Anyone here who doesnt like the Saturn ?

[TrekkiesUnite118]

I don't count Spinball, Eraser, or mean bean machine as Sonic games. The first Sonic just goes severely downhill after the first level. The only decent levels after it are Spring Yard Zone and Starlight Zone. The rest are all bland and boring. Even those two zones I mentioned have a generic feel to them. I'd rather play 3D Blast or even Sonic 2006 before I'd play the First Sonic again.

[StarMist]

If by keeping Sonic pure you mean keeping it like the first one

>>>

I don't count Spinball, Eraser, or mean bean machine as Sonic games.

This is what I mean. Even Flickies' Island could've worked with an isometric view in longer draw so more screen would be visible and thus more speed possible. I think Knuckles's mechanics hurt the later games but Sonic's new shields' mechanics counterbalance them so by and large all the new things that would be approximated in other theoretical new games are fine, only Sonic 3's levels are boring (I feel towards them as you do Sonic 1's). Pure just means no Sonic Spinball, Eraser, Puyo Puyo, Flickies' Island, or online text adventures.

I'm not going to bend on this, milking is what kills creativity and innovation. If these companies took responsibility for the power they have they would release four new games for every franchise sequel and thus train the next generation of gamers to expect innovation. Without "new games" programmers burn out, game developers get bored, and creativity dies. Without creativity there is no wonder to draw people into games, they can only focus on graphics for so long before people will realize that the games stink. Without any hint of profundity in the gameplay gaming will turn into little more than puzzles and cards.

That's a wholly impossible ratio. All I want is that when Sega creates a successful new game they make another of it with refinements, alterations, any reasonable measure of fresh air, rather than torturing it into something unrecognisable and unplayable. Good examples are the Ecco games, the Shinobis, Sonic 2 from Sonic 1, Sonic 3/&K from Sonic 2, PD Zwei from Panzer Dragoon, SoR2 from Sor1.

[oldskool]

Not a big fan of it, honestly. I prefer my PS1 - it pretty much has the same games in better quality anyways. The few exclusives that the Saturn has is not worth the mega bucks that they cost.

Not a big fan of the 32X either.

For me I jump from the Genesis/CD straight up to the Dreamcast - which is what Sega should have done as well.

I do own a Saturn, and honestly it just sits in it's Blockbuster carrying case in the closet.

[Da_Shocker]

I'm not going to bend on this, milking is what kills creativity and innovation. If these companies took responsibility for the power they have they would release four new games for every franchise sequel and thus train the next generation of gamers to expect innovation. Without "new games" programmers burn out, game developers get bored, and creativity dies. Without creativity there is no wonder to draw people into games, they can only focus on graphics for so long before people will realize that the games stink. Without any hint of profundity in the gameplay gaming will turn into little more than puzzles and cards.

I'm pretty sure these companies are business's and want to make a profit first and foremost. Sega was very creative and innovative with the DC and look were that got them. You know that the market is mainly dictated by what sales. Videogaming is no longer a niche anymore it's bigger than Hollywood. The days of garage gamers is forever gone.

[sheath]

I am not just lamenting the origins of gaming dieing. I am predicting its next downfall. People think Atari caused the first market fluctuation "crash", this will be worse. Focusing on profitability is one thing, these companies are desperately trying to stay afloat with "safe" efforts that marketing departments approve of.

[TrekkiesUnite118]

Not a big fan of it, honestly. I prefer my PS1 - it pretty much has the same games in better quality anyways. The few exclusives that the Saturn has is not worth the mega bucks that they cost.

Not a big fan of the 32X either.

For me I jump from the Genesis/CD straight up to the Dreamcast - which is what Sega should have done as well.

I do own a Saturn, and honestly it just sits in it's Blockbuster carrying case in the closet.

There's plenty of games on the Saturn that are better than their PS1 versions that don't cost an arm and a leg to get. Theres also a great amount of exclusives that don't cost an arm and a leg to get.

Cheap multiplatform games that are superior on the Saturn you could get are:
Street Fighter Collection
Street Fighter Alpha
Street Fighter Alpha 2
Night Warriors: Darkstalkers Revenge
X-men vs Street Fighter
Vampire Savior
Sonic 3D Blast
Dead or Alive
Grandia
Lunar Silver Star Story Complete
Lunar 2 Eternal Blue

Good cheap exclusives you could get are:
Virtua Fighter 2
Sega Rally Championship
Galactic Attack
Panzer Dragoon
Panzer Dragoon 2
NiGHTS
Astal
Virtua Cop
Virtua Cop 2
Fighting Vipers
Fighters Megamix

There's a ton more than that too. None of those require mega bucks to get and are great games.

[Barone]

@StarMist
You just forgot to mention that Saturn had almost no support in Europe while the Mega Drive was big there with lots of Amiga ports.
Capcom supported the Saturn very well, unlike the Mega Drive. Namco gave a damn about the Saturn, just like about the SNES.
PS1 got a huge support by EA, just like Mega Drive, while the Saturn didn't.
...

There's a ton more than that too. None of those require mega bucks to get and are great games.

oldskool is the type of guy who has a FM Towns Marty, maybe you should not underestimate his knowledge about the Saturn's library or Japanese games in general.

Also, you're always exaggerating when you talk about the number of Saturn games, in any aspect and without naming more than a dozen of games.
Looks like that, in your opinion, nobody has good reasons to prefer a PS1 but you keep ignoring the previous discussions in this very same thread showing several reasons to do so...
If Saturn has a ton of good cheap exclusives, the PS1 has, at least, two tons.

[StarMist]

@StarMist
You just forgot to mention that Saturn had almost no support in Europe while the Mega Drive was big there with lots of Amiga ports.

You mean exclusives? I don't see much worthwhile on MD that's Euro exclusive. Amiga games like Mega SWIV? No thanks. If you're inclined to count the 32X and CD games spare yourself the effort, you know I don't deem those part of the MD library.

PS1 got a huge support by EA, just like Mega Drive, while the Saturn didn't.

We're pretty close to agreement here, let's not explode over little things like EA. Namco wasn't that big a loss or gain to anybody in the 16 bit days and as everybody knows was essentially Sony's 2nd party for the PS--maybe even officially.

...

!!!

[TrekkiesUnite118]

@StarMist
You just forgot to mention that Saturn had almost no support in Europe while the Mega Drive was big there with lots of Amiga ports.
Capcom supported the Saturn very well, unlike the Mega Drive. Namco gave a damn about the Saturn, just like about the SNES.
PS1 got a huge support by EA, just like Mega Drive, while the Saturn didn't.
...


oldskool is the type of guy who has a FM Towns Marty, maybe you should not underestimate his knowledge about the Saturn's library or Japanese games in general.

Also, you're always exaggerating when you talk about the number of Saturn games, in any aspect and without naming more than a dozen of games.
Looks like that, in your opinion, nobody has good reasons to prefer a PS1 but you keep ignoring the previous discussions in this very same thread showing several reasons to do so...
If Saturn has a ton of good cheap exclusives, the PS1 has, at least, two tons.

There are more good cheap exclusives, it depends greatly on taste however. But if you really want a list of good Saturn exclusives I can post one. We'll put the limit on price at around $75 anything beyond that I would consider big bucks. Considering some PS1 must haves like FF7 go for over that much at times due to fanboy stupidity I think this seems fair.

Virtua Fighter Remix
Virtua Fighter 2
Fighting Vipers
Fighters Megamix
Virtual On
Daytona USA CCE
Sega Rally Championship
Sega Touring Car Championship
NiGHTS into Dreams
Burning Rangers
Sonic Jam
Sonic R
Panzer Dragoon
Panzer Dragoon 2 Zwei
Galactic Attack
Die Hard Arcade
Astal
Clockwork Knight
Clockwork Knight 2
Decathalete
Winter Heat
Virtua Cop
Virtua Cop 2
Sega Ages Volume 1
Gungriffon

There are still a few more past this that others could probably mention that I've forgotten. Also note that those exclusives were all released in the US. If we include imports we can add these to the list:
Sakura Wars
Sakura Wars 2
Saturn Bomberman Fight!
Thunder Force Gold Pack 1 and 2
Dragon Force 2
Power Drift
Deep Fear
Galaxy Force II (Was the best version until the PS2 port)
Phantasy Star Collection
Shining Force 3 Scenario 2
Shining Force 3 Scenario 3
Zero Divide Final Conflict
Cotton 2
Cotton Boomerang
Batsugun
Gungriffon 2

And again probably more than I can think off at the moment. Now if we throw in some exclusives that might cost a bit more but are worth it we can add these to the list:
Dragon Force
Alberty Odyssey
Magic Knight Rayearth
Saturn Bomberman
Shining Force III
Panzer Dragoon Saga
Radiant Silvergun
Battle Garegga
Hyper Duel

Now if we want to include games that are better on Saturn, we can add these to the list:
Earthworm Jim 2 (Debatable)
Sonic 3D Blast
Dead or Alive
Street Fighter Alpha
Street Fighter Alpha 2
Street Fighter Alpha 3
Street Fighter Collection
Megaman 8 (Import will be cheaper)
Megaman X4
X-men vs Street Fighter
Vampire Savior
Marvel Super Heroes
Marvel Super Heroes vs Street Fighter
Metal Slug (Better than PS1 version at least)
King of Fighters 95 (Better than PS1 version at least)
Grandia
Lunar Silver Star Story Complete
Lunar 2 Eternal Blue
Suikoden (Debatable)
Pretty much every Parodius game
Strikers 1945
Thunder Force V
DoDonPachi (Debatable, in TATE mode it looks Arcade perfect, but still slowsdown more than the PS1 version, but has proper 2 player mode)
Street Racer
Soukyugurentai
Darius Gaiden
Symphony of the Night (highly debatable, I'd personally give the PS1 this one but some fans feel the bonus material makes up for the technical shortcomings of the port)

That's quite a hefty list of games that make owning the Saturn worthwhile. And there are still probably more that others might put in the list that I have forgotten.

[TheSonicRetard]

Now if we want to include games that are better on Saturn, we can add these to the list:
Earthworm Jim 2

NOPE. The Saturn EWJ2 port is awful.

[TrekkiesUnite118]

NOPE. The Saturn EWJ2 port is awful.

Everyone I've spoken to says it's the best version. Care to explain why?

[StarMist]

{{ List }}

Batsugun can probably go down one class, it can be had for $75.

add Exclusives:

Dezaemon 2.
Mr Bones (very eccentric potpourri game)
Bug and Bug Too (according to taste, ie not mine)
Princess Crown (ditto)
Christmas Nights
Steep Slope Sliders
Vatlva
Scorcher
GunBlaze S
Dragonheart
Chaos Seed (SFam upgrade/completion)
Guardian Force >$100
Groove On Fight
Shippu Mahou Daisakusen


--also: if you're going to play DF2 and Grandia in Japanese you might as well get Magic Knight in JP rather than US, it's $10. Not excl though, from SFam.

> PS:

Silhouette Mirage
Gunbird 1 and 2
Sol Divide (...if you like it)
Game Tengoku

[TrekkiesUnite118]

The Saturn version of MKR is exclusive to the Saturn if I remember correctly. They are entirely different games aren't they?

[TheSonicRetard]

Everyone I've spoken to says it's the best version. Care to explain why?

Try playing it? They changed all the backgrounds to flat, generic renders. Beyond that, it's identical to the Genesis and SNES versions. It's simply an uglier version of a game available everywhere else.

this:



became this:



And lost a ton of parallax in the process.

EDIT: I should also mention that the transparency effect in Lorenzo's Soil in the saturn version is the laziest method of doing so imaginable - it's just a full screen dither, while even the SNES version has true transparency:


SNES


Saturn

the best version of EWJ to get is probably the Can-o-worms edition for the PC. Except even that is lacking the Lorenzo's soil level... which could be considered a positive if you hated the level (like I did). Overall, the best version of EWJ2 is the SNES version.

[Barone]

You mean exclusives? I don't see much worthwhile on MD that's Euro exclusive. Amiga games like Mega SWIV? No thanks. If you're inclined to count the 32X and CD games spare yourself the effort, you know I don't deem those part of the MD library.

No, not exclusives but developed by European companies or ports of games that were originally developed for the Amiga/PC by European companies.
I pass the Mega SWIV offer too..

I'm talking about games like:
Lotus II RECS
Flink
Another World
Flashback
Mr. Nutz
Bubba 'n' Stix
Skeleton Krew
Galahad/Leander
Wiz 'n' Liz: The Frantic Wabbit Wescue
Mega Turrican

We're pretty close to agreement here, let's not explode over little things like EA. Namco wasn't that big a loss or gain to anybody in the 16 bit days and as everybody knows was essentially Sony's 2nd party for the PS--maybe even officially.

I don't like EA but they are important in order to flood the stores with games (mostly very bad though).
Namco was not that big in the 16-bit era, yes. But I would miss Splatterhouse and Rolling Thunder series, as much as Burning Force, Marvel Land and now, thanks to the fan translation, Nadia: The Secret Of Blue Water. Solid games...
The first time I played Splatterhouse 3 it blew my mind.

@TrekkiesUnite118
Thanks for the list, I'll rep you for the work done ("You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to TrekkiesUnite118 again.").
EWJ2 is shit both in PS1 or Saturn... The 16-bit versions are better.

Let ask about some games:
"Now if we want to include games that are better on Saturn, we can add these to the list:
Earthworm Jim 2 (Debatable)
Sonic 3D Blast
Dead or Alive
Street Fighter Alpha
Street Fighter Alpha 2
Street Fighter Alpha 3
Street Fighter Collection
Megaman 8 (Import will be cheaper)
Megaman X4
X-men vs Street Fighter
Vampire Savior
Marvel Super Heroes
Marvel Super Heroes vs Street Fighter
Metal Slug (Better than PS1 version at least)
King of Fighters 95 (Better than PS1 version at least)
Grandia
Lunar Silver Star Story Complete
Lunar 2 Eternal Blue
Suikoden (Debatable)
Pretty much every Parodius game
Strikers 1945
Thunder Force V
DoDonPachi (Debatable, in TATE mode it looks Arcade perfect, but still slowsdown more than the PS1 version, but has proper 2 player mode)
Street Racer
Soukyugurentai
Darius Gaiden
Symphony of the Night (highly debatable, I'd personally give the PS1 this one but some fans feel the bonus material makes up for the technical shortcomings of the port)"
Why do you say that those games (in bold) are better on Saturn (I'm questioning about a PS1 comparison)?

Policenauts should be in that list, right?