new TV time (need top of the line)

[Metal_Sonic]

I've been looking at tvs... and I'm pretty 'meh' about what I'm looking at.

I haven't found a 65" with the latest 240hz tech yet.


Is there any reason they haven't come out with that yet?
I'm also noticing that most of the tvs only have a couple composite inputs... I want a tv with 4+ composite inputs.

Date posted: 05-13-2010

I am soon to be shopping for a digital tv... I've had a 27" Sony Analog forever, and in order to be able to have S-Video, I have to upgrade. I'm going to hold onto my 27" for a while after I get my new tv just in case some systems don't look good on the newer tv. I am anxious about how my NES/SNES/Genesis are going to look on a 65" (which is what I think I wanna get) digital tv.

I wish I could get a tv that was 4:3, I know Widescreen is all that's available though.
I will be playing all systems on this tv... from the Atari Flashback 2 - NES - P1-P3/etc - Computer.


I'd like to go top of the line and get the best... this is going to be a gaming screen for me (as well as watching DvDs of course), AND I'd like to play my Computer on this screen as well. I play my Comp games at 1280x1024 w/4xAA and V-Sync on a 17" CRT currently. I have no idea what to expect... the only experience I've had with LCDs has been 'meh'... dark colors don't look anywhere near as good as my (MAG) CRT does.

Any suggestions for me to look at? Pros/Cons of getting a huge tv versus something more conservative (30-40")?.. I'm all ears.

I feel like I need something that's going to at a minimum give me the same viewing size that my 4:3 Analog 27" has.

Thanks for any and all help,


OS

Date posted: 02-24-2010

Make up your fucking mind guy. If you want some suggestions from people who are more knowledgeable, go here:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/

[OldSchool]

Date posted: 05-13-2010

Date posted: 02-24-2010

Make up your fucking mind guy. If you want some suggestions from people who are more knowledgeable, go here:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/

If you're going to suggest something to me, then you can do it in a more respectful manner. You can take your condescension and go fuck yourself.

[Metal_Sonic]

http://www.sega-16.com/forum/showthread.php?t=15073
Judging from your new topic, you're not looking for a new TV, you're just looking for another reason to whine like a little bitch. That's what we need, you polluting this forum with yet another whiny ass diatribe against game developers.

[kool kitty89]

My 42" Panasonic plasma uses fuck all electricity (295W) there's a good few hundred other items in the house that pull more juice, the old Samsung LCD in the spare bedroom pulls 200W.
and yes, the plasma does get hot, but not ridiculously so.

Older LCDs use a lot more power than newer ones (especially LED lit ones)...

LCDs were behind CRT HD/SDTVs for quite a while in power efficiency (for better CRTs at least... some cheap-o CRTs are more power hungry). CRTs haven't changed much in power consumption over the last 20-30 years (a better modern 25" CRT SDTV pushes ~60 watts vs 90-100 watts in the late 80s), any good 32" SD or HD CRT from the last few years should be below 100 watts peak power consumption. (our ~2005 27" flat screen Sanyo set is 75 watts peak consumption) Comparatively our ~2006 17" LCD SDTV is also rated at 75 watts and gets considerably warmer to the touch.

That's changed rapidly with newer LCDs though and even more so with LED lighting, unless you turn the set up super bright on a floro-tube lit LCD. (ie far brighter than the CRT would ever do) Plasmas have always been very power hungry (including the little monochome ones used on some portable displays back in the 80s) and the main thing that's improved is burn-in and pixel size, but that's still limited too.



OLED based displays are even lower power than LCD and have extremely high contrast ratios, but that's still a developing technology and has yet to becom common. (and I think there's also a more limited lifespan currently)


A good LCD set is definitely the way to go... if they'd actually pushed CRT HDTVs more, that might be an attractive option but:
AFIK there have been no proper multi-sync HDTVs with native 240p/480i SD support, 480p, 540p/1080i, 720p, and 1080p support. (some 720p/1080i multisync sets exist, but the only 1080p and SDTV support comes from scaling and interlacing or deinterlacing depending on the case)
They never got pushed into the quality range of good VGA monitors... and also note that some early VGA/SVGA monitors (late 80s/early 90s) DID actually support SDTV resolutions for CGA/EGA compatibility. (I believe some later Atari ST/TT/Falcon monitors also supported multi-sync as such)

And of course, CRTs fell out of fashion due to percieved inferiority to LCD and Plasma, which is false, of course. (the only integral disadvantage is size/bulk, and newer CRTs have still come a long way in that regard -but you won't be able to slit them flush with a wall)
There's also the issue with any sets supporting interlacing natively (480/1080i) will either have to have flicker for interlaced modes, or stick with high-persistence phosphors to avoid flicker (and limit the effectiveness of 60Hz progressive modes due to that), though offering deinterlacing support for those modes would solve the issue as well. (allowing flickery native modes or flicker-fixed deinterlaced modes -for 240p stuff you'd leave it native too, and 480i native for older light gun games -not sure if any such games work with the consoles running in 480p native) From what I've seen, high-end PC LCD monitors still haven't matched the best high-end CRT monitors from a few years ago. (kind of a shame CRTs aren't still advancing as such, or being commonly sold at all)

Again, that's all what should have happened, but it didn't... and HD CRTs don't have a better track record for SD support, so that's not a good option either.










I can't suggest any specific model for HD sets. However, once you have a list of possibilities together, you should definitely test them before making a final decision. (including testing for SDTV and composite video decoding support)

[David J.]

Oh shit son the AA and V-Sync just kicked in yo.

[OldSchool]

Older LCDs use a lot more power than newer ones (especially LED lit ones)...

LCDs were behind CRT HD/SDTVs for quite a while in power efficiency (for better CRTs at least... some cheap-o CRTs are more power hungry). CRTs haven't changed much in power consumption over the last 20-30 years (a better modern 25" CRT SDTV pushes ~60 watts vs 90-100 watts in the late 80s), any good 32" SD or HD CRT from the last few years should be below 100 watts peak power consumption. (our ~2005 27" flat screen Sanyo set is 75 watts peak consumption) Comparatively our ~2006 17" LCD SDTV is also rated at 75 watts and gets considerably warmer to the touch.

That's changed rapidly with newer LCDs though and even more so with LED lighting, unless you turn the set up super bright on a floro-tube lit LCD. (ie far brighter than the CRT would ever do) Plasmas have always been very power hungry (including the little monochome ones used on some portable displays back in the 80s) and the main thing that's improved is burn-in and pixel size, but that's still limited too.



OLED based displays are even lower power than LCD and have extremely high contrast ratios, but that's still a developing technology and has yet to becom common. (and I think there's also a more limited lifespan currently)


A good LCD set is definitely the way to go... if they'd actually pushed CRT HDTVs more, that might be an attractive option but:
AFIK there have been no proper multi-sync HDTVs with native 240p/480i SD support, 480p, 540p/1080i, 720p, and 1080p support. (some 720p/1080i multisync sets exist, but the only 1080p and SDTV support comes from scaling and interlacing or deinterlacing depending on the case)
They never got pushed into the quality range of good VGA monitors... and also note that some early VGA/SVGA monitors (late 80s/early 90s) DID actually support SDTV resolutions for CGA/EGA compatibility. (I believe some later Atari ST/TT/Falcon monitors also supported multi-sync as such)

And of course, CRTs fell out of fashion due to percieved inferiority to LCD and Plasma, which is false, of course. (the only integral disadvantage is size/bulk, and newer CRTs have still come a long way in that regard -but you won't be able to slit them flush with a wall)
There's also the issue with any sets supporting interlacing natively (480/1080i) will either have to have flicker for interlaced modes, or stick with high-persistence phosphors to avoid flicker (and limit the effectiveness of 60Hz progressive modes due to that), though offering deinterlacing support for those modes would solve the issue as well. (allowing flickery native modes or flicker-fixed deinterlaced modes -for 240p stuff you'd leave it native too, and 480i native for older light gun games -not sure if any such games work with the consoles running in 480p native) From what I've seen, high-end PC LCD monitors still haven't matched the best high-end CRT monitors from a few years ago. (kind of a shame CRTs aren't still advancing as such, or being commonly sold at all)

Again, that's all what should have happened, but it didn't... and HD CRTs don't have a better track record for SD support, so that's not a good option either.










I can't suggest any specific model for HD sets. However, once you have a list of possibilities together, you should definitely test them before making a final decision. (including testing for SDTV and composite video decoding support)

Thank you so much for the wonderful post.

[Zoltor]

Is there no LED LCD TV of today (50+") that I can buy that has amazing support for 240P - 1080P with ZERO lag in ALL inputs?

I want the perfect all around top of the line LED LCD for gaming. I'd prefer to go 240hz from the get go.

I want the VGA input to be perfect, and I want the 'entire' screen to be filled up when I hook my PC up to the tv... I've read that a lot of tvs don't even utilize the entire screen when a PC is hooked up. That sounds retarded to me and I don't even understand how that would make it to market in the first place.

I want the composite inputs to incur zero lag, and if they do... I want the tv to have a feature that will eradiacte all lag.


Am I asking too much, guys?

This seems like such a SIMPLE black and white question to me yet I can't get a straight suggestion from ANYWHERE and it is starting to disgust me.


If someone told me they were going to get into spinning vinyl and wanted to DJ with that medium... and asked me what the best TurnTable would be to use... I could easily recommend a couple top contenders. The response would be as simple as saying, "look into the Technics 1200 and it's various iterations or look at Vestax".

Why can't I get a simple and straight response when asking what the top of the line Gaming LCD is


*edit* - guys, wth... I'm asking for an all around perfect solution for 240P and onward. I want to get AWAY from using my current 27" 4:3 CRT Sony 480i (only) TV. I will hang on to it for as long as it lives, but I want to replace it with a top notch LCD.

Are you telling me there's no LCD on the planet that's going to give me the same quality image I get when playing my NES/SNES/Genesis on my CRT?

Because there almost is none. Your only hope period, is a Samsung Plasma TV(they're the only ones who know what the **** they are doing).

Short from that, say screw it, and just stick to a CRT.

Yes Oldschool, that's exactly how it is, LCDs suck to no end for classic gaming(it doesn't matter what company you buy one from, LCDs just plainly suck for classic gaming).

[lumclaw]

Kinda... Though that more involves classic consoles having bad output quality. LCDs don't so much make them look worse, as CRTs hide distortion already there. Retro visuals fed to an LCD from clean sources like a PC look fine.

[gamevet]

Emulators clean up the images.

Even a console hooked up to VGA monitor, via a converter can't hide the ugly truth that these low-res games look horrible in higher resolutions. When my 32" Wega was in the repair shop, I used a s-video to VGA adaptor to run my older consoles on a 17" VGA monitor. Most of the games were blurry looking.

The 32" Wega I had in the shop supports 480i/480p/720p/1080i. My consoles looked pretty good on that set.

[kool kitty89]

Thank you so much for the wonderful post.

Oh, and looking back I realized by first statement could be misenterpreted: I meant that LED lit screens are even more efficient compared to older LCDs than newer LCDs in general. (and of course all newer sets have pushed ahead with better contrast, viewing angle, etc -and LED set have dynamic lighting aiding contrast further)
Plus LEDs will last practically forever barring any odd power surges or such, so no dealing with replacement backlight tubes.

But for SD support it's definitely more of a craps shoot AFIK, and as long as you're willing to feel a bit awakward, testing your old consoles (and other SD stuff) at the store is a good option.

[OldSchool]

Oh, and looking back I realized by first statement could be misenterpreted: I meant that LED lit screens are even more efficient compared to older LCDs than newer LCDs in general. (and of course all newer sets have pushed ahead with better contrast, viewing angle, etc -and LED set have dynamic lighting aiding contrast further)
Plus LEDs will last practically forever barring any odd power surges or such, so no dealing with replacement backlight tubes.

But for SD support it's definitely more of a craps shoot AFIK, and as long as you're willing to feel a bit awakward, testing your old consoles (and other SD stuff) at the store is a good option.

wow


I've waited over 5 years to get an LCD tv and there still isn't a "clear" choice after all these years... how can there not be a couple "go to" contenders that all Gamers use for their SD-HD Gaming needs... I just don't get it.

I guess I'll simply need to take my NES into the store to check it out... what would you recommend to try out Mr. Kool? Does it even matter? Should I test out something in the 8 bit range or 16? I suppose it doesn't matter...?


thks again for chiming in, you've been most helpful