Question about the Genesis Launch

[evilevoix]

I could never beat that game, I finally did with a game genie. Too many cheap hits brought me down.

[kool kitty89]

BTW did you guys in the US ever get a Castle of Illusion pack-in later on? we got a Castle of Illusion pack in Britain in 1991 just before they started packing in Sonic, this was the pack my family actually bought.

That would have been great, but especially if they'd done that before Christmas of 1990. (a well-known character, very good graphics/animation and sound, good gameplay . . . and even if labeled a "kiddie" game, you couldn't deny how good it looked or played for the time -plus, even if kiddie, it wasn't "weird" or "too Japanese" -Alex kidd has those against it as well as being a mediocre game in general)
Plus, having a family-friendly game was a big issue too, even if Sega was trying to differentiate itself from Nintendo. (and establishing Sega as producing quality Disney games would be significant too -as they did indeed have a long line of quality Disney games, both from Sega and 2nd/3rd parties -with a few bad examples like Fantasia)

Altered beast was a decent pack-in from the limited launch titles available (again, Gn'G would be the only one to make more sense overall -and even then you've got the issues of smaller sprites, no speech, etc), but even by the end of 1989 there were better examples to showcase as the standard pack-ins (Golden Axe and Revenge of Shinobi are big ones). But for Christmas of 1990, Castle of Illusion was probably the best game they could have chosen -though, perhaps also alternate "arcade pack" bundles, and obviously the sports bundles -too bad Joe Montana wasn't ready before that Christmas)

[StarMist]

They should've left it at Alex Kidd. Only with his JP style SonSon like cover pic. The only faults here are that naysayers could find SMB similarities where they wanted despite the actually vast separation betwixt the two, and the childishness which CoI would too have provided; either would have been very sensible.

Golden Axe was way too strong a seller to waste on packing in.

Space Harrier II had many counterparts on the NES including Space Harrier. The Genesis graphics are obviously superior yet its appeal was narrower and conversion poorer--it sucks with such a low framerate.

AB on Arcade has slightly larger sprites overall and a few much larger sprites (eg the blob in the marsh lv). Of course the audio samples are better, the play smoother, &c, but on the whole it's a strong port.

[sheath]

I've always had a hard time deciding which version of Altered Beast I liked best.

[Gunstar Zero]

I like how each of those versions has some strengths and weaknesses....yet in EVERY SINGLE ONE...The two headed wolves STILL look like pigs.

[DaddyMulk]

From what I can tell absolutely solid information from 1989 does not exist. It is unlikely that the Genesis was in all stores, much less all cities, by the end of the year. By combining sources I have been able to compile a list of games that were available for the Genesis by the end of 1989.

Most of them have months included if you click on them, but I suspect all of the months in release dates are anecdotal for the 90s. Off hand all of those games should be launch games (wherever the launch was in the US).

Despite the fact that release dates weren't necessarily as solid/publicized in 1989, the Genesis did have a definitive launch lineup. I actually have an old article from USA Today that I'll try to scan and upload soon that takes a look at the full initial lineup. In addition to Altered Beast, the games available alongside the system initially were Space Harrier II, Last Battle, Super Thunder Blade, Tommy Lasorda Baseball, and Thunder Force II. Second controllers were NOT available on Day 1 (at least in my area), which led to about a month of playing 2-player AB with Player 2 burdened with an Atari 2600 joystick. They were out around October, when Ghouls 'n Ghosts was released.

After that, my memory gets a little bit hazy, but here's a rough rundown of when those other earlier titles were released:

Alex Kidd: Feb/Mar 90
Arnold Palmer: No recollection
Forgotten Worlds: Dec 89
Golden Axe: Jan/Feb 90
Herzog Zwei: Mar/Apr 90
Mystic Defender: Dec 89
Phantasy Star II: Mar 90
Rambo III: Dec 89
Revenge of Shinobi: Jan 90
Super Hang On: Nov/Dec 89
Truxton: Feb/Mar 90
World Championship Soccer: Dec 89 (priced at $39.99. BOMBA!)
Zoom!: 1st Q 90

I either purchased or was given a lot of these early releases right around the time of their release, so I have a pretty vivid memory of roughly when they came out. (for example, SHO and Rambo III were both presents from Christmas 89, so they definitely made it out that year) I think Golden Axe may have been my second Internet (well, okay, CompuServe) purchase ever.

As for why AB became the pack-in, I think the general consensus of it being a flashy arcade port with huge sprites is accurate, though I'd also put forward that it was the most appealing/accessible of the launch titles. Platform-style action games tend to have a broader appeal over shooters, so that rules out TFII, Thunder Blade and Space Harrier. Lasorda was obviously out, due to the double-whammy of being a sports title (not a big deal at all at the time) and the likelihood that they would have had to pay the man himself additional royalties. Last Battle would not have necessarily been a bad choice, but it definitely wasn't as flashy as AB and lacked any name recognition.

[kool kitty89]

Despite the fact that release dates weren't necessarily as solid/publicized in 1989, the Genesis did have a definitive launch lineup. I actually have an old article from USA Today that I'll try to scan and upload soon that takes a look at the full initial lineup. In addition to Altered Beast, the games available alongside the system initially were Space Harrier II, Last Battle, Super Thunder Blade, Tommy Lasorda Baseball, and Thunder Force II. Second controllers were NOT available on Day 1 (at least in my area), which led to about a month of playing 2-player AB with Player 2 burdened with an Atari 2600 joystick. They were out around October, when Ghouls 'n Ghosts was released.

After that, my memory gets a little bit hazy, but here's a rough rundown of when those other earlier titles were released:

Alex Kidd: Feb/Mar 90
Arnold Palmer: No recollection
Forgotten Worlds: Dec 89
Golden Axe: Jan/Feb 90
Herzog Zwei: Mar/Apr 90
Mystic Defender: Dec 89
Phantasy Star II: Mar 90
Rambo III: Dec 89
Revenge of Shinobi: Jan 90
Super Hang On: Nov/Dec 89
Truxton: Feb/Mar 90
World Championship Soccer: Dec 89 (priced at $39.99. BOMBA!)
Zoom!: 1st Q 90

I either purchased or was given a lot of these early releases right around the time of their release, so I have a pretty vivid memory of roughly when they came out. (for example, SHO and Rambo III were both presents from Christmas 89, so they definitely made it out that year) I think Golden Axe may have been my second Internet (well, okay, CompuServe) purchase ever.

As for why AB became the pack-in, I think the general consensus of it being a flashy arcade port with huge sprites is accurate, though I'd also put forward that it was the most appealing/accessible of the launch titles. Platform-style action games tend to have a broader appeal over shooters, so that rules out TFII, Thunder Blade and Space Harrier. Lasorda was obviously out, due to the double-whammy of being a sports title (not a big deal at all at the time) and the likelihood that they would have had to pay the man himself additional royalties. Last Battle would not have necessarily been a bad choice, but it definitely wasn't as flashy as AB and lacked any name recognition.

RF Generation lists a lot more releases for 1989, and slightly more than Sheath's list too.

http://www.rfgeneration.com/cgi-bin/search.pl

However, they don't have breakdowns of specific dates or a list of the launch titles.

They should've left it at Alex Kidd. Only with his JP style SonSon like cover pic. The only faults here are that naysayers could find SMB similarities where they wanted despite the actually vast separation betwixt the two, and the childishness which CoI would too have provided; either would have been very sensible.

You want a really good all around game as a pack-in though, a killer app if possible, and Alex Kidd in Enchanted Castle is really not a very good game at all (at least by most people's oppinions) . . . we had a discussion on how Sega screwed up most of the later Alex Kidd games. (Miracle World was good, and one or 2 of the later games were good/OK, but many/most were poor/mediocre)

Golden Axe was way too strong a seller to waste on packing in.

Again, that's what you DO want. A very strong seller (preferably a broadly appealing killer app). That was the idea behind Mario pack-ins by Nintendo (and Donkey Kong with the Colecovision -iirc, at one point, Sears packed in Space Invaders with their version of the 2600 too).
That's the main criticism behind the altered beast pack-in too. (there were better system sellers they could have chosen -at least a few months later)

By that logic, Sega would have been really stupid to pack-in a game like Sonic. (and Nintendo for Mario, etc, etc)

Now, there's the other issue of what titles were available initially at launch, and how later releases progressed (for potential replacements), and that's what I've been discussing . . .

[kool kitty89]

Despite the fact that release dates weren't necessarily as solid/publicized in 1989, the Genesis did have a definitive launch lineup. I actually have an old article from USA Today that I'll try to scan and upload soon that takes a look at the full initial lineup. In addition to Altered Beast, the games available alongside the system initially were Space Harrier II, Last Battle, Super Thunder Blade, Tommy Lasorda Baseball, and Thunder Force II. Second controllers were NOT available on Day 1 (at least in my area), which led to about a month of playing 2-player AB with Player 2 burdened with an Atari 2600 joystick. They were out around October, when Ghouls 'n Ghosts was released.

After that, my memory gets a little bit hazy, but here's a rough rundown of when those other earlier titles were released:

Alex Kidd: Feb/Mar 90
Arnold Palmer: No recollection
Forgotten Worlds: Dec 89
Golden Axe: Jan/Feb 90
Herzog Zwei: Mar/Apr 90
Mystic Defender: Dec 89
Phantasy Star II: Mar 90
Rambo III: Dec 89
Revenge of Shinobi: Jan 90
Super Hang On: Nov/Dec 89
Truxton: Feb/Mar 90
World Championship Soccer: Dec 89 (priced at $39.99. BOMBA!)
Zoom!: 1st Q 90

I either purchased or was given a lot of these early releases right around the time of their release, so I have a pretty vivid memory of roughly when they came out. (for example, SHO and Rambo III were both presents from Christmas 89, so they definitely made it out that year) I think Golden Axe may have been my second Internet (well, okay, CompuServe) purchase ever.

As for why AB became the pack-in, I think the general consensus of it being a flashy arcade port with huge sprites is accurate, though I'd also put forward that it was the most appealing/accessible of the launch titles. Platform-style action games tend to have a broader appeal over shooters, so that rules out TFII, Thunder Blade and Space Harrier. Lasorda was obviously out, due to the double-whammy of being a sports title (not a big deal at all at the time) and the likelihood that they would have had to pay the man himself additional royalties. Last Battle would not have necessarily been a bad choice, but it definitely wasn't as flashy as AB and lacked any name recognition.

RF Generation lists a lot more releases for 1989, and slightly more than Sheath's list too.

http://www.rfgeneration.com/cgi-bin/search.pl

However, they don't have breakdowns of specific dates or a list of the launch titles.

They should've left it at Alex Kidd. Only with his JP style SonSon like cover pic. The only faults here are that naysayers could find SMB similarities where they wanted despite the actually vast separation betwixt the two, and the childishness which CoI would too have provided; either would have been very sensible.

You want a really good all around game as a pack-in though, a killer app if possible, and Alex Kidd in Enchanted Castle is really not a very good game at all (at least by most people's oppinions) . . . we had a discussion on how Sega screwed up most of the later Alex Kidd games. (Miracle World was good, and one or 2 of the later games were good/OK, but many/most were poor/mediocre)

Golden Axe was way too strong a seller to waste on packing in.

Again, that's what you DO want. A very strong seller (preferably a broadly appealing killer app). That was the idea behind Mario pack-ins by Nintendo (and Donkey Kong with the Colecovision -iirc, at one point, Sears packed in Space Invaders with their version of the 2600 too).
That's the main criticism behind the altered beast pack-in too. (there were better system sellers they could have chosen -at least a few months later)

By that logic, Sega would have been really stupid to pack-in a game like Sonic. (and Nintendo for Mario, etc, etc)

Now, there's the other issue of what titles were available initially at launch, and how later releases progressed (for potential replacements), and that's what I've been discussing . . .

[Bastardcat]

Is it just me or was Altered Beast a way cooler pack-in than Sonic?

[Gunstar Zero]

No. Altered Beast is not cooler than sonic. lol. But that said...I really love Altered Beast. I may be a minority along with Bastardcat. But tonight espicially I reached Genesis nirvana as I beat my best score and made it to the werebear in the second rounds. I really like the game, but it deffinitely appeals more to the arcade gamer and the points hound. Which I'm sure there were more of in 1989 than there are now.

I also agree you want a killer app, a high seller, as a pack in. Golden Axe is my vote from the wikipedia launch line up. Nintendo was a great example as stated above, everyone would have paid for Mario. But they sold it anyway with the NES. And it worked. Why? Even though a lot of the time consoles are sold at a loss?

It works because once you have the system, your going to go buy more games for it. Even if they are shitty. Remember too, there wasn't really a lot of places then for selling consoles and systems back to the store for credit, so once you had your system, and most people could only have one, thats what you played. If you bought the system because it came with Golden Axe it didn't matter that you would have paid for Golden Axe separately. Once the Sega Genesis was in your home you were hooked and you were going to buy more games to feed it. All that matters when it comes to what you put in a console box is getting that box from the store shelf to the consumers house. You do this by any means necessary. If that means packing in your best game (and it does) than that is what you do.

[Ecco]

For those talking about the merits of Altered Beast:

As a small kid, I was blown away by it in the arcade (actually the machine was at a restaurant/party house).

I looked forward to AB on Genesis and then my friend got it and I was disappointed in the graphics! Mainly I had loved the graphics in the arcade, and the Genesis game didn't do it for me. I regretted hyping the game up so much, to my friend, before he got it. He liked it, but he also never played the arcade game.

I remember especially that on Genesis, the first POWER-UP change looked very lame in comparison; It almost looks like he just takes off his shirt! In the arcade, it looked like the guys got bigger and so bust out of their shirts, and the difference really bothered me at the time. lol Maybe playing the arcade game 1st ruins it, but for me at least AB was mainly a disappointment back then, and I'm really glad it was not my pack-in! (I got both Sonic 1&2, the best pack-in!)

Also I wonder what system bundles the Genesis was competing with at launch! In the US it was mainly the NES, which must have come with Mario 1 or maybe Mario 3, so AB seems good as a drastically different kind of platformer: It's from the arcade, with flashy graphics, voices, etc.

AB also probably seemed to make more sense as a pack-in, in those early days before the existence of either Sonic or the SNES, of course...

[Gunstar Zero]

In 1989, you already had...what? 4 years to buy an NES? I think I got mine a year or two prior to that (from my parents...man they started me early...I was like 3-4 and only ever had like 5 games for the thing which is why Genesis is where most of my memories are). So really, most people who wanted an NES had one. I don't think Sega was really competing with another console in terms of "buy a Genesis not an NES!" I think it was more a mater of "Your NES is old now. Let it go. This is the new thing. Upgrade!" as most of their customers in the US would have been NES owners, or those new to gaming entirely. The Master System really didn't do well enough here (or even close to well enough) for the primary market in NA to have been upgrade your master system. They wanted those NES owners, which is why the Genesis Does what Nintendon't campaign started.

Ecco, I can see the graphical changes from video but never played an AB arcade cabinet. How did the genesis version compare in terms of just gameplay?

[DaddyMulk]

RF Generation lists a lot more releases for 1989, and slightly more than Sheath's list too.

http://www.rfgeneration.com/cgi-bin/search.pl

I have 12 1989 games listed in my post (plus one undetermined), and they have 13 on their list. Not exactly an ocean of difference there. (I'll concede that they're correct on Arnold Palmer, and possibly Alex Kidd. I'd still swear that Mystic Defender was in my mitts in 1989 though)

[tisurame]

I owned and played a lot of Altered Beast during all my childhood but I never noticed this nice cutscene (using the arcade version as an example, because I couldn't find a video of the Genesis version).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x8-jI4DcBZw&t=4m15s

And that's because you need to keep the demo playing for a long time before it appears. What a waste... This animation is impressive and should had appear right after you start the game, maybe as the title screen or even during the game.

Also, the Genesis version could easily been modified to fell longer. The stages are too short. In the first stage you can barely play as the wolf after you get the first three energy balls and it's really fun to use the wolf to breeze through the stage, destroying the normal enemies, and not just the boss.

[Sik]

Also, the Genesis version could easily been modified to fell longer. The stages are too short. In the first stage you can barely play as the wolf after you get the first three energy balls and it's really fun to use the wolf to breeze through the stage, destroying the normal enemies, and not just the boss.

This is true for all the levels, you get the boss right after the last power-up if you didn't miss any. If you miss any then you're forced to play for longer.