Anyone here who doesnt like the Saturn ?

[Zoltor]

If Nintendo is there first, it doesn't matter, they are gonna get all the games anyway, on top of that the Famicom was the only decent system out there anyway(so this made it so game developers had to choose between making a ton of crap for the systems that ruined the industry or make a few quality title a years for a system that is well supported, and capeable of more then 70s arcade games), you act like it changed the industry for the worse. Also by the time Super Famicom came out, Nintendo didn't do that as far as I know, except for possibly Rare, which was basically subsidized by Nintendo anyway(which made it make sense, they would mostly make games for Nintendo, which if you look at Rare's history, wasn't that strict, because they did make a few Genesis games).

"Nintendo demanded that they manufacture all the cartridges themselves, they charged 3rd parties double the amount it cost to manufacture them, and then they charged them a hefty licensing fee on top of that. 3rd parties had two choices, either they could cave in to every demand Nintendo made, or they could support another system, which had >10% marketshare, which meant their company went out of business."

This is a good thing(lol It's still a hell of a lot cheaper then what Sony charges by the way), it forces companies to put effort into making games. There's a reason why alot of the "early" 3rd party games sucked on the NES, because Nintendo basically paid the bill for the publication of games(thinking it would bring more quality developers in, but it did the opposite, so they put a end to that tactic, and gave developers a reason to put effort into their games)

Again, this really only existed in the NES days, and you are kidding yourself if such games could even be put on other systems at the time. Most of the games that exist on the NES either wouldn't exist at all(if X company didn't choose to go with the system) or would be a empty shell of a game, that is very different(placed on the SMS).

Also you seem to imply companies would want to release games on the other systems, Sega was still hung up on Arcade gaming, why the hell would a company want to put a console style game, on a arcade centric system, and the other systems out there sucked in general(little more then updated 2600 clones).

However don't take that as Nintendo dropping support for developers, they still supported the games(Nintendo Power, tools/developer kits, and such), they just stopped footing the bill for the most expensive aspect of making a game, the publication)

[Thenewguy]

Also by the time Super Famicom came out, Nintendo didn't do that as far as I know

Yep, Nintendo were at their most damaging (and inspired) with the NES, Nintendo were taken to court at around the time of the SNES and these methods were ruled as illegal monopolistic practices so they had to abandon them.

This is a good thing(lol It's still a hell of a lot cheaper then what Sony charges by the way)

Er, no, it was significantly more expensive than what Sony charged, from what I can recall Sony charged 3rd parties lower license fees than Sega, and Sega were already cheaper than Nintendo, and Nintendo had already dropped fees from their earlier state in the 80s when competition was increased as well.

There's a reason why alot of the "early" 3rd party games sucked on the NES

A metric ton of late 3rd party games sucked on the NES too.

Most of the games that exist on the NES either wouldn't exist at all (if X company didn't choose to go with the system) or would be a empty shell of a game, that is very different(placed on the SMS).

Most games would've still existed, they would've had superior graphics, but worse sound if moved to SMS, or superior everything if put on PC-Engine. You could give a fair argument that without Nintendo's practices all the business wouldn't have been in one place, and there would've been less profit, meaning less software, but then you've got to take into account the huge amount of profits Nintendo syphoned away from 3rd parties, and the fact that their license agreement was so expensive that smaller companies couldn't actually afford the investment to put software of NES in the 1st place, so it may well have balanced out.

There's also a whole load of arguments as to whether Nintendo created this market in Japan in the 1st place, maybe if the NES hadn't existed machines like the SG1000 would've done well and the market wouldn't have taken off in the way that it did, maybe Sega wouldn't have bothered designing the Master System, maybe Atari would've recovered in the US and done a terrible job of subsequent machines etc.

Nintendo probably did do a helluva lot of good for the industry, but they did a lot of bad too, I tend to think that in their case the good does a lot to balance out the bad, moreso than with Sony.

Sega was still hung up on Arcade gaming, why the hell would a company want to put a console style game, on a arcade centric system

To corner the market in unrepresented genres? to retain more profits? because it took less investment? because they wanted to make more impressive stuff?

[sheath]

Yep, Nintendo were at their most damaging (and inspired) with the NES, Nintendo were taken to court at around the time of the SNES and these methods were ruled as illegal monopolistic practices so they had to abandon them.

They were also required to refund money to every NES owner from ~1988 on for price fixing the $10 cost system at $80-100. Nintendo agreed with the contingent that the original receipt and box UPC code was mailed in. Guess how that turned out for all of those NES owners, not that I think for a second they ever learned about the ruling.

[Zoltor]

"A metric ton of late 3rd party games sucked on the NES too."

Not noticeably so, many games were only comparibly bad(when there's already a ton of awesome sports, RPGs, Tactics, puzzle, platformers exc out there, it just makes many games look bad(because of how hard it is to compete with greatness).

Really, the PC-Engine, someone slap him. The PC engine is good for "two" things, and two things only, Shooters, and Fighters(believe it or not, there are actually other genres on the system as well, and omg are they bad).

SG1000(never heard of it)? Sounds like a computer, if so that doesn't really count. On the otherhand, lets go with your premise shall we, if that were the case, Japan would not have become the industry leader that they became, they would've bocome a joke of the gaming industry, much like EU was in the 80-90s.

Sega would've probally died off well before it did, and we would probally be playing on a Atari system now(shivers), which is a scary thought. I highly doubt the gaming industry would be anything big, most serious gaming would still be done in the arcades most likely(gaming at home would be uncommon at best).

Generally It's not a good move to put a console style game on a system that has mainly a arcade game fanbase, why? because such games wont sell.

[Kamahl]

Really, the PC-Engine, someone slap him. The PC engine is good for "two" things, and two things only, Shooters, and Fighters(believe it or not, there are actually other genres on the system as well, and omg are they bad).

And Point&Click Adventure (Beyond Shadowgate, Snatcher, etc...)
And RPGs (Ys 1-4, Legend of Xanadu 1-2, Tengai Makyo 2 & Kabuki Den, Anearth Fantasy Stories, Cosmic Fantasy 4, Burai 2, etc...)
And Action Adventure/RPG (Cadash, Dragon's Curse, Neotopia 1-2, Dungeon Explorer 1-2, Exile, Dynastic Hero, Legend of Valkyrie, Magicoal, Blood Gear, Shapeshifter, Popful Mail, Fiend Hunter, etc...)
And Action Sidescrollers (Ninja Spirit, Splaterhouse, Son Son 2, Jackie Chan, Castlevania Rondo of Blood, Faussete Amour, Legendary Axe 1 and 2, Shockman, Shubibinman 3, Valis IV, etc...)
And Strategy RPGs / Tactical Games (Langrisser, Kisou Louga 1-2, Sword Master, Nectaris 1-2, Solid Force, etc...)
And Pinball (Devil Crush, Alien Crush)
And stupid puzzles games (Plenty but I don't care about them)
And it has the best Bomberman of all time (Bomberman 94).
And it has a better than puzzle bobble, puzzle boble clones (Pop&Magic, Don Doko Don)
And it has a few cool platformers (Bonk 1-3, Makai Prince Dorabocchan, Mizubaku Daibouken)

It's a bitweak in pure platformers, and sucks at beat'em ups and sports games, that's pretty much it. (And there might be some good sports games I've not played, dunno if Cyber Dodgeball is good for example)

You're the one that needs some good slappin'

[TheSonicRetard]

Really, the PC-Engine, someone slap him. The PC engine is good for "two" things, and two things only, Shooters, and Fighters(believe it or not, there are actually other genres on the system as well, and omg are they bad).

Shut the fuck up.

[Zoltor]

Shut the fuck up.

The non Fighters/shooters on the system are bad, really really bad, so bad I stopped trying to look for the one gem that may or may not exist for the system.

The AVGN so needs to do a video on non fighter/shooter PC-Engine games.

[NeoZeedeater]

I can only assume Zoltor is just trying to troll the board for fun. There's no way someone can be so wrong so many times in one thread.

[TheSonicRetard]

The non Fighters/shooters on the system are bad, really really bad, so bad I stopped trying to look for the one gem that may or may not exist for the system.

The AVGN so needs to do a video on non fighter/shooter PC-Engine games.

You're trying to convince a guy with 141 PC Engine games that "the games are so bad, I don't even play them!" You're also touting one of the weakest genres on the system, fighting games, as a core strength.

I doubt you have even seen a PC Engine before in your life.

Shut up.

I can only assume Zoltor is just trying to troll the board for fun. There's no way someone can be so wrong so many times in one thread.

He's like that in every single thread. I get the assumption that he's either A) Really young and basing his opinions off of a few gamefaqs message board opinions/5 minutes in front of an emulator, or B) flat-out not a hardcore gamer.

All his opinions are broad and general. If there was a topic about, say, an obscure but universally hailed Jaguar game, like Protector SE or something, he would likely come into the topic and dismiss the game because the jaguar totally sucked, controller is big blah blah blah, and so forth. He forms opinions based off of broad (and in this case, very unshared) perceptions about sales popularity and what-not.

[Zoltor]

You're trying to convince a guy with 141 PC Engine games that "the games are so bad, I don't even play them!" You're also touting one of the weakest genres on the system, fighting games, as a core strength.

I doubt you have even seen a PC Engine before in your life.

Shut up.

I still have nightmares about the horendous Dungeon Explorer game, thank you very much, yet someone suggested that as a good game, but you guys expect me to take it seriously. Also I can't help but notice, alot of the ports of "decent" games were from the previous gen systems, and aren't even the higher quality games that gen had to offer.

[TheSonicRetard]

I still have nightmares about the horendous Dungeon Explorer game, thank you very much, yet someone suggested that as a good game, but you guys expect me to take it seriously.

I don't know how you expect anybody to respond to this. Good for you, you don't like good games? Congrats man.

[eddiespruce]

I still have nightmares about the horendous Dungeon Explorer game, thank you very much, yet someone suggested that as a good game, but you guys expect me to take it seriously.

But Dungeon Explorer isn't the only RPG on the PC Engine. Kamahl already mentioned some great RPG's for the PC Engine.

I own a Duo-R, and I can tell you, the PC Engine is awesome. It's a lot of fun, and there's a big library of games out there that you really have to experience. While there are some expensive rare games for it, there's lots of great ones that can be had for cheap as well, especially the Japanese library, which is usually cheaper than its US Turbografx-16 counterparts.

Please don't put down a console you know nothing about.

[Thenewguy]

Sorry, but I don't think it realistic to call fighters a PC-Engine weakness, the system has a very good port of Street Fighter II on it, and it has ports of Fatal Fury 2, Fatal Fury Special, and Art of Fighting which are all widely considered to be superior to the Genesis and SNES versions.

I'm not really experienced enough with fighters on the system, but I know there's quite a number of others which seem well liked Asuka 120%, Advanced VG, the Ranma game etc.

[Zoltor]

You're trying to convince a guy with 141 PC Engine games that "the games are so bad, I don't even play them!" You're also touting one of the weakest genres on the system, fighting games, as a core strength.

I doubt you have even seen a PC Engine before in your life.

Shut up.



He's like that in every single thread. I get the assumption that he's either A) Really young and basing his opinions off of a few gamefaqs message board opinions/5 minutes in front of an emulator, or B) flat-out not a hardcore gamer.

All his opinions are broad and general. If there was a topic about, say, an obscure but universally hailed Jaguar game, like Protector SE or something, he would likely come into the topic and dismiss the game because the jaguar totally sucked, controller is big blah blah blah, and so forth. He forms opinions based off of broad (and in this case, very unshared) perceptions about sales popularity and what-not.

What, lets see I had a 2600, 7800, C64, also I still have NES, NES 2, SNES, Gen, SCD, PS(had a N64 but was destroyed in a flood last year), PS 2, a gaming PC, DC, Wii, DS Lite, and GB(I'm planing to get a PSP, and a WiiU, but money is tight). None of the games I've played on the PC-Engine I liked, so you'll have to excuse me if I'm not inlove with the supposed awesome PC-Engine Library.

[TheSonicRetard]

Sorry, but I don't think it realistic to call fighters a PC-Engine weakness, the system has a very good port of Street Fighter II on it, and it has ports of Fatal Fury 2, Fatal Fury Special, and Art of Fighting which are all widely considered to be superior to the Genesis and SNES versions.

I'm not really experienced enough with fighters on the system, but I know there's quite a number of others which seem well liked Asuka 120%, Advanced VG, the Ranma game etc.

There are 4 good fighting games, and then a number of terrible fighting games on the system. You listed a bunch of games which are well received simply because they are there. None of those are really good fighting games, and while the oft-touted SFII' and SNK ports are indeed as-good or, in the case of the SNK ports, much better than the Genesis or SNES ports, those 4 games are not enough to hold up an entire genre of fighting games.

When you compare original efforts on the PC Engine, like Asuka Burning Fest, to stuff like Killer Instinct or Eternal Champions, or even stuff like Gundam Wing Endless Duel, they fall way short.

No one who really has explored the PC Engine's library hangs their hat on the selection of fighting games on the system.