The PSX Vs Saturn Poll.

[TrekkiesUnite118]

DarkStalkers 3 is the US name for Vampire Savior...

And the PS1 doesn't have loopholes. It's not a legal document for crying out loud.

[MrSega]

DarkStalkers 3 is the US name for Vampire Savior...

And the PS1 doesn't have loopholes. It's not a legal document for crying out loud.

Actually the game is known as Vampire Savior EX in Japan. Not Vampire Savior.

http://www.gamefaqs.com/ps/197056-da...ages/box-10173


Loopholes? It cannot handle Arcade ports very well, due to limited Sprite Resolution and low RAM. Everyone knows that.

Even the most Ardent Playstation fan will tell you that PS1 was poor at doing 2D.

[gamevet]

DarkStalkers 3 is the US name for Vampire Savior...

And the PS1 doesn't have loopholes. It's not a legal document for crying out loud.

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to TrekkiesUnite118 again.

[TrekkiesUnite118]

Actually the game is known as Vampire Savior EX in Japan. Not Vampire Savior.

http://www.gamefaqs.com/ps/197056-da...ages/box-10173


Loopholes? It cannot handle Arcade ports very well, due to limited Sprite Resolution and low RAM. Everyone knows that.

Even the most Ardent Playstation fan will tell you that PS1 was poor at doing 2D.

It's called Vampire Savior EX in Japan because it has some extra content in it. You know, like a bunch of the other CPS2 ports on the PS1, like X-Men vs Street Fighter, etc. It's still Vampire Savior and not some radically different game. If the Saturn port was released in the US it would have most likely been called Darkstalkers 3 as well.

And the PS1's shortcomings are not loopholes. You are using the wrong word you moron.

[Chilly Willy]

Uh... the PS1 has a higher bandwidth for the ram, and has the same amount of system ram as the Saturn. Arguably, the system ram in the PS1 is BETTER because it's one block of high-speed ram where the Saturn split its system ram into two 1MB blocks: 1MB of fast ram, and 1MB of slow ram. The Saturn has an extra 512KB of vram compared to the PS1 (1.5MB vs 1MB), but the PS1 vram again has a higher bandwidth.

The Sprite commands in the PS1 VDP have a limit on the size, but like all older consoles, if your sprites are too small, just use a few together. Smaller sprite sizes are actually a GOOD thing as it can save memory. You might be able to avoid rendering pieces of a 64x64 sprite when it's rendered in 16x16 chunks.

While the PS1 doesn't have the uber 2D hardware the VDP2 gives the Saturn, that hardly makes it POOR at 2D. In general, the PS1 2D is very comparable to the Saturn, with the main compromise in games being frames of animation as the Saturn has a slight edge on vram. Claiming the PS1 is poor at 2D is the same as claiming the Saturn is poor at 3D... it's the same argument the other way around - the Saturn might not have the uber 3D hardware that the PS1 has in the GTE and GPU, but it's hardly POOR at 3D. The same way the Saturn "gets by" at 3D, the PS1 "gets by" at 2D.

[TrekkiesUnite118]

The Cartridge Port is also a pretty nice hardware feature of the Saturn that the PS1 doesn't have.

[j_factor]

While the PS1 doesn't have the uber 2D hardware the VDP2 gives the Saturn, that hardly makes it POOR at 2D. In general, the PS1 2D is very comparable to the Saturn, with the main compromise in games being frames of animation as the Saturn has a slight edge on vram. Claiming the PS1 is poor at 2D is the same as claiming the Saturn is poor at 3D... it's the same argument the other way around - the Saturn might not have the uber 3D hardware that the PS1 has in the GTE and GPU, but it's hardly POOR at 3D. The same way the Saturn "gets by" at 3D, the PS1 "gets by" at 2D.

I agree with you, but a lot of people combine those two claims. People have a tendency to say: "Saturn was a BEAST for 2D, but a DISASTER for 3D! And Playstation was GREAT for 3D, but it was SHIT for 2D!"

[Chilly Willy]

The Cartridge Port is also a pretty nice hardware feature of the Saturn that the PS1 doesn't have.

Yes, it's one big feature I wish the PS1 had. Imagine if the PS1 had had a 4MB ram cart like the Saturn.

I agree with you, but a lot of people combine those two claims. People have a tendency to say: "Saturn was a BEAST for 2D, but a DISASTER for 3D! And Playstation was GREAT for 3D, but it was SHIT for 2D!"

Yeah, I used to think that myself before I learned more about both systems. While it might be more difficult, both systems have games that prove the claims are false.

[mrbigreddog]

I think Saturn was the correct step in technology for the time, I always hated the "wiggly" 3D on psx games. N64 got it right, but PC was still winning at the time. OpenGL Quake on my 200mhz PC blew away Quake console ports!

But I'm getting off topic, Saturn was to be a better 2D console that the Genesis and that's what it was! Lots of quality games! Psx was that 1st Wii with shovelware titles galore! So much crap! Diamonds in the rough, but not a lot that took harness of the 3D. IMO anyways!

And that best 3D games on Saturn are on par with psx.

[evilevoix]

I need to get some Saturn Stuff. I need controllers and a SCART lead, any links?

[Armoured Priest]

Yes, it's one big feature I wish the PS1 had. Imagine if the PS1 had had a 4MB ram cart like the Saturn.

Would have been nice if more games had used the 4MEG cart..or at all in the West

I was always under the impression that the Saturn had more RAM compared to the PS1. I seem to recall that was one of the points as to why people though Grandia couldn't be done on the PS1 (which turned out to be not true, but that's a different conversation), or why the Capcom Dungeons & Dragons beat-em-up ports were never finished for the PS1.

Yeah, I used to think that myself before I learned more about both systems. While it might be more difficult, both systems have games that prove the claims are false.

Agreed.

[Chilly Willy]

Would have been nice if more games had used the 4MEG cart..or at all in the West

Yeah, only a few games used it, and they were Japanese. The 1M cart saw more usage, I believe. And there were a few games that came with a rom cart.

I was always under the impression that the Saturn had more RAM compared to the PS1. I seem to recall that was one of the points as to why people though Grandia couldn't be done on the PS1 (which turned out to be not true, but that's a different conversation), or why the Capcom Dungeons & Dragons beat-em-up ports were never finished for the PS1.

Perhaps the one area the Saturn wins through sheer brute force and memory is the CD - the Saturn has another half meg devoted to the CD subsystem along with yet another processor (an SH1); this allows the Saturn to ask for files and decompress on the fly into CD memory where the Saturn side can merely read the final data. The PS1 does not have a separate processor for the CD, so it would need to handle the CD filesystem itself, load into system memory, decompress the data into system memory, and then move it to where it would be needed. If a developer used compressed data for both systems, that would use extra memory on the PS1 compared to the Saturn and make it slower. You really want to either use decompressed data, or keep the compression simple on the PS1 for data on CD. This probably affected load times as well - people sometimes say the Saturn CD was faster... it's not faster, it has an extra CPU helping to process the data faster compared to the PS1.

[DarkDragon]

Out of all the fighting 2D Capcom PSX ports, Darkstalkers 3 was the one where I noticed the least amount of animations missing. Its not as noticeable as SF Alpha III for example where I noticed more stuff was missing especially with the character intros.

[TrekkiesUnite118]

Yeah, only a few games used it, and they were Japanese. The 1M cart saw more usage, I believe. And there were a few games that came with a rom cart.




Perhaps the one area the Saturn wins through sheer brute force and memory is the CD - the Saturn has another half meg devoted to the CD subsystem along with yet another processor (an SH1); this allows the Saturn to ask for files and decompress on the fly into CD memory where the Saturn side can merely read the final data. The PS1 does not have a separate processor for the CD, so it would need to handle the CD filesystem itself, load into system memory, decompress the data into system memory, and then move it to where it would be needed. If a developer used compressed data for both systems, that would use extra memory on the PS1 compared to the Saturn and make it slower. You really want to either use decompressed data, or keep the compression simple on the PS1 for data on CD. This probably affected load times as well - people sometimes say the Saturn CD was faster... it's not faster, it has an extra CPU helping to process the data faster compared to the PS1.

If I remember correctly doesn't the Saturn's CD ROM drive have a slightly faster data transfer speed or something like that? Though if I also remember correctly it's probably not enough to make much of a difference.

[TVC 15]

How could Sega get the Saturn so right in many ways and so very very wrong in others. Chilly I realise the SH-1 apart from decompression and CD house keeping isn't used for much else, but could the CD-sub system decompression have been used in an hackish way to circumvent the limited sound ram for samples?

More random tech shit for my mind to think about.