SNES vertical line issue

[Ace]

While I never saw this line on my TV, I did notice it while doing video capture. And this issue doesn't just affect real Super NES consoles, it also affects hardware clones of the Super NES. I've seen this on the FC3 Plus, the RetroN3, the RetroDuo and the FC Twin, all of which share the same clone chipset. Possible flaw with one of the PPUs? I'm thinking it is as Super NES hardware clones use a single chip to replicate the twin PPUs of the Super NES.

[Joe Redifer]

That's interesting that the clones would have it, too. They cloned everything, even the flaws.

[ooXxXoo]

Seen the line, I've always though its a PPU flaw...

Also seen it on SNES/SFC clones (the chipsets are 1:1 copies of the original PPU's)

[TmEE]

I did not manage to open up my SNES to do some further testing, also RGB is not going through the RGB encoder in SNES, there's a relatively complex buffering circuit used in SNES for RGB lines, and I don't really recall the output going into the encoder chip, at least not in case of my SFC...
SNES do suffer from dying caps, but they affect sound rather than video...

[io.]

Hi,

I have tested with the same 3 games you gave and many others and I REALLY did not see any vertical line. Even after changing TV (SONY Trinitron) settings (contrast, luminosity, colors). I can take pics if you want.
It's a PAL SNIN with RGB cable and a switchless mod', I have tested both in 50 and 60 Hz.
May be it only affects NTSC TV.

[genesisguy]

I have a later SNES model 1. The one where the cart doesn't lock in and I believe it has the revised motherboard. It has that line and it is kind of annoying. Annoying like the jailbars on my nes top loader, the weird verticle color lines on my Gensis model 1s on black and blue screens, or the jailbars on some of my Genesis model 2s.

I wasn't an SNES player back in the day so I don't know if it's something that has always been there or if this is a new issue due to aging hardware. If it's always been there I guess getting used to it like all the other aforementioned glitches on the other consoles is something I just need to do. But if it is cause of aging well then my NES is in better shape than it's younger SNES son.

[KnightWarrior]

I saw the line on my Retro Duo...

[Joe Redifer]

On NES games or SNES games (or both)?

[ceramiclion]

I just noticed this line in mines just now. Its not very easy to see you have to know its there to see it. Nintendo always uses strange ways to output video so i guess thi sis one side effect.

[Joe Redifer]

Not as strange as Sega's video output methods. My video capture device likes the SNES well enough but it distorts the hell out of Genesis colors (overbright) and does this to the Master System as well.

[Ace]

Not as strange as Sega's video output methods. My video capture device likes the SNES well enough but it distorts the hell out of Genesis colors (overbright) and does this to the Master System as well.

At least it's better than what my new capture device does when passing the video from a Genesis or Master System into it. Take a look at this snapshot I took of what the video looks like on my Nomad when I feed its Composite video into my capture device's Composite input:



Just look at this f***ing mess! Yet, when I feed the S-Video out of a RetroN3 or a Genesis modified for S-Video into the S-Video input...



The picture is perfect! And look at how good the colors are(this shot is from an S-Video modded VA3 Genesis Model 1).

Joe, does your capture device have an S-Video input? If it does, you might want to put together or find a passthrough cable to pass the Genesis' Composite video into the S-Video input of your capture device. It actually works on my capture device, but compared to true S-Video, it looks pretty damn ugly. The capture device in question was used for this comparison video I uploaded of the RetroN3 Version 2:



While the color information comes up right on the Genesis, there's some pretty noticeable smearing, luma artifacts and A LOT of rainbow artifacts. It still looks better than simply passing Composite into the Composite input.

Even Geniclones have the same problem. My GN Twin, my FC3 Plus and my friend's RetroN3 Version 2(which I have with me as he wants me to modify the Super NES side as it is absolutely disgusting) all show completely screwed up colors when their Composite video is passed into the capture device's Composite input(and they all use different GOACs - TecToy-580G in the GN Twin, TCT6035 in the FC3 Plus and TCT-6801 in the RetroN3 Version 2).

I still find it funny how I never saw the big vertical line in the middle of the Super NES' video output on either my 27" Electrohome CRT TV using either Composite or S-Video, or on my Commodore 1084S using either Composite or RGB, yet when sending the video feed into the capture device, I can see the vertical line.

[sheath]

I've been forced to use a Composite to S-Video adapter or preferably an S-Video splitter/amplifier for years now because of the above problem. Hauppauge and Avermedia both responded that they do not support recording from game consoles when I sent them pictures of what their capture cards do with Master System and Genesis/X'Eye/Nomad Composite outputs.

[TmEE]

I have to turn off macrovision shit in my capture card for MD footage to get good colors back, otherwise it looks like a big funky mess much like what Ace showed... I'm not sure how the macrovision shit works but it seems to be that when it finds some weird sync or color signal strength then the card is made to spaz out...
My capture card has whole bunch of other issues, namely being lots of digital processing noise in the video (there's a bunch of vertical bands that show "static")

[Sik]

I'm not sure how the macrovision shit works but it seems to be that when it finds some weird sync or color signal strength then the card is made to spaz out...

Not sure, but as far as I know, it uses color data sent during vblank.

[roguetrip]

Back on topic

I've noticed this for awhile with 2 SNES (originals) with S-Video.

Has anyone bothered to test the same games through Emulation to make sure its a hardware issue? It probably is just makes me ponder.

It reminds me a Ground loop on cable except they are horizontal bands that move vertically usually.