How do you tie a tie?

[Vyse of Arcadia]

Yeah, there are... and it makes a lot of sense, but Americans in general don't take that kind of view on dress codes.

Quite a few public schools I went to, kids would be teased almost to the point of suicide over their clothes, and that's where a standard uniform would be handy.

I've heard that, but I've always had trouble actually believing it. Childrens can be so cruel. I really appreciate that my parents sent me to Catholic school.

[Lastcallhall]

Uniforms in public schools is a fairly new movement in the US, at least at the implementation level. The schools I went to as a child never had strict dress codes, as most of the "banned" items related to gang colors, sports logos (also gang affiliated), and general items that are not school appropriate. I recently found out that those same schools have adopted a uniform program, mainly consisting of plain khaki pants and a polo t-shirt. While this uniform policy has reduced violence in schools (at least, that's what the news reports), it's raised a couple of concerns in my mind. First and foremost, these uniforms are now an additional educational expense for the parents to absorb. My family was a middle class double parent income family for the first few years, and even then I remember school expenses being a hardship on my mom and dad. After they divorced, it was even worse. There's no way my mom could have afforded uniforms for me and my brother on a single income. Our situation isn't that different from a lot of the families in the area, and I'm sure the impact is being felt on the kids that can't afford clothes.

Secondly, I personally feel that uniforms hinder a child's ability to express themselves. I've always felt that the school system was nothing more than a 12 year brainwashing program, designed to gear children towards acceptance into a "normal" adulthood, with very little room to think outside the box. I understand the safety implications, but I have to question the trade off with regard to personal freedom.

[yitao]

http://www.ehow.com/video_4435523_ma...e-necktie.html

that's cool way to tie a tie!

[Elusive]

There's no way my mom could have afforded uniforms for me and my brother on a single income. Our situation isn't that different from a lot of the families in the area, and I'm sure the impact is being felt on the kids that can't afford clothes.

Secondly, I personally feel that uniforms hinder a child's ability to express themselves. I've always felt that the school system was nothing more than a 12 year brainwashing program, designed to gear children towards acceptance into a "normal" adulthood, with very little room to think outside the box. I understand the safety implications, but I have to question the trade off with regard to personal freedom.

To answer your first point: local authorities usually subsidise school uniforms for low-income families. This ties in with grants for supplies, free/subbed travel allowances, free school dinners, etc. As for your second, I'd disagree; a shirt and tie minimum is the world's working uniform. It's good to have a sense of decent dress, lest you end up like David here, asking the Internet for help! - and somehow, people still become actors :P

[Lastcallhall]

Ha! Well put.

[Flygon]

Yet every school that I've seen so far in Australia (Victoria, specifically) uses school uniforms extensively, and frustratingly expensively.

It's even more frustrating when they scale price up by size, now consider that I come from a tall line of family... yeah.

[David J.]

Well, I was going to say to Lastcallhall, I would image they have a clothing allowance or whatnot for the uniforms, as enlisted members of the US military receive one annually, but not officers.

I dress a little more "fancy" than most people I know. I'm usually rocking some nice boot-cut jeans, with some nice shoes usually loafers and a nice button up (or down?) dress shirt usually untucked and get lots of complements.

[doomguy]

Here in a lot of schools they make you buy a stupid amount of things twice over at inflated prices, for P.E your school branded socks for example i mean come on that's too far!

[Chilly Willy]

Uniforms don't HAVE to be expensive. In fact, the primary cost of clothes today ISN'T the clothing itself, but rather the brand name. That's why knock-offs are such a lucrative business. Do you really think that a Gucci bag is any different than a knock-off?

That's part of the argument FOR uniforms - lower cost to parents. Parents no longer have to worry about their kid needing $100 sneakers and $200 designer jeans that the "fashionable" kids are "all wearing these days", just some cheap uniform. Because the uniforms are all alike and made in bulk (i.e., mass-produced), they are cheaper yet than even cheap clothes.

The only people who complain about the cost of uniforms are those people who either have no idea of their real cost, or they shop at the Salvation Army, and that's where those subsidies Elusive mentioned come in for REALLY low income families.

[David J.]

Salvation Army isn't a place I would really shop at on a daily basis, but I got a sport coat for $6...with the store sticker of $110 still on it. Worked well for a job interview or two, and I still have it and have worn it a few times since.