Game Sack

[Zoltor]

To me rail shooters are a game where you're actually stuck to the rail, like House of the Dead,
it does bring up an interesting question though, what actually defines the rail shooter genre?

for me Operation Wolf and the Terminator shooter were rail games, but since they are so primitive one could easily say they are just light gun games.

but.. most rail shooters have lightguns, so.. its a broad genre.

but personally I never felt Sin & Punishment was a rail shooter, more like a forced 3rd person platformer,
kinda like Tomb Raider but with a fixed camera.

Its a very close call though, but i guess I don't define rail shooters by how they behave but what they contain,
House of the Dead 1/2/3/etc = Rail Shooter
Jurassic Park The Lost world = Rail Shooter
Virtua Cop = Rail Shooter
Ninja Asault = Rail Shooter
Time Crisis 1/2/3/etc = Rail Shooter

As you can see its all 1st person fixed movement stuff, no 3rd person.

... I guess to me that's the real rail shooter, 1st person fixed movement and no gun on the screen, also should be controlled by a lightgun.

Operation Wolf is definitly a rail shooter, and if your thinking of the old, old Teminator game I am, that is as well.

[Joe Redifer]

I don't think of 2D games as a rail shooter. All light gun games that scroll in any direction must be rail shooters if that's the case. But for me, I define it by going "into" the screen, but with a destination you cannot choose (branching path excepted). But like I said before, those first qualify as light gun games to me. I won't be including light gun games in a rail shooter video. I will, however, include light gun games in a light gun video. I don't think rail shooters have to be 1st person, either. Seems like everybody has different ideas on the genre. Guess what? Nobody is 100% right. They can all be classified as rail shooters. No need to nitpick just because our definition does not match yours. But this is Sega-16, it's what happens here.

[Zoltor]

Yea, scrolling Light gun games, are rail shooters, but not all rail shooters are side scrollers in general(think of your self on a rollercoaster, and you shooting from it, doesn't matter if It's 2D, 3D or whatnot, you just can't walk/move around freely, you're on a rail, in a game like starfox, you're fee to dodge stuff, go over/under stuff, you're not forced to, like a rail shooter would force you to go over/under stuff, and shoot things that are in your path or crash)

[Kollision]

Great episode as usual.
Rail shooter is a polemic definition for some, and for me Silpheed is far from being one of them. It's a pure vertical shooter, the tilted aspect isn't enough to label it as "rail".

[sheath]

Games that use light guns are light gun games. Games that use psuedo 3D or polygonal 3D on set or branching paths while controlling a "shooting" character with a controller of any sort are rail shooters. A game like Operation Wolf is a side scrolling shooter.

[Joe Redifer]

Yeah, that's kind of my school of thought. It is interesting to hear how everyone has their own ideas of what defines a genre, though.

[sheath]

Operation Wolf type games kind of defy my rail shooter genre definition, fortunately any other game of their type are light gun games.

[gamevet]

I believe any behind the player shooter (Starfox, Space Harrier or Panzer Dragoon) is pretty much the defining example of an on-rails shooter. If you can choose to fly in (NESW) any direction, then it is not.

I don't consider Silpheed to be a rail shooter, because it plays like every other overhead shooter. Lightgun shooters are not on-rail shooters, because even thoough your path is pretty much set, it's still a 3rd tier category for the game.

[M4R14NO94]

As always, awesome episode.

And like I said on the YouTube comments, there's this if you want to play Rez HD but don't want to download it (or don't have LIVE)



There was also another Silpheed, but for the 360. It was published by Square Enix and was called Project Sylpheed. No, really. I think it's not like the previous ones, though.

[JDB]

I don't think of 2D games as a rail shooter. All light gun games that scroll in any direction must be rail shooters if that's the case. But for me, I define it by going "into" the screen, but with a destination you cannot choose (branching path excepted). But like I said before, those first qualify as light gun games to me. I won't be including light gun games in a rail shooter video. I will, however, include light gun games in a light gun video. I don't think rail shooters have to be 1st person, either. Seems like everybody has different ideas on the genre. Guess what? Nobody is 100% right. They can all be classified as rail shooters. No need to nitpick just because our definition does not match yours. But this is Sega-16, it's what happens here.

I know when I've been bitchslapped

[Joe Redifer]

That's cuz yer my bitch! :P

There was also another Silpheed, but for the 360.

Yeah, that one's a free roaming shooter that focuses on "character development" or some such (there is a ton of talking as you're flying around). It's not very good. By the way, how do you remember your screen name?

[kool kitty89]

Sylpheed uses FMV backgrounds (some kind of lossless rle, which is why it slows down when the background has a lot of detail). Player and enemies are polygons.
It's possible that they are actually a ton of prerendered sprites (scaled with the ASIC), but it's unlikely, specially the bosses. You'd have to store too much data.

Unless there's some hard programming/development knowledge of how Silpheed actually works, it could still be quite possible that it's using precalculated streaming vector animation for the polygonal stuff (possibly generating the sprite animation that way too).
But, again, the textured stuff (planets/terrain -and 2D parts of the BG) would have to be some sort of lossless compressed stuff. (or uncompressed for that matter -which would also explain the slowdown on texture-heavy areas -way more data than vector animation needs)

Games that use light guns are light gun games. Games that use psuedo 3D or polygonal 3D on set or branching paths while controlling a "shooting" character with a controller of any sort are rail shooters. A game like Operation Wolf is a side scrolling shooter.

Yeah, that's kind of my school of thought. It is interesting to hear how everyone has their own ideas of what defines a genre, though.

I believe any behind the player shooter (Starfox, Space Harrier or Panzer Dragoon) is pretty much the defining example of an on-rails shooter. If you can choose to fly in (NESW) any direction, then it is not.

I don't consider Silpheed to be a rail shooter, because it plays like every other overhead shooter. Lightgun shooters are not on-rail shooters, because even thoough your path is pretty much set, it's still a 3rd tier category for the game.

The whole on-rails designation is necessary most significnatly (and earliest) for 3D/pseudo 3D type 1st or 3rd person shooters to distinguish them from free-roaming 3D/pseudo 3D shooters. (like Star Raiders . . . and those pseudo 3D genres actually predate scrolling vertical/horizontal shooters by a fair margin -fixed/single-screen shooters were very common at that time though)

The term could be applied to conventional scrolling/overhead 2D shooters too (to differentate between autoscrolling vertical/horizontal shooters and free-roaming overhead shooters -like Thunder Force and TFII, or roaming sidecrollers like Defender), but the roaming overhead/2D shooter genre is relatively uncommon/niche, so that distinction is less necessary. (vs on-rails 3D shooters and free 3D shooters/sims which were both relatively common and getting stronger/more popular in the late 80s and through the 90s -both benefiting from the 3D gaming revolution on PCs and consoles)



And in the case of light gun games, since there are few/no roaming/"off rails" style shooters in light gun games, that distinction is even less significant than with 2D scrolling/overhead shooters.
Albeit, you could argue the same thing for 3D light gun shooters. (no need to specifically label them rail shooters rather than "3D light gun shooters" -since they'd been on-rails by nature, with very few exceptions -exceptions would be types of games with conventional roaming control and a light gun controlling aiming/targeting . . . something much more common on wii games or PC games via mouse control ))

[M4R14NO94]

Yeah, that one's a free roaming shooter that focuses on "character development" or some such (there is a ton of talking as you're flying around). It's not very good. By the way, how do you remember your screen name?

'Cause it's also my YouTube name.

[Barone]

Loadstar is the only rail shooter ever made PERIOD.

[Joe Redifer]

'Cause it's also my YouTube name.

Well yeah but to someone like me it looks like random numbers and letters. Though If I squint really hard maybe I see Marianora?