The PSX Vs Saturn Poll.

[Chilly Willy]

How could Sega get the Saturn so right in many ways and so very very wrong in others. Chilly I realise the SH-1 apart from decompression and CD house keeping isn't used for much else, but could the CD-sub system decompression have been used in an hackish way to circumvent the limited sound ram for samples?

More random tech shit for my mind to think about.

I suppose sounds could have been read from the CD and left in the CD cache until they were needed. But then you need to transfer them from the CD into sound memory. At some point, the bus bandwidth absorbed by all the data movement will affect the game. If there's one big problem with the Saturn, it's that most of the custom chips are on a 16-bit bus. Both the A and B buses (which is most all the custom chips and the CD interface) are 16 bits. Of course, a lot of people don't realize the N64 used a 16-bit bus as well.

[StarMist]

I'm not so sure even in terms of percentage 'cause there are so many tons of JP cheapo garbage in the PS1 side that IDK, eheh.

Nah, it's proportionally even with the SS's JP cheapo garbage quantity. The PS US side is worse because it was the main US system so there's US shovelware, mainly sports. Not that some of the sports titles weren't good but they're hard to sift through retrospectively.

Something that I would enjoy to do and we could do here (if with a lighthearted and honored approach) would be to compare genre by genre (we don't need to adopt any stupid genre label or convention; I would be fine with you saying something like "X genre and these are the good games on the Saturn side" and listing them so I could pick similar games on the PS1 side). I really don't mean to judge games or say which one is better than the other, we could just list the good ones of each side. I think it could be cool, I always discover new games in such comparisons. What do you think, Trekkies everybody?

Yes let's do this. In a dedicated thread.
With these provisions:

I think you could start with the 2D fighters you find relevant/good/you have some personal preference in the Saturn side. Then I'll do the same for the PS1 side. Comments are welcome but without ripping the another's choices; like I said, the honor system will be the base of the choices (for an example: listing PS1's Double Dragon (which is a very poor port by all accounts) as a good 2D fighter just to expand the list is a low blow IMO). So, let's do it?

We could rate the games we list by using a single letter to represent the quality/how much we enjoy that game.
We could use something like: S (Superb)>>A (Excellent)>B (Good)>C (OK but still relevant; avoid generic cheapo titles). I think We should not list D quality titles... And use S only for outstanding/superb titles inside that genre. But still it would be a personal thing (not any "scientific" rating system is required here, something really relaxed), without any reason to explain it and even less to blame the another's rating.
For an example: Ultimate Mortal Kombat 3 (B-)
We could use + and - marks to express it a bit better when needed...

[NostalgicMachine]

This thread is making me want to re-buy a PS1, just to play SoTN.

[A Black Falcon]

PS1 was more basic and easier to program than Saturn. Although there were loopholes around its underpowered tech, and other ways around its poor RAM bandwidth and low CPU memory, I'd rather get a true arcade experience then have some extra features that seem conveiant for someone who doesn't really understand Arcade style games.

Also as I recall, DarkStalkers 3 and Vampire Hunter: Lord of The Vampire aren't the same game. I believe their totally different.

http://www.gamefaqs.com/saturn/19917...f-vampire/faqs

http://www.gamefaqs.com/ps/197056-darkstalkers-3

Good Argument of PS1's loopholes though.

As some people said, "loopholes" really is not the word that you were looking for... As for Darkstalkers, though, Vampire Hunter is the second game, aka Night Warriors: DarkStalkers' Revenge. Vampire Hunter 2 and Vampire Savior 2, though, are arcade games released after the arcade version of Vampire Savior, aka DarkStalkers 3. They basically are new rulesets for Vampire Savior. The PS1 version of DarkStalkers 3 allows you to play either the standard ruleset, or either of those other ones. It's something that the PS1 has but the Saturn port doesn't.

Have you actually played the Saturn version? It may not have as much bonus content as the Playstation version, but it's not just a bare bones arcade version. The Saturn version has around 50 extra costumes and different play modes. Doesn't the Playstation version also run at like 30 fps (I haven't seen it in years)? If so, the gameplay tweaks likely don't make up for gameplay at half the framerate.

You're right, the Saturn version does add some stuff. It looks like the Saturn version has maybe 9 costumes each for the female characters, versus ~15 for the PS1 version. The arcade version has just 3 costumes per character. Oh, and yeah, I have DoA1 for PS1 and DoA Ultimate for Xbox, but don't have the Saturn version (though of course the Xbox version is based on the Saturn one).

As for framerates, I have no idea what framerate the game runs at. It's fast enough, anyway, I think.

The developers for Dead Or Alive are on record stating they feel the Saturn version is the superior version. Honestly I don't see how costumes could possibly balance out a higher frame rate. An additional character maybe, but even that's a stretch.

So because they say that means that we all must agree with them? But anyway, it was disappointing that DoA1U didn't put Ayane in. She should have been in the game, she was in the PS1 version and I'm sure they could have added her had they wanted to. The missing (PS1-only) costumes are unfortunate but not as bad, but seriously, don't cut a character just because you want to port the Saturn version only.

And DarkStalkers3 is a bit silly. The only character missing in the Saturn version is Marionette, and that's only if you count that as a character. It's more of a secret feature in the later revisions that lets you play nothing but mirror matches. Shadow however is in the Saturn version. The Arcade Update modes really don't make that dramatic of a difference if I remember correctly, they basically change the music and a few other minor things. It's nothing to write home about. A lot of those same options are available in the Saturn version under the hidden EX menu. You can even put the Saturn version in English if you want from that menu. Honestly what ever bonus content the PS1 version brings to the table, it's not enough to make it on par with or better than the Saturn version.

Have you played the PS1 version? The character-building mode is pretty cool. It lets you do a custom color scheme for your character, and then you can level them up by fighting. It doesn't take all that long to max out the levels, but still, it gets you a custom name and color for a character, which is cool. The Saturn version doesn't have color edit, does it... and the PS1 version does have a few more options too. You are right though that the only PS1-only character is Marionette.

EDIT: And Final Fantasy VIII is over rated?! That's news to me. I thought the general consensus was that it was the Black Sheep of the PS1 Final Fantasy games and generally hated among the FF fanboy crowd.

I thought that that was the consensus as well.

me being from the netherlands the cdi was fairly popular here and is still very easy and cheap to come by. I own 4 different cdi's and tons of games and can honeslty say it has the most obscure videogame library of any system and I mean that both good and really bad. if you like really good quality fmv games though this system is for you. many people say how incredible 3do is in video quality but cdi looks a ton better even than 3do. great example is lost eden, which is a great fmv game:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GikeMZdbT0U

still watching it on cdi makes you go, holy shit, back in mid to early 90s the cdi was something you'd never seen before.

also it has superior versions in non fmv game that are very good like lords of rising sun (turbografx and amiga)

Phillips is from the Netherlands, yes? That would explain why the CD-i was more popular there than anywhere else... but in the US, the system and its games are quite rare. The system lasted years longer in Europe, too -- I think that in the US it died in late '94, with Zelda's Adventure, while in Europe the CD-i had games for four years after that.

I think the main "advantage" of the CD-i is that you can buy the VCD module for almost nothing and that you can find some small collections of CD-i movies (they are basically VCDs but the menus will only work on the CD-i AFAIK) for dirty cheap being auctioned on eBay. If you are crazy for some nostalgia with old CD movies, well, it may be your choice (even if only for the sake of your Saturn's laser preservation - supposing you have its VCD card).

A bunch of the better FMV games require the digital video cartridge too, actually. It's not just for VCD movies. The games that require or benefit from it are the main reason to get it.

In terms of FMV games I find its library pretty boring. OK, the video quality is very good for the time but in terms of titles it doesn't hold a candle to the Sega CD library. And even comparing to the 3DO (whose FMV library is not as good as the Sega CD's), I think the 3DO has the edge.
Well, at least if you like light gun games. The 3DO versions of the American Laser Games are the only ones to have simultaneous 2P mode (in the other versions you have to alternate). So if you can spend money with the pricey 3DO ALG guns, you can have the proper arcade FMV experience in your home, brought to you by the almighty (hehe) American Laser Games.
The fact that the CD-i doesn't have a Night Trap version is also a detractor IMO.

It probably is true that the 3DO is better than CD-i for FMV light-gun games, but that's far from the only genre of FMV game... (As for Night Trap, I haven't played it, but if it's as awful as Double Switch, I could care less if a system has it or not.)

Actually the game is known as Vampire Savior EX in Japan. Not Vampire Savior.

http://www.gamefaqs.com/ps/197056-da...ages/box-10173

Yeah.

Loopholes? It cannot handle Arcade ports very well, due to limited Sprite Resolution and low RAM. Everyone knows that.

Even the most Ardent Playstation fan will tell you that PS1 was poor at doing 2D.

The PS1 may be "poor" at 2d compared to the Saturn, but when you look at games like Symphony of the Night, Gradius Gaiden, Strikers 1945 (US title; it's Strikers 1945 II in Japan), and more, the system can do some pretty nice things in 2d... it does struggle with 2d fighting games, though, that is true. Darkstalkers 3 is about as good as it gets for PS1 2d fighters. But the PS1 can do great 2d platformers and shmups. 2d Platformers and shmups are sometimes better looking on PS1 than Saturn, in fact.

[TrekkiesUnite118]

Again, I don't see the character building stuff as that worthwhile for Vampire Savior. I play my 2D Fighters for the Arcade Mode and Versus mode. Now if it was like the Home port of Street Fighter Alpha 3 with all the fun stuff that adds, then you'd have a point, but it's not.

Though if it's worth it I can upload a video of the Saturn EX menu. While there's not a color edit mode, it does have some nice extras.

[Chilly Willy]

I've actually got Star Trek VI on CDi... don't have a CDi, but with the proper filesystem you can play the mpeg stream straight off the discs.

[sheath]

How is the video quality in comparison the standard VCD or Laserdisk? I couldn't get even short videos to look VHS quality with my Dreamcast VCD software.

[A Black Falcon]

[tim333]

And Final Fantasy VIII is over rated?! That's news to me. I thought the general consensus was that it was the Black Sheep of the PS1 Final Fantasy games and generally hated among the FF fanboy crowd.

Oh, is it? Never mind then, I guess it's rated about where it ought to be.

[TrekkiesUnite118]

Oh, is it? Never mind then, I guess it's rated about where it ought to be.

Perhaps you were thinking of Final Fantasy VII. Now that one is over rated. Personally though I liked Final Fantasy VIII. It's one of my favorite ones. Though it's obviously not for everyone.

[j_factor]

FF8 was highly rated right when it came out though. It's not overrated now, but it was in 1999.

[Chilly Willy]

How is the video quality in comparison the standard VCD or Laserdisk? I couldn't get even short videos to look VHS quality with my Dreamcast VCD software.

It's EXACTLY the same as standard VCD, so it depends on the MPEG1 encoder they used to master the discs. My ST6 discs look pretty good, but it's been a while since I watched it, so I can't say exactly how good. Need to dig it out and check it out again. Not all enocding software is the same. There was an encoder... what was the name... Tsunami I think. I generated MPEG1 VCD and SVCD streams that were better than commercial. The SVCD in particular rivaled Laserdisc in my opinion.

[Team Andromeda]

I suppose sounds could have been read from the CD and left in the CD cache until they were needed.

I believe ADX allowed Saturn developed to do that , not that it matters . SEGA really should have put a put more memory in to solve that issue

So because they say that means that we all must agree with them

No , but if one plays both the Saturn and PS versions it's quite clear which version is best home version

The PS1 may be "poor" at 2d compared to the Saturn, but when you look at games like Symphony of the Night, Gradius Gaiden, Strikers 1945

Not this Strikers 1945 again ? Why people keep on bringing that game up I do not know , In The Hunt is the one 2D game that is much better on the PS than the Saturn versions . Also Gradius Gaiden and Symphony of the Night are not souly 2D , but use polygon graphics and 2D effects through out the games and on that score Psychic Assassin Taromaru destroys both of them in one wants to go down that route

me being from the netherlands the cdi was fairly popular here and is still very easy and cheap to come by.

Ahh another CDI fan. I used to really like mine and the FMV games on the system were great.

[A Black Falcon]

Not this Strikers 1945 again ? Why people keep on bringing that game up I do not know , In The Hunt is the one 2D game that is much better on the PS than the Saturn versions . Also Gradius Gaiden and Symphony of the Night are not souly 2D , but use polygon graphics and 2D effects through out the games and on that score Psychic Assassin Taromaru destroys both of them in one wants to go down that route

Strikers 1945 II has better visuals on PS1 than Saturn. (That is, I was referring to Strikers 1945 II, the game released in the US on PS1 as "Strikers 1945".) See this: http://www.racketboy.com/retro/pheno...shmups-library He also says that Dodonpachi also has better graphics on PS1 than Saturn. Specifically, Strikers 1945 1 and Donpachi look better on Saturn, while their sequels Dodonpachi and Strikers 1945 II look better on PS1.

In the Hunt also has much less slowdown on PS1 than Saturn, and has backup save and a CD audio soundtrack option too, two things that don't exist on the Saturn release.

[TrekkiesUnite118]

Donpachi looks worse on the Saturn if I remember correctly. DoDonPachi looks fine on the Saturn in TATE mode. Though the explosions are still slightly pixelated, they look substantially better than in Yoko mode or DonPachi from what I remember. Honestly DoDonPachi is a game I think the PS1 get's too much credit for. Yeah the Saturn version has some slowdown (which if I remember correctly is still better than the Arcade verison) and the explosions are slightly pixelated, it still is a great port that looks and plays great. And it has the ability to have 2 different ships chosen in 2 Player mode, which the PS1 port lacks. The Saturn port also has Saturn mode and a bonus level.

The only aspects of DoDonpachi that are better on the PS1 are the slowdown (which is debatable if you want slowdown considering the game), and the explosion graphics. Honestly I don't think that's enough to say it's hands down better. I'd say they are more even with their own perks that appeal to different people.