The P4&460 - what features do you guys want them to have?

[JBOGames]

Wow you are clueless to make such a statement, the only reason people bought a PS2 back then in the first place, is because technically it was just an upgrade from the PS1, and for people that didn't fave a PS1, now they can own a PS1, PS2, plus hell even a DvD player all at the same time(which note was basically forced down peoples throats as is, since out of nowhere, stores stopped selling VHSs, so you basically had to have a DvD player sigh).

Beleive me, noone bought a PS 2 early on, to play PS2 games, lets be real atleast 95% of the PS2 library sucked.

In short, if people weren't forced to buy a DvD player, and it didn't play PS1 games, the PS 2 would've never sold much. Between Capcom, and NIS, their games alone probally add upto more then 50% of the awesome games on the PS2, that should paint you a picture of the lack of good games being pumped out by most of the companies at the time, plus how big a deal NIS/ATLUS was.

Your argument was for 04-05, not 2001. The whole wall of text above is now erased. No one was buying a PS2 for a DVD player in 04-05. Talk about clueless. Most game libraries, 95% of the games suck. Systems sell on great games, and demanded games not the library in general. It fed the RPG fans, the Frat boy Madden good graphics fans, it fed the Sony exclusive fans. PS2 games are still sold in stores. Are Gamecube games? Are Xbox games? No. The 360 and the Wii are both backward compatible, so your PS2 is a dvd player crap doesn't work. If it was just a system that was successful due to pushing their console out, no one would be buying their games today, where Gamecubes cost $10.

As for ATLUS, they did a lot you don't realize, especially for the PS2 library. Without ATLUS, NIS would've never made it, noone knew of NIS, and the games they release are super nich, and super wierd at the same time. There'san unwritten rule that states, avoid oddball(not to mention silly) games, released by some random smo company that no one ever heard of.

Yeah... ATLUS had no noticeable effect in the market. NIS? Market significance 04-05? No.

You sound like the morons who ran this country into the ground, with dumb concepts like too big to fail, and that the free market with no regulations will just fix its self.

Um what? Lol. Someone has gone a bit nutty and lost his cool along with any credibility.

[kool kitty89]

Why would they force resolutions past 1080p when they just became avalilable a few years ago. I'm also ready to get rid of loading times but disk based techs such as blu-ray are still tied down to 1970's technology (albeit on roids)

Umm, the vast majority of options are evolutions of 70s technology if not earlier. (I assume you're talking about laserdisc) Well, flash memory is actually a hair past that being invented in 1980. Hard drives are very old of course and evolutions of the same pricipals of drive in use on mainframes back in the 60s.

Of course, if things keep pushing towards DL content... that's more load times right there. (albeit for full installations, that's a one-time thing... but then you still have HDD load times -albeit faster than optical)

You'll never get around that problem with the current evolution of electronics: you'll have a proportionally small chunk of fast main RAM and slow mass storage. Solid State memory would address that to the extent of making loads exceptionally fast though, but that's discounting things like compressed data decoding and such. (remember you still got short load times on the Jaguar and N64) But one other factor vs any kind of magnetic/optical mass storage is the total lack of seek times to deal with as well: that's one of the biggest factors hindering fast loading, fragmented data (and with a HDD you can defragment to a large extent, but optical is stuck -if you have tons of extra space you can have lots of redundant sets of data to allow linear loading with minimal seeking though -something important since the earliest CD-ROM software... or even floppy media -tapes were pretty much linear by nacessity).

And can we please get VR back on track? That was such a cool technology back in 95 but it was way to advanced for the mid 90's.

No, it wasn't ahead of its time, it had inherent flaws that Nintendo was forced to warn users about while Sega chose to abandon it altogether.

It's somethign tied to all stereoptical 3D/perspective effects but the VR helmet/goggles made it even worse (3D films and TVs/games pose the same problems nevertheless, hence such things are going to hit a wall again very soon -we'll have to see if the 3DS is any exception -serious problems of long period use corrupting your brain's natural calibration of spacial input due to forcing you to ignore all but the stereoptical portion of depth perception).

And once again, there's a far more impressive and promising alternative that uses nothing related to stereo-optics at all (and would even work with people who've lost an eye )
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jd3-eiid-Uw

[OldSchool]

7800 RPM drives weren't used in the PS3 for HEAT reasons. 7800 RPM 2.5" drives get way too hot for a console (at least not without a vacuum cleaner for a fan). I don't expect that to change. Instead, I'd like to see a SSD instead.

Always-on AA would be nice, but always-on vsync is a negative for the good reasons given in the other threads. Instead, make the ability to turn it on or off inside the game mandatory. Then the user can set it the way they like. 1080p video will be the max norm for quite a few years to come, so optimizing things for 1920x1080p would be good.

Any new console should feature at least 4GB of ram... perhaps more. Modern games are written to assume almost infinite ram, and that's a big issue when making ports.

Perhaps instead of a dedicated GPU, use multiple AMD CPU/GPU processors (assuming AMD has them ready in time).

Stick to the STANDARD for controllers. That means USB and BlueTooth. No custom ports for anything! HDMI for video and audio... no custom AV ports.

7800s get too hot? Really? I've never heard of this.

There is never a good reason to not have V-Sync on.

That's fine... that or put a warning on the box, "This game was poorly designed and in order to ensure decent framerates, V-Sync is not recommended.".

I'd stear clear of EVERY piece of shit game with that warning... guess that's why they don't put those warnings on the box... but hey, it's ok to sell that kind of game to the gamers as long as the framerates are ok... right.


I'm definitely with you on those suggestions.

No reason to really bother with a Q4 for gaming for the vast majority of cases. A fast dual core is fine, but it's finally getting to the point where a quad is a sound investment for upcoming games. If you were looking for the most cost-effective option (for gaming), a fast dual core in a socket commonly used by quads as well and putting more emphasis on the video card would be wise. (if the choice was between a fast dual core and a slower quad core -say 2.8 vs 3 GHz with the same cores- a dual core would definitely be preferable)

If it wasn't for hitting a wall on CPU speeds, single cores would still have considerable advantages in general. (multi-core designs have serious bottlenecks that only get worse as the number of cores go up).

There are LOTS of PC games utilizing all 4 cores these days. A Quad 2.8 is going to murder a dual 3.0 anyday. I would NEVER recommend a dual over a quad... why, the savings are negligible considering the performance difference.

[cleeg]

It doesn't really matter to me too much, but an upgrade add on in a similar scenario to the 32X is an absolute must. It really is the only way to improve an otherwise good console, Sega proved that. I mean there were some okay games for the Mega Drive; but those 32X titles really took it to the next level.

[Knuckle Duster]

This thread needs it's diaper changed. It's pretty full of shit.

[kool kitty89]

7800s get too hot? Really? I've never heard of this.

There is never a good reason to not have V-Sync on.

That's fine... that or put a warning on the box, "This game was poorly designed and in order to ensure decent framerates, V-Sync is not recommended.".

Except vsync has nothign to do with managing a decent framerate, but all about whether people want tearing or frame skipping as has been addressed already.

vsync should have no noticeable impact on performance, all it does is prevent tearing by frame limiting. (so for a game with rock solid 60 FPS limited by a 60 Hz TV, you could have enough resource left in some cases to push to 180 FPS with tearing -frames that are all being rendered anyway, but thrown in the trash by vsync) It doesn't slow rendering at all, but it does keep some frames from being displayed. (worse with double buffering than triple buffering)

And again, up to this generation, vsync was almost always forced if not forced by hardware itself. (how many PS2 games can you name with tearing? PS1? N64? Saturn? 32x? Jaguar?)

There are LOTS of PC games utilizing all 4 cores these days. A Quad 2.8 is going to murder a dual 3.0 anyday. I would NEVER recommend a dual over a quad... why, the savings are negligible considering the performance difference.

It highly depends on the case though. The software would need to make full use of the quad AND use it for computationally intensive and bandwidth light processing. (bandwidth and I/O heavy stuff is where more cores just chokes the system faster)
Benchmarks mean nothing in that sense. For things like video encoding and such, multi-cores matter, but it depends heavily on the case.




As for goign with pure HDMI, I think it would be important to include analog outputs still as well, but definitely HDMI standard. (and a consolidated connector for everything analog -Sony could easily stick to their PSX/PS2 connector for Component/RGB -if SD wasn't supported at all, though downconverting is rather simple and wouldn't be a significant cost addition for composite/s-video/component, which is what the 360 and PS3 already do with zero optimization for SD beyond scaling support for those modes and aspect ratios) But even for HD there are some older HD sets with only component and/or VGA inputs without HDMI, or others where component or VGA actually perform better for whatever reason. (short of variable native resolutions for games, more flexible downscaling like 1360x768 as well as the 1280x720 would be nice -to display as native res on lower res HD sets, especially important with TVs with poorer scaling, then 1080i/540p as well -if the TV can accept 540p/60 fine, that would be preferable for the vast majority of cases -not sure if all LCDs like that, just as they have issues with 240p/60 in some cases)