the past in the US as a whole.
In my case in particular, I wasn't so much interested in sports, but I distinctly remember Soccer always being one of the most significant sports at school. (going back to early grade school I most distinctly remember kids almost always playing soccer in the field during recess) I don't know if that's just the area I live in or not though.

I personally find Soccer a lot more interesting than American football (both to watch and play -though, again, I'm not so much into playing). I used to be into baseball a fair bit, but never really that much (and I think part of it was just the interest in some fo the equipment ).

I was a lot more into Tennis growing up (with my dad and grandpa), haven't played in about a year now. I did star golfing a bit over a year ago.
Interesting that I always found tennis and Golf video games the only sports video games I was really interested in too for that matter. (tennis not so much until 3D, but Golf games were fun on the NES -I remember playing with my mom back in the mid 90s) That's excluding racing games as "sports."



Historically, some of those stereotypes might have applied a lot more than they do now. (though I know football is still big regardless, many sports that were less popular have become big in some regions and some others have declined a bit -again Baseball in particular)

[Team Andromeda]

Now this is a personal opinion, not really reflective of the majority of American gamers.

I drive damn near every day, why do I wanna play a game that tries to replicate that?

If we were talking about Forza or GT I could understand that point . Not sure, but I don't think many Rally to work every day . The early Colin McRae games were fun, while being semi realistic(like Rally on the Saturn)

If you wanted to comment about 80s/early 90s computer games and didn't have personal experience:

I see you comment a lot on the Mega Drive and Mega CD, whitest saying you got into the systems every late it, long after the system had been dropped . What's the difference ? .
I was gaming since 1984 and knew of and about rival machines (C64, CBS ECT, and my older brother had an Atari) Just at the time I wasn't interested in world wide gaming charts, or the nationality of corps , how many 4 years old are ?

I mean, Gran Turismo (and GT2) was HUGE for the PlayStation in the US, and again, that's one of the few

GT was HUGE the world over . Rally was never big inthe USA, and now Codemasters have butchered Colin McRae (with its dirt load of crap) in an effort to get sales in the USA, Never understood why F1 didn't do better inthe USA either of the PS .

Crusin' USA on the N64 was decent for the system ony due to the general lack of better racing games on it at the time, not good as a game in and of itself, but what N64 owners would have been stuck with -even graphics wise, it's not really impressive compared to contemprorary Saturn or PSX offerings

Crusin USA did well in the USA Arcades did it not . Over here the game was panned, and didn't sell that great . Yet many Americans loved it, God knows why ...

I never claimed to really like Nascar over other racing types, and in the case of the oval tracks and such, it really is rather boring.

I'm speaking in general. I don't like Cricket, but its a sport that does well over here. Just being general

Which isn't a racing game but a vehicle combat game, so a totally different category

You can put in to what every category you want, the game is still poor (Ps versions) . Yet Americans liked it for some reason

[Elliotw2]

Ummm, Not where I did I say good sales must = the game is good ?. I'm just saying there some games the Americans seem to like that we don't and so on . Why does it seem a lot of Americans loves the likes of Twisted Metal, Cruisin USA but never liked the likes of TOCA or Colin McRae onthe PS, when the're some of the best racers ever made, and you like NASCAR (which is one of the dullest sports around ) over F1

I find it really hard to compare Twisted Metal against Colin McRae, considering they are almost two completely different genres of games. The only thing that could let you say them in the same sentence is that both of them have vehicles with at 4 wheels that go forward and turn.

Part of the reason that you don't hear as much about the more realistic racing games in the US is because they aren't really advertised as much. Twisted Metal gets advertising money and sales because it features an ice cream truck that shoots rockets at other cars. Colin McRae I don't remember ever hearing of until 2005 on the PC.

edit:

You can put in to what every category you want, the game is still poor (Ps versions) . Yet Americans liked it for some reason

Twisted Metal isn't a bad game, by any means. It was reviewed well across the world, it played well when it was new, and it still plays well. Twisted Metal 2 is one of the best PS1 games.

[kool kitty89]

Crusin USA did well in the USA Arcades did it not . Over here the game was panned, and didn't sell that great . Yet many Americans loved it, God knows why ...

Don't know: I don't know any arcade goers from that time (of any age), and I haven't really heard/read much about that.
I also didn't know anyone who owned it... or if any of them did, they at least never played it or talked about it.
Apparently the N64 game took a hit in terms of gameplay quality compared to the arcade version (let alone graphics), but one thing that could have driven popularity of the Arcade game was the fact that it came out in 1994 and looked great at the time... now if it was still popular in arcades in 1996 or 1997, that would be another issue, but if it was a short term hit in '94/95 tied to graphics, that's another entirely.

I'd always gotten the impression that Crusin' USA on the N64 was considered rather mediocre though. (granted, none of that came from people I knew back in the mid/late 90s as I don't remember anyone playing it or talking about it)

Can you think of any USA-centric raging games in that more realistic style in a touring or rally setting that were unpopular in Europe?

Again, in some cases, lack of popularity is simply down to marketing. (ie without good publicity it's really hard to get popular regardless of how good it is)

That still doesn't explain listing Super Man 64 either.

You can put in to what every category you want, the game is still poor (Ps versions) . Yet Americans liked it for some reason

It's not a great game, but it's a decent game in its category. I actually played it for the first time last Sunday over at a friend's house and had a fair amount of fun, but I didn't play long enough to really get into it. (didn't really get used to the controls, didn't try more than 2 cars, only tried 2 arenas, etc)

It reminds me of Cell Damage or the battle sections in Mario Kart 64 and Diddy Kong racing, though I didn't really play long enough to get a good idea of how they compare overall. The weapons used made it a lot more like Cell Damage though. (except the car took a lot more damage and you only had one life per round) The lack of 4 player is obviously a big loss compared to those N64 games though,

I'd say it's more fun than the battle mode in Super Mario Kart (SNES) for sure. (SMK is best for Racing)


Then again, you have some strange aversion to Episode 1 Racer that I really can't understand. (unless you never got past the learning curve of the controls or something... especially if you're talking about the PC version or the PC port on the Dreamcast which have mappable controls -some of the N64's controls are indeed a bit annoying -namely having tilt on left and right C buttons rather than R or Z or something like that -I don't think Z even does anything for that matter)
Hell, I used to play it with my old QuickShot 2-button analog joystick and keyboard without too much trouble.

[doomguy]

I cannot believe nobody has mentioned the difference in 8 bit consoles yet, over here the master system was on top and got tons more games than in America.

[Team Andromeda]

Apparently the N64 game took a hit in terms of gameplay quality compared to the arcade version (let alone graphics

Yeah after NCL making out the it was running on the Ultra 64 chipset (what a load of bull) I'm sure it did well in USA Arcades, and it did sell well in the USA N64 charts.

Can you think of any USA-centric raging games in that more realistic style in a touring or rally setting that were unpopular in Europe

No not really.

Again, in some cases, lack of popularity is simply down to marketing. (ie without good publicity it's really hard to get popular regardless of how good it is

I think there's a bit more to it than that with regards to Colin Mcrae lack of success in the USA on the PS .There again Micro Machines was huge over here, for what I gather not so big in the USA, while San Francisco Rush 2049 I also hear a Lot of Americans loving that game, not quite the case over here

There are some game that just sell better in different markets. just look at Horse racing games in Japan, they can top the charts both in the Arcades and home , yet never do that in the West, even though Horse racing is HUGE in the UK

It's not a great game, but it's a decent game in its category.

The 1st one is pretty pants imo. But did well in the US charts, and that's all that counts at the end of the day.

Then again, you have some strange aversion to Episode 1 Racer that I really can't understand.

I don't like the N64 version controls,, never played the DC or PC versions . I just didn't like the game, that's not to say that the game didn't also well over here (it did )