1993 interview with Treasure

[Kamahl]

Um, how so? The video bandwidth for the SNES is just a bit less than that of the Mega Drive (and you can cut some display time to make up for that), and it uses DMA to transfer the data so it isn't hampered by the CPU. Updating the object behaviour has nothing to do with animating them.

Not just a bit less, quite a bit less, it's noticeable, lot's of games seems to be lacking frames of animation compared to their genesis counterparts. I'm mixing definitions of slowdown though. I mean the mix of objects animating slower with objects moving slower.

Eh, that was mainly towards the end of its lifetime where all other genres had already moved on the next generation.

How does that change what I've said? Just means most of the best games came out late in it's lifecycle.

The SNES can do parallax too (and in fact, it can do more layers than the Mega Drive). Doing linescrolling isn't much of an issue since you can just do a HDMA table... though to be fair, it does eat up hblank time that could have been used for something else, and it forces you to use raster effects to do linescrolling.

Forgot to mention it can do 3 layers in the post, I just meant that doing parallax scrolling on the genesis is retardedly easy. Doesn't mean it's "tough" to do on the SNES, just that it's dead simple on the mega drive.

Though this was also true of the PC Engine. Let's not leave it out of the discussion =P

Fast processor, weak master palette , although I wouldn't say it had pumping soundtracks, the soundchip was gravely underused.

And what happened to kool kitty, he didn't reply yet o_O

He's still writing his post.

[Thenewguy]

The SNES can do parallax too (and in fact, it can do more layers than the Mega Drive).

Doesn't the SNES look like ass if you use its extra layers though? kinda' defeats the point of using them in most cases if thats true.

[Kamahl]

Doesn't the SNES look like ass if you use its extra layers though? kinda' defeats the point of using them in most cases if thats true.

Nope, just the last layer is low in color.

[Thenewguy]

Nope, just the last layer is low in color.

Just the one furthest away? thats odd, why do Mega Drive games usually have more parallax than SNES games if SNES already has a head start with few compromises and doing linescrolling is only slightly harder?

[Team Andromeda]

I think I can agree with the essence of MSS's impression really. I disagree that the SNES did better Arcade adaptations than the Genesis in any general sense. But I agree that Genesis games have a gameplay style all their own, and it is usually based on speed while tossing around a lot of (fake) background layers and tons of sprite objects. In fact, it was the lack of numerous enemies on screen and action that made 32-bit gaming less interesting to me. Running around in 3D environments, fighting one enemy at a time just never really impressed me.

Again seath is depends on the game you are into to and the system . There were quite a few SNES games that threw lots of sprites around and sometimes better than the MD - The SNES version of Smash TV is so much better its untrue and there were quite a few 32 bit games that threw around a ridiculous number of sprites around the screen more so if you were a Saturn users : I mean it was hard to keep up with the sheer number of sprites being thrown around in Guardian Heroes , RSG, Dragon Force, Batsugun, Keio II, Shinrei Taroumaru, Silhouette Mirage, Assault Suit Leynos 2, Megaman X4, Souky, Battle Garegga, Three Dirty Dwarves ,Princess Crown, Dungeons and Dragons Collection, Astal ect - That is why I love the Saturn so much it had a great blend of 2D and 3D games and even in some games combined to the two for some stunning gameplay experiences

Its just a shame so many of the classic 2D Saturn stuff never made it over thanks to baboons like Bernie being in charge .

[Kamahl]

Just the one furthest away? thats odd, why do Mega Drive games usually have more parallax than SNES games if SNES already has a head start with few compromises and doing linescrolling is only slightly harder?

No idea, but yes, it's just 1 layer that's low color.
Check out Castlevania Dracula X, right on the first stage there's 3.
Or Act Raiser 2, the fog is another layer.
Rendering Ranger - The game is low color due to a stylistic preference (of the publisher -_-)

[Thenewguy]

No idea, but yes, it's just 1 layer that's low color.
Check out Castlevania Dracula X, right on the first stage there's 3.

Ah ok, I think I was mixing up what i'd read about Mode 0, which is 4 layers. So the SNES has 1 extra layer over Mega Drive, without compromises, or two extra layers over Mega Drive, with nasty compromises?

I think I'm still pretty far from fully comprehending this stuff LOL

[Kamahl]

Ah ok, I think I was mixing up what i'd read about Mode 0, which is 4 layers. So the SNES has 1 extra layer over Mega Drive, without compromises, or two extra layers over Mega Drive, with nasty compromises?

I think I'm still pretty far from fully comprehending this stuff LOL

I'm not familiar enough with the SNES hardware to go into details either. Amiga/PCE/MD I understand .
From what I gather there is some kind of scrolling sacrificed in order to use 3 layers, all wikipedia says is that in the normal mode "Each tile can be independently scrolled".
I just read some SNES docs, yup there's something going on in Mode 2 alright. It's complicated as hell. More reason to use Mode 1 (3 layers) lol...

[magicalsoundshower]

Rendering Ranger

OK, RR is pretty impressive, I'll give you that. Too bad about the infamous "Where did my parallax and transparent HUD go? Oh, time to watch a bitmap spin around the screen" moment. OK, I'll stop now, no clue why I'm being so anti-SNES at the moment. I love how level 2 of Space Megaforce/Super Aleste implemented Mode 7, though.

[Sik]

The SNES can do four layers all at 2bpp (Yoshi's Island uses this to great effect). It can also do three layers, with two of them being 4bpp and one being 2bpp (this is what most SNES games use, leaving the 2bpp layer for the HUD).

[Kamahl]

(this is what most SNES games use, leaving the 2bpp layer for the HUD).

Ah so that's where the layer went. Makes sense.

[Sik]

Ah so that's where the layer went. Makes sense.

It's also why the graphics of HUDs look like crap most of the time =P

Also just watched that Rendering Ranger video... Say whatever you want about losing parallax in that mode-7 section, it was damn seamless, had to actually go back to find out when did the switch happen. If I didn't know about the hardware specs I wouldn't have noticed at all.

EDIT: also if you want a huge blunder in terms of SNES hardware use, look at the Dark Room level in Jelly Boy. The parallax is completely gone, all because they wanted to do a stupid spotlight effect for the light bulb. The Mega Drive version doesn't attempt anything like that (it just lits the entire level), and it retains the parallax.

[magicalsoundshower]

How did level 2 of Space Megaforce do it, though? The spinning space station is clearly Mode 7, but yet, there's multiscrolling stars in the background. Those can't possibly be sprites, can they? The HUD clearly consists of sprites, that's why it's still transparent. Needless to say, the game pretty much blows my mind every time I play it, the waving transparent clouds it likes to use are quite something, too. It's a shame the game doesn't seem very popular.

Iterestingly enough, the Cameltry port for SNES also somehow manages to display a background below the Mode 7 tiles, too bad about the ugly HUD.

[Kamahl]

They're sprites. It's the same as the star fields in PCE shooters.

[Sik]

How did level 2 of Space Megaforce do it, though?

Sprites, that background isn't even remotely complex.

Iterestingly enough, the Cameltry port for SNES also somehow manages to display a background below the Mode 7 tiles, too bad about the ugly HUD.

Again, sprites. The only object in the map that seems to be a sprite is the ball, so they could afford to waste lots of sprites for the background.