new TV time (need top of the line)

[gamevet]

Unfortunately, all led, LCD and plasma televisions have a native resolution. Your 240p image has to be upscaled to that resolution, resulting in a pixelated image.

[OldSchool]

Unfortunately, all led, LCD and plasma televisions have a native resolution. Your 240p image has to be upscaled to that resolution, resulting in a pixelated image.

You're telling me that todays "top of the line" Tech can't do a resolution of 240 natively?

Are you saying that it's going to 'downscale' and thus... cause artifacts?


I well understand something with a low resolution blown up on a huge screen isn't going to look nearly as detailed as it would on a way smaller screen... as is the nature of pixels/etc. I understand that.

[kool kitty89]

SD CRTs are better for classic consoles. HD sets look terrible when displaying SD video. On top of that, there is a good chance there will be timing issues. I just tried out an NES on an Aquos LED, and there was a noticeable delay between pressing a button on the controller and the action on the screen.

If you check craigslist, there are people virtually giving away great quality old TV sets. Now is the time to take advantage of the situation. In a few years, the supply will be gone.

Not true, it heavily depends: some HD sets have very good SD support including 240p/60 (even in component) and good deinterlacing as well (or rather full single field updates and not deinterlacing to 30 Hz but updating each interlaced field at 60 Hz) and good composite video decoding.
However, it's inconsistent and not tied to higher or lower end sets, so it's almost up to testing on a per-TV basis. I think Philips and maybe Samsung LCD sets are more likely to have good ST support.

They were managing great SD support on dedicated 4:3 LCD SDTVs 5 years ago (my 17" phillips works great for 480i and 240p via RF, s-video, component, or composite) and the best HDTVs supporting it should be at least that good and with better contrast.

Of course, in all cases you'll want to disable all filters (don't use game mode, but use custom settings) and play with sharpness and aspect ratio/screen size to the desired settings. (some lump in edge enhancement with sharpness, others don't and sharpness is better to have maxed out like on an SDTV for most things -even on our low-end 32" Sanyo "720p" LCD set you have nice control over custom settings and separate sharpness and edge enhancement plus HDMI+VGA+composite+component+s-video and a very nice selection of aspect ratio AND automatic overscan control -there's a "pix shape" option on the remote that cycles though something like a dozen different automatic configurations of 4:3 and 16:9 with different amounts of zooming and overscan showing)

You're telling me that todays "top of the line" Tech can't do a resolution of 240 natively?

Are you saying that it's going to 'downscale' and thus... cause artifacts?


I well understand something with a low resolution blown up on a huge screen isn't going to look nearly as detailed as it would on a way smaller screen... as is the nature of pixels/etc. I understand that.

No, no, any good TV with 240p support would be fine. The pixelization isn't artifacting but simply the low resolution games on such a large display. (you'd get the same thing if you used RGB or s-video output to a big screen rear projection SDTV or projection SDTV)

However, composite video will be blurred as ever with similar composite decoding and filtering used as SDTVs. (but with bigger pixels just as a SDTV of similar size)

Most HD sets have enough blur/filtering options that you have a fair amount of flexibility. (definitely want edge enhancement turned to zero and you might want to turn sharpness down depending on your preference)


The actual artifacts are problems on the many HD sets with crap 240p and/or 480i support with deinterlacing, forced filtering, poor scaling, poor composite video decoding, poor automatic fine tuning for RF, etc. This is not consistent by any respect as I said above.
It might seem silly, but one foolproof option is to actually take in your game console(s) and try them out on the TV before buying.

Unfortunately, all led, LCD and plasma televisions have a native resolution. Your 240p image has to be upscaled to that resolution, resulting in a pixelated image.

Yes, but it's interpolated and all the resolutions are high enough to be fine with 240p/480p/480i. You lose more for 720p to 768p scaling though, but with interpolation you still don't see artifacts (but blur and sharpness loss), that's why VGA is a must to allow pure 768p. 1080p avoids more of that with decent scaling. (again, with the most loss from closer to 1080p resolutions)

Even out cheap Sanyo set (which supposedly has comparatively poor scaling) looks fine for all ST stuff I've seen. (and 1080p and 1080i conversion looks pretty decent too)
I don't think the SD support is as good as with our ~5 year old phillips LCD SDTV though, but I haven't heavily compared. (the HD set doesn't get a ton of use for SD stuff, more for ED and HD) It may be lower end, but the feature set and flexibility is stiff nice. (inputs, custom filtering/detail options, aspect ratio/pix shape, etc)
There's no 1080i/480i to 540p/240p forced single field display mode, but I don't know if any HD sets support that. (most media plalyers don't either -Quicktime pro supports single field display though -and for the majority of cases 540p looks better than 1080i even deinterlaced IMO)


Actual pixelization (ie big, chunky pixels) has nothing to do with scaling artifacts, but sheer screen size. (a native 320x240 52" LCD is going to look pretty chunky )

[OldSchool]

Not true, it heavily depends: some HD sets have very good SD support including 240p/60 (even in component) and good deinterlacing as well (or rather full single field updates and not deinterlacing to 30 Hz but updating each interlaced field at 60 Hz) and good composite video decoding.
However, it's inconsistent and not tied to higher or lower end sets, so it's almost up to testing on a per-TV basis. I think Philips and maybe Samsung LCD sets are more likely to have good ST support.

They were managing great SD support on dedicated 4:3 LCD SDTVs 5 years ago (my 17" phillips works great for 480i and 240p via RF, s-video, component, or composite) and the best HDTVs supporting it should be at least that good and with better contrast.

Of course, in all cases you'll want to disable all filters (don't use game mode, but use custom settings) and play with sharpness and aspect ratio/screen size to the desired settings. (some lump in edge enhancement with sharpness, others don't and sharpness is better to have maxed out like on an SDTV for most things -even on our low-end 32" Sanyo "720p" LCD set you have nice control over custom settings and separate sharpness and edge enhancement plus HDMI+VGA+composite+component+s-video and a very nice selection of aspect ratio AND automatic overscan control -there's a "pix shape" option on the remote that cycles though something like a dozen different automatic configurations of 4:3 and 16:9 with different amounts of zooming and overscan showing)





No, no, any good TV with 240p support would be fine. The pixelization isn't artifacting but simply the low resolution games on such a large display. (you'd get the same thing if you used RGB or s-video output to a big screen rear projection SDTV or projection SDTV)

However, composite video will be blurred as ever with similar composite decoding and filtering used as SDTVs. (but with bigger pixels just as a SDTV of similar size)

Most HD sets have enough blur/filtering options that you have a fair amount of flexibility. (definitely want edge enhancement turned to zero and you might want to turn sharpness down depending on your preference)


The actual artifacts are problems on the many HD sets with crap 240p and/or 480i support with deinterlacing, forced filtering, poor scaling, poor composite video decoding, poor automatic fine tuning for RF, etc. This is not consistent by any respect as I said above.
It might seem silly, but one foolproof option is to actually take in your game console(s) and try them out on the TV before buying.






Yes, but it's interpolated and all the resolutions are high enough to be fine with 240p/480p/480i. You lose more for 720p to 768p scaling though, but with interpolation you still don't see artifacts (but blur and sharpness loss), that's why VGA is a must to allow pure 768p. 1080p avoids more of that with decent scaling. (again, with the most loss from closer to 1080p resolutions)

Even out cheap Sanyo set (which supposedly has comparatively poor scaling) looks fine for all ST stuff I've seen. (and 1080p and 1080i conversion looks pretty decent too)
I don't think the SD support is as good as with our ~5 year old phillips LCD SDTV though, but I haven't heavily compared. (the HD set doesn't get a ton of use for SD stuff, more for ED and HD) It may be lower end, but the feature set and flexibility is stiff nice. (inputs, custom filtering/detail options, aspect ratio/pix shape, etc)
There's no 1080i/480i to 540p/240p forced single field display mode, but I don't know if any HD sets support that. (most media plalyers don't either -Quicktime pro supports single field display though -and for the majority of cases 540p looks better than 1080i even deinterlaced IMO)


Actual pixelization (ie big, chunky pixels) has nothing to do with scaling artifacts, but sheer screen size. (a native 320x240 52" LCD is going to look pretty chunky )

That's all well and good... and I appreciate you taking the time to share the info... but can you name me this 'ultimate' gaming LCD HDTV that I'm looking for please?


I feel like I'm talking to a brick wall when I ask, "please name me the ultimate gaming tv" and I get zero response. I want a brand and a model #.

[gamevet]

That's all well and good... and I appreciate you taking the time to share the info... but can you name me this 'ultimate' gaming LCD HDTV that I'm looking for please?


I feel like I'm talking to a brick wall when I ask, "please name me the ultimate gaming tv" and I get zero response. I want a brand and a model #.

It's Panasonic's new 50" plasma featuring a 3D, 600Hz display.

http://www.justbuyelectronics.com/pr...25&ref=grabber

[OldSchool]

It's Panasonic's new 50" plasma featuring a 3D, 600Hz display.

http://www.justbuyelectronics.com/pr...25&ref=grabber

Shit... I don't want Plasma. Too much juice... too much heat... and the damn thing degrades over time.

With the LCD, at least the bulbs can be replaced right? Plasma (from what I read) there's no hope... the day you take it home and turn it on, it starts degrading.


I appreciate you suggesting a set nonetheless, gamevet. Thank you sir for your help. I know I'm a fucker when it comes to being pleased.

[gamevet]

You're going to have a really hard time finding a 240Hz LCD that meets your requirements. I've maybe seen one, but most are going to be in the 120Hz range. Honestly, 120Hz is more than enough for your viewing needs.

http://reviews.cnet.com/240hz-lcd-tv...-need-to-know/

[OldSchool]

You're going to have a really hard time finding a 240Hz LCD that meets your requirements. I've maybe seen one, but most are going to be in the 120Hz range. Honestly, 120Hz is more than enough for your viewing needs.

http://reviews.cnet.com/240hz-lcd-tv...-need-to-know/

I appreciate the link.... too bad it's from the middle of '09 and it doesn't cater to Gaming at all.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

What about this big bastard, guys?

Sharp - AQUOS / 60" Class / 1080p / 240Hz / LCD HDTV - Black

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/Sharp+-+...&skuId=9845069

Then there's the Sony equivalent which looks badass except I don't want anything to do with the "3D technology" or the "Internet Connectable for access to Instant Content". I'd love to know what the difference is between the "1 PC (side) input" and the "1 HDMI PC input". What the heck is that all about?

Sony - BRAVIA / 60" Class / 1080p / 240 Hz / 3D LED-LCD HDTV

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/Sony+-+B...&skuId=9915447


Honestly, if I knew of another brand that's been around as long, I'd give them the same respect as Sony. I wish I didn't have to look at Sony the way I did (it's been VERY hard for me to forgive them for their Music CD DRM debacle back around '05), but I've never seen products last as long as theirs... be it tvs, stereos, etc so I'm automatically leaning towards the assumption that their kit is going to be the better pick time and time again.


Which of these two do you guys think is the better Gaming tv? If not these two, then please suggest what you feel is "top of the line" when it comes to gaming from NES to the PS3/360. thanks

[gamevet]

Sharp is pretty nice. Sony is as well, though they are slightly behind Samsung, when it comes to features.

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/Samsung+...614&st=Samsung LED LCD&contract_desc=null

[mick_aka]

My 42" Panasonic plasma uses fuck all electricity (295W) there's a good few hundred other items in the house that pull more juice, the old Samsung LCD in the spare bedroom pulls 200W.
and yes, the plasma does get hot, but not ridiculously so.

The plasma is 3 years old now (was top of the range $1500 set when new) and I've got no image degradation or burn in whatsoever, and it has various features to prevent both.

We've got an LCD, LED and a Plasma in the house and the image quality on the plasma is far superior especially for gaming, so much so that the LG Infinia LED (a 5 star rated TV) we purchased to replace the plasma has ended up in the bedroom.

Here's my NES through composite:



Note: the slight blur is my phone camera not the TV.

[chrisbid]

i suppose the solution is to take a crappy plug n play console to an electronics store and test the thing out on every display model you can find.

but i still say keep a dedicated SD tv for classic gaming. your light guns will thank you

[gamevet]

The NES looks better on my 52" Samsung LCD, than the Genesis does. My guess is that since the NES images are blocky, the upscale isn't as bad looking.

[OldSchool]

Sharp is pretty nice. Sony is as well, though they are slightly behind Samsung, when it comes to features.

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/Samsung+...614&st=Samsung LED LCD&contract_desc=null

That thing has hardly any inputs on it...

"Include 4 HDMI, 1 component video and 1 PC."

And again with this retarded "3D" Technology that I'd never use in a million years.

[gamevet]

The Sony television you posted is 3D capable. The Sony television is also about $1k more expensive. You could buy a composite to component converter for $100 and save about $900.

[OldSchool]

The Sony television you posted is 3D capable. The Sony television is also about $1k more expensive. You could buy a composite to component converter for $100 and save about $900.

?



After reading all day yesterday and for a couple hours today I'm still undecided. This shit is pissing me off... it was never this hard picking out a CRT for my PC.