cool new genesis games?

[Zebbe]

Nightmare Busters is the best case I can think of, as the IP holders were both easy to reach and happy to cooperate with a publisher - but rather than approach them for licensing or even do the research, certain people chose to just take the game, slap it on a donor cartridge, and sell it at a premium. Super Fighter Team, on the other hand, acquired a quick and fair licensing agreement with the IP holders, which they appreciate and are excited about.

As I've said before: A thief is a thief no matter how you slice it; just because you can take something doesn't mean you should. If it were that simple, Super Fighter Team would just steal other peoples' games and call them our own, rather than going through the proper legal channels.

Didn't you "steal" Sega's Mega Drive/Genesis logos for the packaging of Beggar Prince and Legend of Wukong then? How come you waited until a company you worked with asked you to contact Sega about this before you used those logos?

[108 Stars]

See above post; I think I know exactly what you mean but disagree.

You know the true parasites out there, selling masses of their games; you even licensed Wukong from Gamtec, well known content pirates. Or similar companies in Russia. Such people are not at all comparable to people like for example our playgen and bratwurst on Sega-16 sitting in their living room soldering carts for fans.

These people offer us a great chance to experience lost gems as they were meant to be.

[CMA Death Adder]

Didn't you "steal" Sega's Mega Drive/Genesis logos for the packaging of Beggar Prince and Legend of Wukong then?

No, we most certainly did not "steal" anything. We had been in contact with Sega of America from the beginning, but could never get a definite answer out of them. The closest thing we ever got to "approval" was one of their people telling me something along the lines of, "Sega doesn't care about any of that stuff anymore, so you should be fine." Especially since I had this conversation recorded, I figured at the time this was green light enough, coupled with our disclaimer about Sega not being involved with the games, for us to go ahead and use the Genesis / Mega Drive logos on the products.

How come you waited until a company you worked with asked you to contact Sega about this before you used those logos?

In fact, it had never occurred to me to contact Sega of Japan until we were negotiating a contract with a Japanese company. Since we're a US-based outfit ourselves, we always communicated with Sega of America.

We chose to make public mention of our contact with Sega of Japan in regard to Star Odyssey because it finally resulted in a definite answer from their legal department in regard to licensing and trademark usage - something we'd been trying to get answered for a long time.

you even licensed Wukong from Gamtec, well known content pirates.

Gamtec produced video games based on the requests of their clients, and we all know that copyright is a grey, and very much ignored thing in Taiwan and China. There's also little to no support from their respective governments to enforce this kind of property ownership. Does this mean we should follow their poor example? I certainly don't think so.

In the case of Legend of Wukong, Gamtec had produced a game from 100% brand new and original content, not from resources taken from other works. They are due proper credit and respect for this achievement, so of course we here happy to partner with them in order to introduce this game to a new worldwide audience. Does it mean we support or endorse their works which violate copyright? Not for a second.

[108 Stars]

I know Wukong does not contain copyright-violations. The point is that companies such as Gamtec are the really disrespectful ones making real cash of copyright infringement; not the dudes sitting at home soldering repro carts, often for so little profit that they can get barely a menu at McDonald's for it. They are no worse than the translators or hackers, they often sell the games for little more than it costs them.
Both unauthorised translations / hacks and bootlegs/repros are strictly illegal. Yet both are a great thing for players if they don't try to sell them overpriced or claim they are originals.
You can't appreciate the illegal work of MIJET but condem the guy that illegally puts it on cart.
Good and cheap repros can play a major role in keeping our retro-consoles interesting and experience lost gems like we would have in the 90ies.

You made business with a company that did many illegal things because the game was clean; so please don't set such a high morality standard on what the few repro guys do

[retrospiel]

How is translating a game illegal ?

[edojapan76]

Pier Solar IS a new Genesis game! The two others were released in Taiwan during the 90s, so they aren't "new" in the same sense.

There are two other "new" games coming up, Star Odyssey, which is a translated release of Blue Almanac, and Rick Dangerous, which is a port from other systems.

Well hell then by that logic any game with a stagered release date isn't "new" cause it came out in a different country first!

Hey does that also mean that any game that uses the Unreal Engine isn't new?

[108 Stars]

How is translating a game illegal ?

The Bern convention states that a copyright holder must grant permisson to a translation. Doing a translation without permission violates the copyright.
Hacking the software is also illegal afaik.

[retrospiel]

Copyright always applies to commercial usage. It does *not* apply to fan made stuff that is distributed free of charge. This falls under fair use.

[108 Stars]

No, fair use does not apply to this. If someone would translate a portion for example for educational purposes, yes. A full game, not at all. In the same vain you could translate Stephen King's next novel yourself and put it online for free. That's not wha t fair use is. It in theory damages the comnercial sales of Mr King's intellectual property, thus it does not fall under fair use. Same for game translations. Fair use does not nullify copyright if it's free, that would be insane.

[CMA Death Adder]

the dudes sitting at home soldering repro carts, often for so little profit that they can get barely a menu at McDonald's for it. They are no worse than the translators or hackers, they often sell the games for little more than it costs them.

Oh, don't give me the "poor repro guys" nonsense. If they are making even a cent from stealing and selling someone else's work, they are not to be pitied or celebrated just because that cent isn't a nickel.

Furthermore, you'd be surprised at just how many of these "poor souls" refuse to cease the sales of games they have no business selling in the first place, when the IP holders request that they do so. I'll say it again: thieves are thieves.

You can't appreciate the illegal work of MIJET but condem the guy that illegally puts it on cart.

Now see, this here may be the first statement you've made in this thread that I can actually see the merit of. It is indeed illegal for outfits like MIJET to produce and release translations for video games they have no legal right to work with, even if those translations are released for free. Certainly, if any group were to attempt such behavior in regard to a game we owned the rights to or a license for, we would approach them with a cease and desist order. As a company, our position on the matter is clear - we do not and will not support or endorse unauthorized translations of any video game product.

My personal interest in the matter, while stemming from appreciation for the skill and dedication of the programmer(s) involved, is indeed irrelevant when it comes to the legal issue, and I thank you for mentioning this. Such skill and dedication should be put to more respectful tasks, or in the least - otherwise invested until proper permission is granted from the IP holder(s).

Good and cheap repros can play a major role in keeping our retro-consoles interesting and experience lost gems like we would have in the 90ies.

Okay, fine - then when the "reproduction" guys actually start making attempts to contact IP holders and obtain proper legal permission to sell the games they wish to sell, I'll go right along with you in that statement. But brother, I just don't see it happening.

[108 Stars]

A thief is a thief, maybe. Yet a if he does something good for the community where the legal owner of copyrights does not make a game available to western audiences I think that's just fine. These are games long out of print after all, and even the recent rereleases on Virtual Console or compilations disregard the demand for english versions. If the copyright holder does not see the few fans' money as worth the effort, fine. It is out of proportion to condemn people that help players get what copyright holders didn't care to make available for a decade or more.

A license might be the best way; but with the limited sales expectations most of the time not feasible.

The "poor repro maker" is very often a fact, and even if he makes a little money I rather pay him 40 $ instead of 35,76 of exact material cost as thanks.
My gaming world has become richer thanks to games like Monster World IV and King Colossus, and the good repro-makers do outweighs an illegal action without victim.

[madcrow]

In point of fact, many (perhaps even most) makers of translated games don't mind if people produce translation patches for older games that never got released with the West. IIRC, some folks at Square actually sent gifts to some hacker who translated one of their early, previously-untranslated games back in the early 2000s.

Anyways, vis a vis fully approved, commercial translations and other new commercial releases, I do wish that the people making them would sell ROM images for use with emulators. Such a scheme would allow for WAY more people to buy the game as ROM files never go out of print and would also be both cheaper to sell AND more profitable since the sellers don't have to spend tons of money on ROM chips and packaging. Many other retrogaming communities (such as the C64 and Spectrum communities) already work this way, releasing a limited number of physical "deluxe" editions early on, then either selling (usually for about $5) or giving away disk/tape images of the game after sticks of the physical copies run out. If they can do it, why can't SFT and company?

[Guntz]

Anyways, vis a vis fully approved, commercial translations and other new commercial releases, I do wish that the people making them would sell ROM images for use with emulators. Such a scheme would allow for WAY more people to buy the game as ROM files never go out of print and would also be both cheaper to sell AND more profitable since the sellers don't have to spend tons of money on ROM chips and packaging.

I don't think so. The ROM would spread quickly and eventually the game could be had for free instead of buying one from the guys who made it. It's the nature of the internet, and one that will likely never change.

Many other retrogaming communities (such as the C64 and Spectrum communities) already work this way, releasing a limited number of physical "deluxe" editions early on, then either selling (usually for about $5) or giving away disk/tape images of the game after sticks of the physical copies run out. If they can do it, why can't SFT and company?

You forgot something here. The C64 and Spectrum are home computers that used things like cassettes and floppies for data storage. It's very easy to get games onto these mediums which, therefore, makes the sale of ROMs more appealing.

The vast majority of home consoles, on the other hand, use ROM cartridges. Really the only easy way to get ROMs to play on these systems is to buy a flash cart, but these are often hard to find (FlashBoy for Virtual Boy) or prohibitively expensive. The purchasable ROM would end up being used only on emulators and the onset of piracy would develop faster.

... I know the above paragraph doesn't make much sense towards the end, but simply put a purchasable cartridge is a better business move compared to selling a ROM. Mind you I said "business", so I'm really only talking about groups like SFT and WM.

EDIT: You know, I might as well mention this anyways. I don't see anything wrong with SFT, but I kinda like WM better. While yes fixing up, translating and releasing foreign games is a great thing to do for the vintage community, brand new games can be just as awesome.

[retrospiel]

No, fair use does not apply to this.

Yes it does.

If someone would translate a portion for example for educational purposes, yes. A full game, not at all. In the same vain you could translate Stephen King's next novel yourself and put it online for free.

I highlighted the misconception here. A translation of a game is not a full product. It's only a translation of the game's text. There's more to a game than its dialog.

Fair use does not nullify copyright if it's free, that would be insane.

That's not what I meant: Fair use does indeed not affect copyrights in any way. Copyright just doesn't protect your work from people making private non-profit copies. Think of recording a movie on VHS and watching it with your family.

[madcrow]

I don't think so. The ROM would spread quickly and eventually the game could be had for free instead of buying one from the guys who made it. It's the nature of the internet, and one that will likely never change.

So you're saying that it makes better business sense to sell a few hundred copies of a game, but have no piracy than to sell a few THOUSAND copies but also have piracy? Selling a copy of the ROM would open things up to piracy, but it would also open things up to many people who want to buy the game, but can't because they either lack real hardware or are unlucky and miss out on the sales period.

You forgot something here. The C64 and Spectrum are home computers that used things like cassettes and floppies for data storage. It's very easy to get games onto these mediums which, therefore, makes the sale of ROMs more appealing.

The vast majority of home consoles, on the other hand, use ROM cartridges. Really the only easy way to get ROMs to play on these systems is to buy a flash cart, but these are often hard to find (FlashBoy for Virtual Boy) or prohibitively expensive. The purchasable ROM would end up being used only on emulators and the onset of piracy would develop faster.

Hardware for writing C64-format disks on PC hardware isn't very cheap either, though it is true that Spectrum tapes can be made from any computer with a reasonably clean analog sound output. Thus, most people tend to keep their downloads confined to emulation for the home systems as well. Surprisingly, the "scene" is very respectful towards people who sell commercial games for their beloved platforms these days. A lot of software goes uncracked/unreleased by the scene groups until such time as the game either goes out of print or an official freeware release is made (at which point releases with built-in cheat options tend to come forward pretty quickly) Maybe the Sega audience is enough bigger and less closely-knit that people wouldn't follow the rules, but I suspect that if a community made up mainly of former crackers can learn to behave, so can the Genesis world.