Anyone here who doesnt like the Saturn ?

[TheSonicRetard]

What, lets see I had a 2600, 7800, C64, also I still have NES, NES 2, SNES, Gen, SCD, PS(had a N64 but was destroyed in a flood last year), PS 2, a gaming PC, DC, Wii, DS Lite, and GB(I'm planing to get a PSP, and a WiiU, but money is tight). None of the games I've played on the PC-Engine I liked, so you'll have to excuse me if I'm not inlove with the supposed awesome PC-Engine Library.

You own all those common systems, yet you feel compelled to give your opinion on systems like PC Engine, Atari Jaguar, Amiga CD32, etc.

I would expect most everyone on this board has, or has had, those systems you listed above.

[Thenewguy]

There are 4 good fighting games, and then a number of terrible fighting games on the system.

The Mega Drive only has 5 or 6 good fighting games on the system as well though (unless you count all the iterations of Street Fighter and Mortal Kombat separately I guess), and one of those would be the inferior Fatal Fury 2 port.

What's the World Heroes 2 port like on PC-Engine?

[Zoltor]

You own all those common systems, yet you feel compelled to give your opinion on systems like PC Engine, Atari Jaguar, Amiga CD32, etc.

I would expect most everyone on this board has, or has had, those systems you listed above.

Ok you want to play that card huh, if the PC-Engine has this amazing library, it wouldn't have failed so bad.

I really have to see the Japanese exlusives, because there must be something special(for you guys to love it so much), but I don't see it in the NA's library, that's for sure.

To Thenewguy: come to think of it, if the SNES didn't have all the SF 2 games(aka count all the SF 2 games as one game entry), it wouldn't have all that many either, I'm pretty sure the PC-Engine had the most diverse selection of fighters.

[TheSonicRetard]

The Mega Drive only has 5 or 6 good fighting games on the system as well though (unless you count all the iterations of Street Fighter and Mortal Kombat separately I guess), and one of those would be the inferior Fatal Fury 2 port.

What's the World Heroes 2 port like on PC-Engine?

Why wouldn't you count Super Street Fighter II and Street Fighter II CE as different games? Likewise, why wouldn't you cound MK1, MK2, MK3, and UMK3 as different games as well? The Genesis has a much larger fighting game library than the PC Engine. Even ignoring the MK and SF games, you still have B-list fighters like Primal Rage. The library is much more diverse, and not as top-heavy as it is on the PC Engine. I'm not denying that the PCE has some good fighters, but it's one of it's weakest genres based on the number of fighting gamers alone.

World Heroes 2 on the PC Engine is better than the SNES port as well, and is probably the best "b-list" fighter on the system. I never cared much for world heroes, personally. I was much happier to play Super Street Fighter II Turbo or Samurai Shodown II.

[TheSonicRetard]

Ok you want to play that card huh, if the PC-Engine has this amazing library, it wouldn't have failes so bad.

I really have to see the Japanese exlusives, because there must be something special(for you guys to love it so much), but I don't see it in the NA's library, that's for sure.

The PC Engine didn't fail badly. It outsold the Megadrive in Japan.

derp derp guess that means the Megadrive has a shitty library, because if it didn't it wouldn't have failed in japan.

EDIT: Also:

He forms opinions based off of broad (and in this case, very unshared) perceptions about sales popularity and what-not.

yup.

[eddiespruce]

The only reason the Turbografx-16 failed to sell in North America is because of "Bad Marketing". They tried the Japanese approach, only selling the console in major cities, leaving everybody else in small towns uninformed of it's existence.

[TheSonicRetard]

The only reason the Turbografx-16 failed to sell in North America is because of "Bad Marketing". They tried the Japanese approach, only selling the console in major cities, leaving everybody else in small towns uninformed of it's existence.

They also flat-out didn't know what titles to bring over. If you look at early TG-16 advertising, they would show users in the US a flood of japanese game clips, unlabeled, and asked users to write in and tell them what games they wanted.

The library in the US shows how poorly they grasped which titles to port. Stuff like SFII' remained in japan, but we got a terrible localization of Kato & Ken - a game sold primarily on star power in japan.

[Zoltor]

The only reason the Turbografx-16 failed to sell in North America is because of "Bad Marketing". They tried the Japanese approach, only selling the console in major cities, leaving everybody else in small towns uninformed of it's existence.

I'm sure that didn't help(I only recall an advertisement for the system, don't recall any game advertisements), but as far as the major city aspect, I don't think that hurt it at all(most people in the US, live pretty close to a city).

Also I'm not too surprised if it did beat the genny in Japan(don't know if it did or not, so I'll have to take your word, but It's believeable), Sega may be a Japanese company, but before they moved to disc systems, it was very much a US focused company, compared to the Japanese market(they saw the success of the 2600, already had a foot in the door with their Arcade games, so the SMS, and Genny are very much focused(evelutions of that) on the "traditional" US market laid out by Atari)

[TheSonicRetard]

The SMS is an evolution of the SG-3000, not an attempt to mimic Atari.

When Sega brought the SMS to the market, Atari was dead in the water.

[sheath]

According to John Greiner American culture being too "conservative" is what made JJ & Jeff not work in the US.

[Thenewguy]

Why wouldn't you count Super Street Fighter II and Street Fighter II CE as different games?

I don't count them as different games, never have, Super Street Fighter II is more like a full priced add-on expansion to me to be honest. I own both games and the 4 extra characters don't really do much for me, whilst the music is much worse than it was in CE, leading Super to be dumped in storage at the moment, if Super did have fantastic music, then CE would be irrelevant, and it would be CE dumped in storage right now instead.

Mortal Kombat 2 and 3 I guess count as different games, as they have very different gameplay, as well as different rosters, completely different graphics style etc

Even ignoring the MK and SF games, you still have B-list fighters like Primal Rage.

When judging how good a system is for a genre, straight numbers don't really matter to me, so I don't tend to take bad games likes Primal Rage into account, just number of good games.

I really don't have the experience to comment though, maybe I'll think about getting hold of a bunch of PC-Engine fighting games in the future to see for myself

[Zoltor]

The SMS is an evolution of the SG-3000, not an attempt to mimic Atari.

When Sega brought the SMS to the market, Atari was dead in the water.

Atari was dead by the time, but that doesn't mean their games/focus wasn't built on that(it was a combination of the Atari consoles, and their already successful arcade games).

If Sega, and Japan sees it as an evolution of the SG-3000(what are those games like) um ok, different regions can very well see it differently. Well in any case in the US, the other is believed to be the case, which is why the SMS bombed pretty bad(people wanted something different then the atari offered/mess that Atari caused), and why the Genesis did better in the US(people still liked arcade styled games, people just didn't like the flood of clones), then in Japan.

[TheSonicRetard]

Super Street Fighter II is much more than just 4 added characters. Every single existing character has different moves, different combos, and tons of art was changed. It's, at a bare minmum, a bigger change than MK3 and UMK3.

I think a strength of a system relies on two things - quality of library, and quantity of library. A system needs both to consider such a genre a strength. The PC Engine might have quality down (arguably) but it doesn't have quantity.

[TheSonicRetard]

Atari was dead by the time, but that doesn't mean their games/focus wasn't built on that(it was a combination of the Atari consoles, and their already successful arcade games).

If Sega, and Japan sees it as an evolution of the SG-3000(what are those games like) um ok, different regions can very well see it differently. Well in any case in the US, the other is believed to be the case, which is why the SMS bombed pretty bad(people wanted something different then the mess that Atari cause), and why the Genesis did better in the US(people still liked arcade styled games), then in Japan.

They don't see it as an evolution of the SG-3000, it IS an evolution of the SG-3000. The SG-3000 lead to the Mark III, which lead to the SMS. They can all play the same titles.

Your reasoning is unsound. You ignore, or are ignorant of, the success the SMS had in Europe and South America, where the Megadrive performed better than the Genesis. The US isn't sega's strong hold, the UK always was.

You apply personal experience to global expectations, and that's aggravating. "I don't have a PC Engine, so it must have failed!" "I didn't have an SMS, so it must have failed!" Neither console failed world-wide. The PC Engine enjoyed wide-spread success in japan, and the SMS outsold the NES in the UK.

[eddiespruce]

I really don't have the experience to comment though, maybe I'll think about getting hold of a bunch of PC-Engine fighting games in the future to see for myself

Make sure to pick up "Advanced V.G", "Asuka 120%", and "Kabuki Ittouryoudan(Requires the Arcade Card, but it's worth it)".