It hurts how unfinished Sonic 3 is

[cowboyscowboys]

Spring Yard zone is fricken amazing Casino Night and Carnival don't even come close (Casino Night is one of my least favorite in Sonic 2 it's saving grace is it's appeal to little kids. Carnival I don't think has any appeal except you appreciate the rest of the zones in S3K's even more)

Think of it like a CD there is only so many hit songs that are gonna be on it Carnival zone is definitely filler (I wish they did a remix of the Aquatic Ruin zone in S3K's would have been epic)

[Ecco]

Spring Yard zone is fricken amazing Casino Night and Carnival don't even come close (Casino Night is one of my least favorite in Sonic 2 it's saving grace is it's appeal to little kids. Carnival I don't think has any appeal except you appreciate the rest of the zones in S3K's even more)

Think of it like a CD there is only so many hit songs that are gonna be on it Carnival zone is definitely filler (I wish they did a remix of the Aquatic Ruin zone in S3K's would have been epic)

maybe it's the drink talking, but when you said that I pictured the Sonic 2 special stages remixed with Aquatic Zone, so that you'd be running down the half-pipe with the waterfalls, Roman arches, and ruins passing overhead.

[Assman]

I just can't imagine how anyone can like Carnival Night Zone. I would always like someone to explain how they possibly like it. lol Worst music, colors, level layout (bumper hell), etc. And it gets destroyed by Casino Night and also Springyard Zone. I even prefer those springyard bonus levels in Game Gear Sonic 1!

I don't how to explain it, really, I just don't genuinely dislike any of the zones from the first 3 games. Carnival Night has nice speed sections, a shitload of hidden giant rings and item monitors, and the idea of suddenly flooding it and turning out the lights in act 2 keeps it interesting for me. There are things that annoy me, like the bumpers, but it's not enough to make me dismiss it as crap.

And while I totally agree with you on Spring Yard, Casino Night actually kinda bores me these days. It might have something to do with the fact that when I got Sonic 2 as a kid, it took me forever to finally be able to get past it, but I've grown tired of it (I still don't genuinely dislike it, though). I guess it doesn't help that Casino Street in Sonic 4 is the same exact thing with worse physics.

[FlackoWeasel]

I dont care how unfinished this is, it's still my biggest fav Sonic game combared to S2 and 1. I dont like S2 sprites and graphics that much. S3 music i like the most and every stage is awesome. My fav is Ice cap, Carnival, Flying battery and Sky Sanctuary

[16bitter]

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to 16bitter again. You need to write my university essay's.

Writing a college paper: still more fun than 3D Blast.

[Rusty Venture]

[knicksfan89]

I dont care how unfinished this is, it's still my biggest fav Sonic game combared to S2 and 1. I dont like S2 sprites and graphics that much. S3 music i like the most and every stage is awesome. My fav is Ice cap, Carnival, Flying battery and Sky Sanctuary

I am glad somebody agrees with me on this

[Orchid87]

Flying battery and Sky Sanctuary

Except, these are S&K levels

[Thenewguy]

I have to say that for me splitting Sonic 3 into 2 parts is one of the most awful decisions (from a gamer and artistic perspective) that Sega ever made, its sounds ridiculous talking about a sonic the hedgehog videogame like this, but I honestly think that Sonic 3 was going to be their 16-bit Sonic magnum opus.

Between the two of them I don't know, both have tradeoffs really, Sonic 3 is a little too short a game to have a save feature, and has an anti-climatic "ending". But Sonic and Knuckles suffers from missing a beginning, it throws you straight into these long and complicated levels straight from the start, the game feels like you're being put into a game at the half way point (which, in essence is exactly what it is doing), and due to the length and complexity of many of its stages it feels like progress is slow, the stages feel that they are more suited to a game with a save feature.

But still, I find that both parts of Sonic 3 kind of kill Sonic the Hedgehog 2 anyway, horrible, oversimplified and lazy game that it was.

[turntablist1210]

I have to disagree with the above poster, allthough i find the power-ups in sonic 3 fun, its Carnival Night zone that lets it down, really tedious, Sonic 2 and Casino Night was much much more fun,

Sonic 2 kills Sonic 3

and dont even get me started on lock-on technology, just another way for Sega to skank you out of your hard earned £££/$$$ (Depending which side of the pond you are)

(I say this having just bid on Sonic 3 on Ebay but dont tell anyone okay!!!)

[kool kitty89]

I know I said this before, but I still feel bad about the split of S3&K.
S&K alone is my favorite Sonic game ever, it has better stages than S3 and it has the proper ending. S3 really feels rushed (because it was rushed) and probably is the biggest wasted opportunity by Sega in it's 16 bit days. I mean yeah, the lock-on stuff works, but am I the only one who thinks that it's cheap and unfair? We could get a single game that is as good as S3 + S&K - the ultimate 16-bit platformer game! Instead we got an early example of episodic content.

Well, at least we got one good game in the end (S&K), that weirdly lacks stuff like Tails, competition mode and battery saves. Anyway S&K >>> Sonic 3 by far, feel free to discuss.

It's a fine game by itself, but awesome when complemented as the full game.

I think it made sense to split them up (and the Sonic 2 lock-on was neat), but they should have released an all-in-one version too. (even if it meant removing the lock-on to save cost)

Well, that, and the timing of when they actually split it and released Sonic 3 alone made less sense. Had it been ready for late fall of 1993 (or even just barely in time for Christmas), it definitely would have made sense to push, but in the less significant late winter/early spring market, it makes a lot less sense (rather like launching the Saturn in May ).

In that respect, one could certainly argue that a complete (24 MBit, non lock-on) Sonic 3 released in fall of 1994 could have been a far better business move. (as far as Knuckles in Sonic 2, perhaps they could just include that in one of the later multicarts, or a special edition of Sonic 2 with that mode included)


So, while I think there could have been a good reason to release Sonic 3 separately, and certainly think it made a good game by itself, the actual context of how it and S&K were released makes that a bit moot.

Sonic3 alone is still better than Sonic2. Only stinker stage in the game is Marble Garden, it just drags on, but Hydrocity and Launch Base are total jawusumness, only stage that compares in Sonic2 is Emerald Hill, all others except Mystic Cave suck (and Bonus stages, those I love). S&K is great, I love Flying Battery, Sandopolis, Sky Sanctuary and Death Egg.
I can already visualize the disagreement that will come

I totally agree, though I also like Sonic 3 alone more than S&K alone (they're awesome together though).

Sonic 2 would have been a lot better with Sonic 3 style saves (or even passwords to keep things cheap -or release a CD version using the built-in B-SRAM). Of course, there are cheats to the same effect, but that's not the normal game, and not something everyone had access to back then. (and it's still not the same as saving your progress in the game)

Part of the problem with S&K alone is lack of saves, though it also feels a bit off in other ways. (that, and I don't really like Mushroom Hill Zone, so it gave a bad first impression, especially compared to Angel Island Zone)

[Aarzak]

The decision to split the games in two, although "necessary" according to Sonic Team (this is the prime example of SoJ never wanting to invest in anything bigger than 24 MEGA POWER carts) hurt sales for both games, as Sonic 3 came out during a lull period in early 1994, with S&K coming out just 9 months later. With the latter, the gaming media was already giving off the vibe that they were tiring of the Sonic formula, as opposed to the near-universal praise that they gave S3. Then DKC came out a month after S&K and single-handedly spanked both games' total sales.....if that S3&K cart hadn't fallen through, they should've released it that '94 holiday season to compete against DKC. Me thinks that Sega got too cocky off of the success of Sonic 2, and pulled off this stunt. That or the aforementioned "no carts bigger than 24 MEGA POWER" unofficial rule that SoJ had for Mega Drive games.

[zetastrike]

Carnival Night is the only blemish on S3. The one thing that bothers me the most about it is the complete drabness of the graphics. I think Casino Night is the best looking zone from the four genesis titles with its neon signs, brightly lit skyscrapers, lighted traffic on the streets, and multicolored stars. Carnival is so boring looking that I never even noticed that it had a background until recently. The music is also cringeworthy. The stage theme from the PC S&K collection is actually pretty good. That being said, that's the only zone I don't like from the game. S1, 2, and S&K all have more than one that I don't care for.

[Lan-Di]

I liked Sonic 3 better for a few reasons. The play system was changed slightly when they made S&K, they also removed the hip-hop theme from the mid-boss battles and took away that cool ending theme and also they remove super Sonic once you got the S&K portion of the game. I know why they did it.. but WHY?

[Tiddles]

You can keep Super Sonic throughout the second half if you want - just never touch one of the flashing giant rings, and the chaos emeralds won't be taken away. Alternatively, just get all the super emeralds in Mushroom Hill and you'll be without for less than a zone.

Here's an alternative viewpoint: It helps how unfinished Sonic 3 is.

Personally - and I realise this isn't going to be a common view point - I was fascinated by the unfinished parts; the fact you could see these blocked off routes (that would turn out to be Knuckles'), that debug mode listed additional zones, that bugs, along with level select and debug, let you begin to understand how the game hangs together, and explore those blocked paths, and wonder what the point was. I always seem to like games that were meant to be more than they ended up being precisely because of the idea you get that the game world isn't just a linear path drawn for you, but that there's more to it lurking in the background.

It's not as if that'd motivate sales or reviews or placate Sonic 2 players who expected more than six zones, or the sense of raw speed some of its early zones fostered, or the (frankly unfair) difficulty of a zone like Metropolis. But there's probably a few people out there like me who appreciated Sonic 3 for what it wasn't as much as what it was.