The Controller Thread - A little place to talk of human interface devices...

[Guntz]

I just wanted to post some thoughts about some of the controllers I've used and felt a general thread for controller discussion would be a good place to leave them.

If it has a human interface (in other words, buttons, triggers, d-pads, sticks etc), then it can be discussed here. That includes handheld systems, not detachable controllers.

PS1 Dual Shock

I'm not sure if I've openly said here before that I'm not a fan of PlayStation hardware (which for a long time, was the case), but recently as I've collected up PS1/2 controllers in case any more of them break over time (have had that happen, flimsy cabling), and I've grown a soft spot for the gray PS1 Dual Shock controllers. They may be uncomfortable and have ridiculous symbol buttons instead of the industry standard alphabet or numerical buttons, but I love the feel of the buttons and usually the D-Pad isn't too terrible. On the original Dual Shock, at least I can pivot and rock the D-Pad which I can't say the same of other Sony systems (like the PSP 1000). I also find the analog sticks surprisingly decent, despite the convex surface of the cap. They are very smooth and unusually not very jerky, like the GameCube and Xbox sticks. I would say the Dual Shock sticks are a step down from the N64 stick, which when brand new and lubricated is the king of analog sticks. Why I prefer the PS1 Dual Shock over the PS2 version is the gray color, quality of the plastic shell and... It's gray color. The PS1 and Game Boy (original) easily have the best shades of gray out of any other system imaginable. It's hard to explain why I like the PS1 Dual Shock all of a sudden... Considering how common they are, I keep thinking of buying adapters for other systems. I'm starting to lose hope in finding replacement Xbox controllers (again, flimsy cabling), so maybe I'll use PSX ones instead.

A small question though, I've heard there exists a PS1 analog controller without rumble, but it's very uncommon. Is this true?

SMS Controller

Over the years I've heard an unusual amount of dislike and hate towards this controller. Why? It's a very nice little pad, the D-Pad is pretty decent and the two buttons and rather unique with their funky plastic feel. I've heard some say the quality of this pad differs based on where it was manufactured. My Taiwan pads are pretty good overall, no complaints. The D-Pads are both in good shape and they aren't wearing out. Kind of hard to talk much about this one though, since it has only two buttons and a D-Pad. It feels like a neutered NES or TG16 pad. It's also much smaller out of the three. Start and Select would have been nice, or whatever Sega may have called them. Only two buttons and a pause button on the console is very limiting. I'm wondering if the pause button was a carry-over from the SG-1000 or other older Sega systems, where the system-mounted pause button was just inherent of the design, kind of like how the SMS has the old and ancient video modes of the older Sega systems (which the Genesis dropped in it's SMS support).

N64 Controller

Around the internet is an almost unanimous hatred for this controller. I don't get what the big deal is. For it's time and still today, it was a good controller. It came from an era where the future of the industry was uncertain, untried and largely unexplored. The reason why the N64 controller is so weird is the same reason why so many of our classic series were left in the past, or didn't make the 3D transition very well. A new era meant new ideas, whether they were good or bad. Considering how non-standard the N64 controller is, it's very high quality regardless. Yes, even the stick, it just suffered from a design flaw. With some lubrication before any damage has occurred (silicon-based lubes are really good), the stick can remain fantastic for a very long time. All three handles are very comfortable to hold, the controller's large size works well for large hands, the buttons and triggers are good, the Z trigger is absolutely kick ass and the D-Pad is one of the best Nintendo's ever had. It's all around a great controller, just very, very misunderstood. Most reasons to hate the controller are unfounded and based on misconceptions and prejudice, much like the console itself.

[TrekkiesUnite118]

I have no problem with the N64 controller. I think people's dislike with it now is based on them going back and trying it now when they are no longer used to it.

I hate the Playstation style controller though. The buttons are too mushy and flat, and the angles just aren't very comfortable.

Now the Saturn 3D pad is a very functional and comfortable controller. Same goes for the Model 2 standard pad.

[eddiespruce]

I hate the Playstation style controller though. The buttons are too mushy and flat, and the angles just aren't very comfortable.

I agree, The D-Pad is just awful, moving diagonally was very cramping on my thumb.

Rep'd

[Obviously]

I love the Dual Shock, never had one break on me though I know a few people who have. Like everyone else I hate the D-Pad and I have no idea why Sony kept using the same horrible design. It's like they were trying to pressure developers into using analog controls just to avoid using the damned thing. I also think the buttons are a tad soft.

Can't say I like the SMS or NES controller I'm not a fan of the small rectangular controllers. I've got huge hands and they really cause me to cramp after a while. I actually had to put Nerf armor on my Nintendo DS not to protect it but to make it more comfortable for me to hold. I'm one of the few people who liked the original X-Box controller because it actually fit my grip.

I've stated my dislikes of the N64 controller on the forum here recently already. It's just not for me, and unlike my experience with Playstation controllers I've broken the analog stick on more than one of these suckers. No matter how I hold it I feel awkward doing so. Again, maybe the problem is my hands and not the controller but I really don't like it. I know aesthetics should be less important than ergonomics but since it never really felt right to me anyway I have no qualms saying the thing is just hideous looking.

Another controller I really hate, and it's on a system I really love, is the Dreamcast. The D-Pad is crap, the single analog stick has that texture on it that hurts my thumb in long play sessions, the triggers feel cheap and the other buttons have always felt a little mushy to me. The VMU thing is cool though packing two in there makes the controller a little heavy and having the cord come out of the bottom is kind of annoying. Like the N64 controller I also feel it's not much of a looker. It kind of feels like a screwed up, cheapened version of the Saturn 3D controller I think.

I don't even own an X-Box 360 but I really like the controller. It's comfortable and its got nice buttons. Another favorite of mine is the original Genesis 3 button. Amazing d-pad and really solid buttons. The 6-button is fine too but I don't like that they made it a little smaller. I also really dig the Saturn controllers.

[eddiespruce]

Another controller I really hate, and it's on a system I really love, is the Dreamcast. The D-Pad is crap, the single analog stick has that texture on it that hurts my thumb in long play sessions, the triggers feel cheap and the other buttons have always felt a little mushy to me. The VMU thing is cool though packing two in there makes the controller a little heavy and having the cord come out of the bottom is kind of annoying. Like the N64 controller I also feel it's not much of a looker. It kind of feels like a screwed up, cheapened version of the Saturn 3D controller I think.

I just got a Dreamcast recently and I actually like the controller very much. The reason you may find it uncomfortable is because, as you said, you have big hands. My fingers are short, and my thumbs are quite skinny for an adult male, so maybe that's why I like the Dreamcast controller so much.

[sheath]

I see the PS1 Dual Shock, N64 and Master System controllers as equally awkward and equally suited for what few games were actually designed for them. The Master System controller only has issues with games that fail to recognize its ability to handle diagonals. Many exclusive Master System games play better with the SMS pad than they do with Genesis pads because of this.

The N64 controller is nifty, but I have played Mario Kart and Super Mario 64 with a Saturn pad and on a Nintendo DS with no trouble. Golden Eye 64 was much harder to program to the stock Saturn pad, but that didn't stop Lobotomy from making "Turok Style" controls for its Saturn FPSs.

The PS1 Dual Shock was a me too effort by Sony. To my knowledge, only one of the later Armored Core games legitimately use both analog sticks and all of the buttons. I also always found it laughable that Sony released the Dual Analog Pad, and then the Dual Shock Pad, and Sony fans never considered this a rip off add-on.

[StarMist]

PS (standard) pad = too small. Also, the humps supporting the L and Rs should be on the back of the controller, not the top: having them on the top forces one to hold it as actors do in advertisements, as if it's a new brand of soap whose label must be shown off. The d-pad's awful, but none of its forebears were particularly good.
(Dual Shock) = the sticks work pretty well and are comfortably placed; need to be scored for grip, but then so does the d-pad. That very few games use both sticks is immaterial, as more offer a choice to use either and part of the design is for visual appeal--which doesn't matter once out of the shop, but by then Sony couldn't care less.

DC pad = a total abortion. Its one grace is the cleated joystick, yet an amazing # of games disregard its existence, leading me to suspect there's something wrong with the chipboard or some more abstruse element that affects programming; being as high on the controller as it is it also tends to veer. The d-pad's a high relief version of the PS's, making it worse. L and R are very difficult to reach w/o using one's fingertips--ie the opposite of what would be expected from a trigger. The VMUs are a mess; as with the PS2's memory card system very few games allow one to load from either, most loading automatically, and they hold fairly few files; worse than the PS2 setup though, most games save automatically, meaning saves can easily get overwritten when unwanted due to having to switch VMUs. That they beep is just obnoxious. The cord has to be rubberbanded to a VMU to stay in place. Based on the Saturn 3D pad but shaped more to fit in one's palms, with the result that it's a sweat magnet: white controllers that quickly encrust with human detritus. Also prone to wire-crossing when wrapped, which shorts the system's controller board.

N64 pad = vastly uncomfortable owing to the prong setup. However the basic scheme, particulalry with the Z button, is good.

3D0 (Real) = off all round, with a barebones design. Pleasantly solid though.
(Goldstar) = successfully emulates the SNES pad, with a better d-pad. Also pleasantly solid.
(all models) = the linkage for 2P sucks. Why would I want my opponent physically attached to my means of playing the game?

Saturn (standard) pad = overrated. The left heel's much too small and the triggers degrade.
(3D) = pretty good other than for fighting games. Nice feel; superior shape to its descendant.

Genesis (3 button) pad = underrated. Despite that every button degrades it does have a larger (better) d-pad than everything afterwards and a Start button where it should be: right by the other buttons.
(6 button) = much overrated, particularly for fighting games. Ahead of the curve, at least, and helpful for every game that supported it, but in nowise equivalent to a joystick.

Xbox pad = best features are giving the analogue stick pride of place over the d-pad and making the Start button reachable at a pinch. Stick wobbles a bit.

SNES pad = buy a Capcom stick. Even for DKC.

[xelement5x]

I have no problem with the N64 controller. I think people's dislike with it now is based on them going back and trying it now when they are no longer used to it.

I hate the Playstation style controller though. The buttons are too mushy and flat, and the angles just aren't very comfortable.

Now the Saturn 3D pad is a very functional and comfortable controller. Same goes for the Model 2 standard pad.

I also LOVE the Saturn 3D pad. My least favorite would probably be the Gamecube though, it's got some good points but is still a bit kludgey compared to others, and the DualShock's analog sticks have always felt tacked on to me.


By parts though:
In the Saturn 3D pad, the floating orb for the analog control is probably one of the best I've ever used.
For face buttons, the diamond configuration (SNES, Sony controllers, etc) is my favorite since it's intuitive to interact with that way. Two rows of three aren't cool.
For shoulder buttons, I like the bumper/trigger dynamic that the 360 controller has though, it's a lot easier to use both of them fluidly instead of resting between the two like on DualShocks.

There's no perfect controller, but there are a lot of good ideas for individual iterations though. Someone should make a super controller someday that combines them all

[old man]

The original PCengine/TG16 controller is one of my favorites. It's like an upgrade of the NES pad. I have an NES pad made by a company called beeshu that is a lot like the TG16 pads and is awesome (or it was till I wore the thing plumb ass out). I really need to get another of those.

I think the N64 is superior to the DC controller, but they're both still in the same crap heap together.

I like the Dual Shock and all it's iterations. I would say it's a very universal and practical controller, a logical successor to the SNES.

The second Xbox controller is great. I played the original on a kioske and the "Duke" cramped the shit out of my hands in just a few minutes. The 2nd version makes me think of what a good sega controller should have been. I hate the funky shaped buttons though. It's the triggers and sticks where it really shines.

The GameCube controllers C Stick and dpad both suck. They're too small. Other than that it's so comfortable it almost flies under the radar.

[Clessy]

There are only 2 great controllers.

Sega 6 buttons in all there flavors. Rather is be the genesis or the saturn controller or simply just one of the saturn 6 buttons they've made for other systems. The 6 button style that they invented has become the standard for 2d fighters for people who dont know how to use a stick.

The other control is the 360 controller. This is the evolutionary root of the snes controller into the ps1 controller into what became the best all arounder. The only thing wrong with this is the pos dpad. However this is a current trend. No controller has had a good dpad since the Sega Saturn.

A controller I love the design of but hate the quality of is the Dreamcast controller. It hugs your hands perfectly and feels great in your hands. The issue is once you start to use it. The face buttons jam up all the time and feel mushy because simply put they're cheap as shit. The dpad is a joke. Its utterly useless and way to small. The analog stick has those little nums and its not recessed in. So it drives into your hands.

The Nes and master system are the worst controllers ever. Whoever thought holding a sharp rectangle was a good idea was a idiot.

[kool kitty89]

I hate the Playstation style controller though. The buttons are too mushy and flat, and the angles just aren't very comfortable.

By "too flat" do you mean the buttons are too short or shallow? Having a flat surface usually isn't a problem (I prefer concave, but flat is better than convex), but my problems are that the PSX buttons are too shallow/short-throw (bottom out against the controller casing when you press them) and they're too stiff (or they feel stiff due to bottoming out). The N64 and Master System had pretty flat buttons too, but both worked great. (SNES -aside from NTSC-U- had all convex buttons, but were still decent -I much prefer the NES/US SNES concave buttons though -I modded my SNES pad to use all 4 concave)

My other problem with the PSX pad (aside from the d-pad) is the grips and general shape . . . the grips are too short for larger hands (and not that great for shorter hands even -compared to the N64 or Dreamcast, which also are a bit short for large hands but are far nicer to hold IMO), and the one major step in the right direction (the original Dual analog controller's extended grips) was abandoned with the standardization of the dual shock.

What's also interesting is that short grips can actually be worse than no "horn" type grips at all: short grips (at least for me) force some fingers to hang beyond the end of the grips, and those fingers tend to cramp during extended play (from tight gripping of the controller -with the trailing fingers having nothing to grasp). OTOH, fro flatter gamepads like the SNES or Genesis ones, your fingers are already naturally closer to your palm, so they don't curl and cramp as with hanging off the end of grips. (the SNES pad also has a slight cupped shape for better grip, the Genesis pads -3 and 6 button- are significantly better still in that regard -Jaguar controller is pretty nice too, though closer to proper grips due to the size and thickness)

Now the Saturn 3D pad is a very functional and comfortable controller. Same goes for the Model 2 standard pad.

I agree on the 3D pad . . . just a few tweaks and it would have been fine for the next generation. (as it was, it was already better than the DC pad )

I don't care for the model 2 pad that much though. It's a good pad, but it's worse in almost every way compared to the 6 button Genesis pad. (texture feels worse -and cheap, d-pad is very slightly worse feeling, shape/grip is significantly less comfortable IMO, and the shoulder buttons just aren't very usable -given how comfortable the mode button is to use, it would seem like the old 6 button pad would have accepted proper shoulder buttons rather well)

N64 pad = vastly uncomfortable owing to the prong setup. However the basic scheme, particulalry with the Z button, is good.

Please explain how it's uncomfortable to hold.

My only problem with it (in terms of just holding the thing) is that my hands feel a bit too close together when using the center and right prong (ie most 3D games), though that didn't used to be a problem when I was a kid. (I have hands well above average size though . . . enough to really like the Xbox duke )
In spite of that, it's still more comfortable to hold than the PSX pads IMO.

Xbox pad = best features are giving the analogue stick pride of place over the d-pad and making the Start button reachable at a pinch. Stick wobbles a bit.

Duke or S? I really like the duke . . . don't really like the S at all, worse than the GC pad, better than dual shock IMO. (for me, personally, the duke was the best of that console generation for 1st party standard controllers -not that it couldn't have been better . . . the d-pad was well placed and reasonably comfortable but a bit sloppy, and the face buttons could have been arranged a bit more like the Sega 6 button or N64 -and used flat-ish or concave buttons)

Apart from the moderately uncomfortable size/shape (and triggers) of the S, there was the annoying placement of the start/select buttons (and black/white buttons -though having them so far out on the duke was also a bit annoying), the analog sticks don't feel quite as good, and the face buttons and d-pad weren't really improved either. (the face buttons are flatter, but also shallower and not really more comfortable)

[Bastardcat]

My main gripe with the SMS pad, is that the pause button is inconveniently placed on the console...right next to "reset". I've lost count the number of times, while I was either tired or distracted, I pressed "reset" instead by mistake. Also, the cord coming out of the side of it feels likes its in the way. Its like someone looked at the NES pad and went "How can I make a shitty version of this?"

[TrekkiesUnite118]

The Genesis 6 button is ok, it's just a bit too small for my liking. The Saturn Model 2 pad is just the right size for my hands.

What I meant by the Playstation buttons being too flat is that they don't stick out far enough and they don't press down far enough. They are almost flush with the plastic casing around them and have a very mushy feel when you push them. They are barely a step up from the buttons on the Odyssey2's Keypad.

[Waterfaller]

I LOVE the Gamecube controller. I guess I like how "simplified" it feels, I guess would be the word to use, with B and A being more prominent, and X and Y sort of underplayed on the face buttons, and I love the springiness of the L and R trigger... I WILL say I think the Z trigger is still a bit odd though. And the digital pad is FAR too small, and the cord is rather short compared to its competitors. The best thing about it though is that the Gamecube controller works AWESOMELY when playing N64 games on the Wii!

The Xbox S controller is also awesome. It fits comfortably in my hand and I prefer the asymmetrical layout of the analog sticks rather than the symmetrical ones on the Playstations. It took me a while to get used to the black and white buttons, and the start and back buttons beneath the controller, but after that it became second nature. The only bad thing about these controllers is buying them secondhand from someone who doesn't realize you need the breakaway cable to actually CONNECT it to the system

I'll post more as more thoughts come to me.

[TheSonicRetard]

My main gripe with the SMS pad, is that the pause button is inconveniently placed on the console...right next to "reset". I've lost count the number of times, while I was either tired or distracted, I pressed "reset" instead by mistake. Also, the cord coming out of the side of it feels likes its in the way. Its like someone looked at the NES pad and went "How can I make a shitty version of this?"

The model 1 SMS pads had the cord coming out of the top. These are the kind which had the screw-on thumbstick that was only good for turning your thumbs purple. And a few games (but not enough) would map button 1 on controller 2 to pause. Wonderboy III, for example, does this since you're gonna need to access your status screen near constantly in the game.

If we're gonna talk about controller, I have to give a shout-out to the Honey Bee/Competition Pro Amiga CD32 pad. The official Amiga CD32 pad is pretty much trash - feels cheap and uncomfortable in my hands. However, from everything i've read, the Competition Pro pad was overwhelmingly more popular to the point where it's the unofficial "official" CD32 pad of choice for many.



First thing you'll notice is that it's a massive rip off of the Sege Genesis 3-button stock controller. In actuality, there are a bunch of small differences in the shape of the pad - noticeably, the pad is much flatter than a Genesis 3-button stock controller. Where the genesis controller has a fat hump in the middle of the controller, the CD32 pad lays flat, giving it a strange feeling. The best I can describe is that it looks like a Genesis pad, but feels like a PC Engine Duo 6-button controller (if anyone has any experience with that).

Beyond that there is obviously 6 buttons in SNES format along with 7 autofire switches (6 for the buttons, including both shoulder buttons, and 1 for the dual pause buttons). At first glance, there placing of two pause buttons right next to each other (on the bottom left portion of the pad, under the autofire switches) makes no sense, since they're the same button with no difference in function. The reason the controller is laid out like this is because the shell they created for the competition pro serves both the SNES and Amiga CD32 version of the pad - the SNES Competition Pro controller looks identical to the Amiga CD32 version (albeit with different face button icons).

Speaking of face buttons - the ones on the competition pro are awful. The CD32 color coded their buttons rather than labeling them with traditional letters or numbers - there is no 1 or A button, there is instead a red button. On a stock CD32 controller, the button color is prominent, with a small symbol on the plastic of the controller beside the button providing a secondary label, like "fast forward" or "shuffle" or "select." Obviously these are OSD/UI labels, and shouldn't really be considered for labeling in-game. The competition pro, however, combines the two. Each face button has the symbol from the plastic of the stock CD32 pad on the face of the button, in the color of said button. So, for example, the green button is labeled "1-3-2" (the symbol for shuffle) and the label is in green.

This isn't a huge detriment but there are two concerns with it - first, the symbols used are confusing and ugly. When I see 1-3-2, I don't think shuffle, for example. There are two rounded squared icons on two different buttons - one is supposed to be stop, and one is supposed to be repeat, but they look very similar save for the color. This causes confusion. And, the biggest problem, is that the main button, the select button, has an icon which makes no sense. It's supposed to be "select" yet it's icon is a vertical arrow, perpendicular to a horizontal line. How the hell does that convey select? At first glance, it looks like an ugly, malformed number 1 with a serif font.

Again, this isn't a huge problem, since the symbols are in their correct color, but the symbols are also small. The majority of each face of the button is grey, rather than the color you're supposed to hit. Still, if you're able to get used to the PSX controller, the competition pro controller isn't hard to pick up. All in all, small nibbles aside, it's a pretty good controller. It certainly feels console quality, and the shape of both the Genesis pad with the SNES pad layout makes it feel foreign, yet familiar at the same time. Holding the controller gives you that same deja vu feeling you get the first time you hold a Turbo Duo or SMS controller in your hand. I recommend it to every Amiga owner so strongly, it's by far the best controller available on the system.