Genesis/MD vs. SNES

[Kamahl]

At 0:30 - It sounds like a violin to me.



This one is pretty good too

[Jay See Double You]

Chris and Kamahl, I did listen to all three tracks, Chris' track I was familiar with, Streets of Rage 2, The beginning of stage 4, where you're on your way into the Baseball diamond. Kamahl's first track I think might be one of the tracks offered up earlier on this thread. If not, then it's not one I recognize. His second track, on the other hand sounds -very- familiar...I know it from somewhere, but I can't place it. It's not Landstalker, is it?

I think all three tracks sound great, as always, but once again, I don't really hear strings. I can hear the attempt being made at strings, but I don't think they're very convincing. Really, I think it's more "power of suggestion" at work here than anything. Being told to listen for the strings, I can hear what's supposed to represent them, and have been successfully persuaded that strings is actually what they're going for (a full fledged symphony on Kamahl's first track), but I've been playing Streets of Rage 2 since about 1993, so I've heard that track a million times (hyperbole is the greatest thing in the whole wide world, isn't it? ) and left in a neutral state, with no suggestions being made to me have never once drawn a parallel to strings with it. The closest of the three to sounding like a real instrument is Kamahl's second offering, but I almost hear more of a wind instrument than a stringed instrument.

So it wasn't til someone said "don't you hear that that's a violin" for me to even be able to draw a weak association, and one that I don't find very convincing. Whereas with SNES, whether you love the PCM samples, hate them, or are some point in between, you at least know instantly that strings are what you're hearing. There's not even any question. So -if- that's Sega's version of strings, then I've gotta stand by my earlier statement and say Sega doesn't do strings well. Or, being as generous as possible, Genesis doesn't do strings nearly as well as SNES.

Yeah, even though I lean Sega overall, I still think I've got to stand by my original position that if the name of the game is clarity and dynamic and power and overall fidelity....Sega wins, flawless victory, but if the name of the game is as close as we can get to realistic instruments (particularly strings)...SNES wins....fatality. The only instrument where it's about neck and neck is the old Church Organ, they can both do about an equally good job with church organs.

Hopefully, in my attempt to articulate my lack of persuasion, I'm not coming off as a jerk. There's been no snarkiness intended, in fact, I love to talk about this stuff! I also love that everybody's been posting up audio clips of this stuff. Great music for the most part. I've been reminded of old greats as well as introduced to new greats. Thanks for sharing these videos! Time to turn garage band on again.

[Kamahl]

The second song is the boss theme from Golden Axe 2

Note that I never said the genesis did strings better (not even close), it's just that to me it does sound like a violin, not a very realistic one, but it certainly does the same job.

Do you at least agree it can do orchestral tunes :P? even if it's not "realistic" sounding, it's certainly orchestral.

I kinda feel bad putting up all these orchestral tunes. Techo, Jazz and Metal, these are what the genny is good at.

[Jay See Double You]

The second song is the boss theme from Golden Axe 2

Note that I never said the genesis did strings better (not even close), it's just that to me it does sound like a violin, not a very realistic one, but it certainly does the same job.

Do you at least agree it can do orchestral tunes :P? even if it's not "realistic" sounding, it's certainly orchestral.

I kinda feel bad putting up all these orchestral tunes. Techo, Jazz and Metal, these are what the genny is good at.

Ah, Golden Axe II...that's why it sounded familiar.

I'll concede that that's what it's attempting to do.

But to me it's like when my 3yr old brings me a scribble that looks like it's in the "ka" stage of the "kaboom" process, and tells me that that's our cat...I -might- be able to make a vague connection -after- it's been suggested to me that that's what it is...but I'd never ever come to that conclusion on my own....Poor kitty go kaboom. Que lastima!

But yes, I'll concede that the "Kaboom Kitty Symphony Orchestra" has been known to play gigs at Sega Genesis hall.

[retrospiel]

and again Dreamer:

[Kamahl]

Ok, now I understand what genesis "violins" sound like.

It's actually a violin symphony (not just 1) all playing the same thing, recorded on old equipment.

They do sound very similar.

[tomaitheous]

Since people are posting music examples and what not, and none for TG16 - here are some of my own conversion (shameless, I know ) that don't have that 'typical', IMO, TG16 sound.









(tiido, don't click on this song. It's *that* song )

<- my unfinished TF3 Siren cover.

Mmmmm, I'm not positive about the simultaneous colors and resolution bit, though I make no claim to be a TG16 expert, so you might well be right. In my observation, color counts and resolutions all seem to be about equal to SNES (I also seem to remember seeing a spec sheet for TG16 that showed the 512/256 color count and the 256x224 max res figure, but again, I may be trippin', and would be happy to be shown a spec sheet that corrects me.)

Kamahl got the specs right. Yeah, don't know the TG16 hardware

Back to Genesis vs SNES fighting! ...(ding-ding-ding)

Oh, on the strings comment. When I hear people say the Genesis can't do strings like the SNES, I assume it ALWAYS implied realistic strings - not synthy sounding stuff. Is that what you guys are debating about?

[retrospiel]

I dunno. I don't think Genesis can do anything 100% 'right'. It'll always sound like FM synthesis. But I like that.

Those PCE tracks are great, tomaitheous! I wish I knew the PC Engine better to fully appreciate them.

[TrekkiesUnite118]

I think all three tracks sound great, as always, but once again, I don't really hear strings. I can hear the attempt being made at strings, but I don't think they're very convincing.

They are FM Synthesis Strings. For 1980's Technology they do sound rather convincing. For the High notes that would be played on the E and A String of a violin it does sound close but a bit too clean which is why it doesn't sound real. If you use an old Yamaha Keyboard that has a setting set as Violin it's going to sound how those strings sound in Genesis Songs. That's how FM Synthesis strings sound, the frequency of the sound is correct, but the variation of the sound and the extra sounds such as the scratching of the bow strings isn't there. So it sounds too perfect and too clean, so it sounds fake.

You aren't going to hear an SNES quality String sound coming through FM Synthesis. However that's not to say the Genesis flat out can't do them. Are you forgetting there is a PCM channel (2 if you use Tiido's engine) in the Genesis? You can easily play a PCM sample of a violin through that if you really must have your strings sound that good. Most people used it for things the felt were more important though like Drums and voices.

[madcrow]

The only sane answer is "both". Anybody who claims to love gaming and who doesn't have both doesn't know what they're talking about.

[Kamahl]

Some good examples of what the turbografx soundchip can do:


Showing some great graphics too


5:56 - Immovable Fossil


From Legendary Axe 2, it's a shame the game looks like crap.


For those that like me, prefer more energetic stuff


Another great one, a classic.


Great flute in this one


Legendary Axe!

and plenty more not available on youtube.

[tomaitheous]

You aren't going to hear an SNES quality String sound coming through FM Synthesis. However that's not to say the Genesis flat out can't do them. Are you forgetting there is a PCM channel (2 if you use Tiido's engine) in the Genesis? You can easily play a PCM sample of a violin through that if you really must have your strings sound that good. Most people used it for things the felt were more important though like Drums and voices.

Tiido's engine is the exception though, in the context of using other samples instead of drums. Drums and such samples are more forgiving of low frequency resolution as well as errors in the period playback (large gaps and what not). Most, well let's not kid ourselves - almost all, sample players of official games sucked compared to Tiido's engine. I'm betting that's a big part of the reason why they didn't.

[findout5]

LOL. On a SEGA board, if the SNES won this poll, something would be very wrong!

[tomaitheous]

Some good examples of what the turbografx soundchip can do:


Showing some great graphics too


5:56 - Immovable Fossil


From Legendary Axe 2, it's a shame the game looks like crap.


For those that like me, prefer more energetic stuff


Another great one, a classic.


Great flute in this one


Legendary Axe!

and plenty more not available on youtube.

Xanadu I has Xanadu II beat though
(Seems the time stamp doesn't work with /music option. Track #20 or time 2:55)

[retrospiel]

Some good examples of what the turbografx soundchip can do:


Showing some great graphics too

Heh, this looks and sounds like a mix of SNES and MD! I really need more PCE in my life.