Favorite Type of Game?

[108 Stars]

I found Phantasy Star 2 and 3 mediocre at best, they had ugly graphics and bad soundtracks. Most important was that you had to explore a lot of boring dungeons with way too many random encounters. The stories themselves where okay but the way they were told was poor (very old-fashioned: town-dungeon-worldmap-town... and very short dialogues).
Phantasy Star 4 was improved in every way, really good, but it couldn´t stand against the best SNES-RPGs either: Final Fantasy VI, Chrono Trigger, Dragon Quest 6, Star Ocean, Breath of Fire 2 were all better imho.
I did not play Gemfire and Exile.
Chiki Chiki Boys and Cadash were no real RPGs.
Shining Force was very good indeed, I agree. And Warsong is great.
BUT: The SNES had Fire Emblem, good competition for Shining Force. And Warsong was also available on SNES (in Japan) with enhanced graphics and sounds.
Faery Tale Adventure was good, though it seems a bit aged nowadays compared to other 16-Bit RPGs.
D & D was quite good, I´d rate it a 7 or so; but definately not a classic.
That leaves Landstalker, Beyond Oasis and Crusader of Centity. Those are Action-Adventures, no RPGS. All three of them have strong graphics in common.
Landstalker (one of my all-time favourites) has to struggle with the difficult controls, but besides that, it´s almost perfect.
Beyond Oasis has awesome graphics and great gameplay, but it can be finished within 3 hours, and imho such a play time is a weak point.
Crusader of Centity has nicer graphics than Zelda, the gameplay is smooth and so on, but the story starts strong while it seems terribly rushed to conclusion in the end. Personally I think that maybe there was also a future scenario planned but didn´t find it´s way to the game. Also, 8 hours of gameplay and very easy difficulty are to be considered.
When it comes to SNES-Action Adventures Zelda, Secret of Mana and Seiken Densetsu come to mind. They are at least equal. Zelda has weaknesses in graphics and story, but it´s perfectly designed otherwise. Secret of Mana´s only weakness (in my eyes) is the horribly colourful graphics. I´m not through with Seiken Densetsu 3 yet, but I have nothing to complain about so far...

I think the graphics and sounds are not the most important point in these kinds of games but they can raise the atmosphere very much. And a flaw of many Genny-RPGs is the bad balancing. You often have to walk around and fight for ages to get the EXP and gold you need.

That doesn´t mean that I don´t like Genesis-RPGs / Action-RPGs. I´m eager to start playing Shadowrun and King Colossus at the moment for example. But even as a Genesis owner I must admit that the SNES clearly wins the RPG-duel by points.

[Benjamin]

Platformers for me, too. I think the platformers have aged best, and unfortunately most of that is probably due to there being so few real attempts to do 2-D platformers after the Genesis. Few 2-D games have been released since 1995-96, and the bulk of them are watered down portable games.

[Demonic Weasel]

108 Stars, you're dodging the point. You say that, "Oh they're not real RPG's!" They're not the traditional type, but they are RPG's even if they're action RPG's or Strategy RPG's or whatever. And using the term RPG's, can encompass the whole of all types of RPG's.

Now then on to the actual RPG's. I though Phantasy Star 3 was ok, but it always was a dodgy title, so attacking it is like getting into a fight with a cripple. Not going to win you any points. As for Phantasy Star 2, you have to keep in mind that this was the first RPG launched on the Genesis. Of course the graphics are going to look dated. Personally I don't see what was so wrong with the music, but if you say so, then that's how you feel.

Anyway, the only SNES RPG you named as being so excellent that I give you is Chrono Trigger. Again, you have your opinion and I have mine, we're not going to change each others minds, but I stand by my point the the Genesis can and does compete.

Fire Emblem was left in Japan. Shining Force was actually localized in more countries and was a better pioneer of strategy RPGs. Warsong was part of a series. The game on the SNES wasn't the same, but I take your point.

SoM and SoE were both decent games, but I think that Beyond Oasis, Crusader of Centy, and Landstalker can still compete. And I agree music and graphics have an effect on RPG's, but I don't think you can just say that the SNES completely wins. Because it doesn't in my opinion anyway. But you backed up your argument well enough, and it's just left to me to tell you why I disagree. The Genesis can compete and is better in some intstances. Most instances I'd say. Although the SNES does have it's titles too, I just think most of them, while good, aren't good enough.

[ary incorparated]

hmm but i just dont like shining force yes it has ugly graphics even for e genesis and its date,the battle system is very difficult and trys to convince you of pusshing the genesis of,story of thore is great playable from the start not yess what i hate the woodsaw system in many RPG,s you push the saw while youre enemy pushes the saw back stronger turn based,is Crap no control over youre movements and you need expirience points,etc and youre attacks are so strange.i have to say not that Tunr based is bad it worked out well in many games,but i just cant stand Final fantasy cause first it has womenised man,and it looks crap on the psx and the CGI imiges look cheap,and its totally overated,and why for god sake Final fantasy 7 uses photo images all over the pleas which make the graphics worth a 7,gameplay probably good for the fand,9.sound 9,story too gay 6 i here guys say they left a tear for the game come on man yourself.ill give it a total 7.i think im not into to the real rpg,s Turn based stratigic,i love story of thor more and action RPG.strange the only thing that makes that game a RPG cause of Experience points and HP,if those two options werent there it would be and adventure,erm star ocean genesis cant match Grono trigger in my way fastly overated the game is okay,illusion of time,secret of mana Zelda and many more turned bas and of the same stuff but hell that ae RPG,s and look like them the magic is within the game traspirancies which genesis doesnt,and the music isnt soem scratchy orchestrial,theyre just hell good on snes,and thats snes its point in the total standpoint.genesis has better platform games,and action games,snes wins chrono trigger which i hate.

[Novaka]

Oh i agree, the Genesis had a handfull of good RPG's, Shining Force 1 & 2 are still some of my favorite games of all time. The PS series is great too, its just the number of good platformers well outweigh the number of good RPG's on the Gen.

And who was saying Stratagy games are slow? Let me shoot them please.

[Demonic Weasel]

I think aryincoporated was trying to say that. The point that people seem to miss about turn-based games like Shining Force is that you do indeed have control over you characters. You control what they do and you have to think and use strategy rather than just button-mashing your way through every enemy.

It's much more sophisticated and there's a lot of thought that has to go into it unless your strategy just is a straight charge and hope it works. However many gamers seem to feel that thinking your way through something is a chore. Perhaps from a lack of imagination, or maybe they just have a really short attention span. I don't know.

And 108 Stars, after looking at your post again I realize that I failed to adress another point of the PS games that you made. You say that they had too many random encounters and there was too much in the way of difficult dungeons. I really don't know what to say to that. Random encounters can drive someone insane, but all they really do is to make the game more challenging. From your tone I gather that you prefer RPG's to be easy? What's wrong with a decent challenge?

[108 Stars]

I have no problem with a decent challenge; but it should be a challenge I can handle more through strategy and cleverness than through hours of leveling up.
RPGs should allow you to defeat an enemy by the time you reach him (if you have not fled all battles until that point) if you use a bit of caution and tactics. This alone was not enough in Phantasy Star 2, and that kind of ruined the flow of the story.
If I remember correctly Chiki Chiki Boys was a platformer, was it not?
And as far as I know Der Langrisser on SNES is a direct port of Warsong, not only part of the same series. But I´d give the Genesis more credits, since there are no English versions of the SNES-ports. As for the sequel to Warsong there is at least a translation patch available.
Fire Emblem has the same flaw (Japan-only), granted, and I agree that Shing Force 1, 2, and CD are great.
For the Action-RPGs I´d say Crusader of Centity ends up a bit above mediocricity while Landstalker and Beyond Oasis are worthy counterparts for Zelda III, Secret of Mana and Seiken Densetsu 3. I haven´t considered Secret of Evermore at all since it is not very good. So let´s settle my personal score....

Top Genesis RPGs...........................................Top SNES RPGs

- Phantasy Star 4.................................................- Final Fantasy VI
- Shining Force............................................. ........- Chrono Trigger
- Shining Force 2................................................. .- Dragon Quest 6
- Beggar Prince............................................ ........- Star Ocean
- Warsong........................................... .................- Breath of Fire 2
- Langrisser Hikari 2.............................................- Final Fantasy IV
- ???????????....................................... ................- Lufia 2
- ???????????....................................... ................- Tales of Phantasia

above average Genesis RPGs....................above average SNES RPGs

- D & D: Warriors of the Eternal Sun....................- Final Fantasy V
- Phantasy Star 2................................................ - Lufia 1
- Shadowrun......................................... ...............- Breath of Fire
- ?????????????..................................... ..............- Dragon Quest 5
- ?????????????..................................... ..............- Super Mario RPG
- ?????????????..................................... ..............- Ogre Battle
- ?????????????..................................... ..............- Ultima 6
- ?????????????..................................... ..............- Ultima 7

Top Genesis Action RPGs.............................Top SNES Action RPGs

- Landstalker....................................... ................- Zelda 3
- Beyond Oasis............................................. .......- Seiken Densetsu 3
- ?????????????..................................... ..............- Secret of Mana

above average Genesis Action-RPGs...........above average SNES Action RPGs

- Crusader of Centity...........................................- Soulblazer
- King Colossus.......................................... ..........- Terranigma
- Wonderboy in Monsterworld.............................- Dual Orb
- Y´s 3................................................. ................- Y´s 3
- ??????????????.................................... .............- Y´s 4

Puh, that´s all that come to mind.
Of course this is just my opinion, but don´t think I´m some kind of a Genesis-hater. I´ve been a Genny-user with all my heart and soul, but when I was a kid I did not care about RPGs (since Sega didn´t translate a single one into German). But looking back from today, this is how it looks to me.
All games I have listed are at least available as a translated ROM-hack.

[Zebbe]

I´ve been a Genny-user with all my heart and soul, but when I was a kid I did not care about RPGs (since Sega didn´t translate a single one into German).

Why do I find all these bloody German versions in my eBay searches then? I accidently bought a German version of Landstalker just because you're people can't learn English like the rest of the world (except France, they are even worse!) (no offense, but a little irony here). Landstalker was released in 1993, when you were 12 = a kid. You should have bought that and Story of Thor (also infecting my eBay searches) the next year.

BTW Phantasy Star IV owns every SNES RPG imho.

[108 Stars]

Why do I find all these bloody German versions in my eBay searches then? I accidently bought a German version of Landstalker just because you're people can't learn English like the rest of the world (except France, they are even worse!) (no offense, but a little irony here). Landstalker was released in 1993, when you were 12 = a kid. You should have bought that and Story of Thor (also infecting my eBay searches) the next year.

BTW Phantasy Star IV owns every SNES RPG imho.

Landstalker, Story of Thor (Beyond Oasis), Light Crusader and Soleil (Crusader of Centity) were translated into German, that´s right. But none of these games are RPGs.
-No experience points or something comparable
-only a single playable character
-Action battles
-jump passages
those are the typical ingrediants for Action Adventures, not Role Playing Games.
And it is true: Not a single RPG has been translated.
Nintendo translated at least a few titles.

[Zebbe]

True, but did you really need it to be translated to German? My first RPG was Phantasy Star, which I played when I was about 12. I wasn't great at English then, but I got better, and as the years went by along with the RPGs, my English got better and better. I think the RPGs gave a lot to that.

Maybe Nintendo translated the games they released in Europe, but that was not a big number of RPGs. The majority of those were left in the US or Japan. While Sega released most of their RPGs in Europe. They took a chance and didn't think "Europeans won't like RPGs" or "They must be translated to many languages" like Nintendo did. Sega believed in their European fans and I'm very thankful to them for that.

[108 Stars]

I have become very good in English indeed, and I owe it to comic books and videogames. Regarding it from today´s point of view, I suppose English RPGs wouldn´t have been that much of a problem.

I guess I was a bit frightened of them.
In Gamers, Germany´s most important Sega magazine of that time, they said nonsense like "be carefull if you´re used to jump´n runs", "very good knowledge of the English language is a must" or "it is very important to have a good English dictionary, not the cheap supermarket-editions".

I know today that this was bullshit and that school-English was quite good enough for the simple dialogues used in RPGs.

[XMARLTONX]

RPGs are very very good, espically when they have more of an openended type of play. Although when I think Sega......I think Sonic. My fondest memories of Sega will always be the struggle for the 100 rings to get that extra life....so for Genesis, it will have to be platformers.

[Benjamin]

Of course this is just my opinion

That's why I won't comment on your opinions (which I disagree with), but you are overlooking a number of Genesis games in your list such as Shining in the Darkness, Sword of Vermillion, Rings of Power, The Immortal, Monster World III and IV, and others along with all the Sega CD RPGs, which I'd include due to it being an add-on to the Genesis, bringing in both Lunar games, Dark Wizard, Popful Mail, etc.

[Demonic Weasel]

As I say, 108 Stars you back up your opinion well. However, though I agree that Phantasy Star 2 goes over the top, keeping in mind the time that it was realeased, RPG's were supposed to be hard at that time. The developers probably just got carried away with the new hardware. Heh.

And if you want to be fair, the Sega CD is more so part of the Genesis than it is it's own consol. Those RPG's more than even out the score.

Although mind you, I'd still rate the Genesis RPG's that I've played higher than most of the SNES ones I've played.

[ary incorparated]

I think aryincoporated was trying to say that. The point that people seem to miss about turn-based games like Shining Force is that you do indeed have control over you characters. You control what they do and you have to think and use strategy rather than just button-mashing your way through every enemy.

It's much more sophisticated and there's a lot of thought that has to go into it unless your strategy just is a straight charge and hope it works. However many gamers seem to feel that thinking your way through something is a chore. Perhaps from a lack of imagination, or maybe they just have a really short attention span. I don't know.

And 108 Stars, after looking at your post again I realize that I failed to adress another point of the PS games that you made. You say that they had too many random encounters and there was too much in the way of difficult dungeons. I really don't know what to say to that. Random encounters can drive someone insane, but all they really do is to make the game more challenging. From your tone I gather that you prefer RPG's to be easy? What's wrong with a decent challenge?

I think ary incorparated didnt sead that but what is trying to say that he is not into the hype of shining force and finds the city youlle walk trought look ugly yes,ill ive these games atry for you demonic weasel cause indeed i cant judge aftre playing and not succeding i think ill really have to get into shining force and maybe some day i will be the oposite of negative about shining force.im not into the strategie stuff right now,i like RPG,s and ill give youre precious shining force a change,i have too admit genesis has RPG that blow the snes up ps4 and many more maybe not with graphics but story hell yess,sam story as they comapre a pd saga to ff8 or 9 and say its crap cause their graphics while it has one of the most biuetifulk storys.I know and seen in the past that shining force 2 had a awesome end,but i couldnt play the game anbd didnt like it that much back then maybe someday ill wil but diffrence has to be made in humanitys taste ehy.I dont like beggar prince for the costs yes ittl probably be a good game but i have to say that the graphics are on par with ps3 and are a bit un easy on the eye,yes call me what you want but i may complain abouit graphics,im hell not going to but a game which graphic mediocore and sound is mediocore and the humor is good,graphics and sound have their sense for me,i cab read a nice book for 5 euros ehy,better that then a beggar prince for 50,i aint discurage you but that my look on the situation,i dont hate genesis RPG,s im nit really into them recently some i find moster and beating the snes,yes maybe one or more Genesis RPG,s are best and better the any snes rpg.snes always keeps the amount of more then 50 RPg,s that are good or decent many of the same i know but i have to say snes wins with that.PS4 is my faforite,and langrisser 2 on megadrive better then on snes and why the music and the graphics,the guitar pasrts in the genesis version are better.genesis wins its total defnitly but RPG,s snes will always have more as you can see on the list,and let me have my uppinion please,so not then im going to shoot those who arent open for uppinions.