Japanese Cultural Fetish

[Kamahl]

I'd say the robot is even worse than the girl... That's a really lame robot.

[TVC 15]

Amazing Tasuke, you've posted the same troll-bait you've put out in Neo forums and selected threads here, I'm gonna sidestep the whole issue of attacking you, that wouldn't be fair, even though some of your interests generally repulse me but, each to there own. My issue is why have you used the same name on this forum as that on other forums where you've been personally attacked? And posted the same material (bait) from before? Surely you would use the anonymity of the net to start over, but you just seem to post this crap with intent.

Please don't use the, "I can call myself what I like on these threads, its a free world, I like the name etc" line, but this whole conundrum it genuinely fascinates me. Is this some form of quest to intentionally victimise yourself? I understand this is in insert-coin (and was probably meant for off-topic), so as members we can feel free to post a wide gamut of material on these parts of the forum, but do you not understand that there are some social norms that work on most forums. Even when we might suggest that there arent and "everybody's different' these norms do exist.

I just don't understand this internet persona you've cultivated for yourself, it completely does a disservice to some of the stuff that you post that is genuinely worth reading here. Constantly posting those same images of Macross/Mecha toys and your pioneer receivers, nobody wants to see them after once or twice, I'll be honest and say I was quite impressed at first, I love old AV equipment shit but what are you after? Approval?

If this seems an attack, by all means report it, but this is a genuine question I want to ask. Surely there are other forums where you express these interests, without us having to see more creepy 'moe' anime girls, this is a forum where anybody (with in reason) can join, but surely just as you can exercise the right to join you can respect peoples right not to see this stuff. You've been parodied and mocked many times before on this forum simply because we don't like seeing some of your interests.

Its now seems its gotten to the point where this stuff is posted with intent for attention, surely its better that people laugh with you, than laugh at you? You must surely realise you make a mockery of yourself, and this probably just feeds into a feedback loop of self-depreciation and damage to your confidence, I've even seen some of your posts outright mocked yourself joining in with your detractors. Why do it?

[j_factor]

ummm, you DO know that every last one of those series has/had their roots quite deeply buried in aping directly off of Japanese-originated source materials, don't you?

Yeah, and America invented video games. So what?

[Tasuke]

Thats gorgeous.

Not the girl, ew. Your pioneer equipment though? Yumyum.

sorry, Kemosabe, i'd have to strongly disagree with you there.

lady Mikuru Asahina there is what i consider to be "The Last Lovely Female Anime Character" and her overt "Moe-ness" happens to be just fine by me, thankyouverymuchindeed.

i tend to agree though, that Anime/Manga has rather lost touch in recent years,
and most of what is kicked out the door today is simply of little/no substance/consequence.

it all pretty well ran out of steam around 2007ish or thereabouts, AFAIAC...

I'd say the robot is even worse than the girl... That's a really lame robot.

and what would you know about the greatest transformable Mecha (Robot) design of all time?

Amazing Tasuke, you've posted the same troll-bait you've put out in Neo forums and selected threads here, I'm gonna sidestep the whole issue of attacking you, that wouldn't be fair, even though some of your interests generally repulse me but, each to there own. My issue is why have you used the same name on this forum as that on other forums where you've been personally attacked? And posted the same material (bait) from before? Surely you would use the anonymity of the net to start over, but you just seem to post this crap with intent.

ummm, i guess that it's because it's what happen to be IN TO, i suppose?

Haters are, as they say, going to Hate, as is their prerogative.
that said, i'm the kind of fellow that tends to feel that i personally cannot be bothered by walking into a forum with the mindset
that EVERYONE there is automatically a "Hater" by definition, post haste...

Please don't use the, "I can call myself what I like on these threads, its a free world, I like the name etc" line, but this whole conundrum it genuinely fascinates me. Is this some form of quest to intentionally victimise yourself? I understand this is in insert-coin (and was probably meant for off-topic), so as members we can feel free to post a wide gamut of material on these parts of the forum, but do you not understand that there are some social norms that work on most forums. Even when we might suggest that there arent and "everybody's different' these norms do exist

i did not start this thread, i am merely participating in it.
after all, it is, for me anyway, a very relevant subject...

[Kamahl]

I do commend Tasuke for sticking to his tastes.

[Tasuke]

Quoted From: http://neojaponisme.com/2011/11/30/t...re-part-three/


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-*- Aeon Says: -*-

December 1, 2011 at 2:19 pm

Are modern otaku really that bad? Reading “otaku” being used as a punching bag in these comments is making me suspicious of the sentiment that they are really that vile. Even if they are unsociable and prone to conservative tastes toward new material, I find the disdain directed toward them here to be very excessive. I can’t imagine how a group that has a reputation of not interacting with others very much or very well, nor have very much (non-cultural) power be able to do anything to really cause a disproportionate share of causing Japan’s problems.
I also find the “nerd”/”otaku” “difference” to be a difference without a distinction- a “nerd” seems to be defined in this dichotomy as able to socially function, as opposed to the anti-social “otaku”; this completely ignores the long running sterotype of the nerd as a socially inept intellectual type, usually without any friends or only being friends with other nerds. This only changed with computers becoming more dominant and the majority of the people working with them were the “nerds”, this made nerds no longer be considered social pariahs because they were the people who made and used the technology that runs the modern world. However, even after that, people still consider nerds socially inept, declaring that many nerds must suffer from Asperger’s syndrome or somehow are lacking in empathy; nerds are cultually “pathologized” for not conforming to behavior expected of “normal” members.
The unsocibility of modern otaku I would say is more likely due to sociocultural forces that fail to emotionally invest them in (for a lack of a better word, there is no actual thing as ‘normal society”, only whats acceptable to the majority of members) “normal” society, which is unwelcoming, and integrate themselves in an insular yet realativly inviting subcultural group. These sociocultural forces work together with poor economic prospects to encourage an extended bachelorhood that focuses on cultural activity. I really don’t think ill of them because I really don’t see anything that they do that especially wrong.


-*- MattA Says: -*-

December 1, 2011 at 3:01 pm

“I think it is a bit different. ”

Point taken. But then I’m a little hazy on what we’re arguing here. If we say a marginal subculture (the otaku being one) is taking root without a mass core, how do we explain things like the life-sized Gundam statue in Odaiba attracting four million plus visitors in the summer of 2009? (Many of whom appeared to be families with children, on the days I was covering it.) Perhaps otaku values have percolated a little deeper into the mass core than we think.

I also have to question this bit: “Japan’s largest and most hallowed culture companies such as Magazine House, Nintendo, Sony, and Uniqlo mostly hire graduates from Waseda, Keio, and other top universities.” I think this is true for the managerial level, but it is absolutely not the case for the actual workers producing the content. I know this because I have interacted with some seriously off the wall dudes (and very occasionally dudettes) who were brought on board because of their coding skills or whatever. And if that’s the case are otaku really outcasts anymore?


-*- M-Bone Says: -*-

December 1, 2011 at 10:45 pm

Of anime/manga and related cultural products, I would guess that 50% are consumed by 16 and unders (who it is difficult to talk about in terms of pathology), 25% are consumed by ordinary manga readers and people who consume diverse cultural products and 25% are consumed by what you could describe as committed otaku – who are indeed a diverse group. I’ve been using it to describe the moe/dojinshi consumers.

If it sounds like I am being mean to otaku, guilty as charged. 2000s otaku are the ones responsible for 50% of anime product being geared around showing the panties of 14 year olds to the audience. They are directly to blame for the decline in serious Japanese scifi as their affective tastes have changed the industry. They have created something truly special in the form of a billion USD fan art dojinshi community that blurs the line between producer and consumer, but squandered pretty much the whole thing on images of little girls being brutally gang raped. If we need to settle on a definition of otaku, this should be it as it is this group that has been most new, visible, and successful during the 15 year shift that Marxy describes. I actually have a lot more sympathy for fujoshi – at least their “boy’s love” stuff isn’t so ruthlessly hetero-normative.

It isn’t just me anyway, just about every creator from Oshii and Miyazaki to Anno and the 80s generation speak of them with contempt.

I actually don’t think that it has directly negative social effects (outside of the individual).

We need a typology of otaku, I guess.


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[16-bit]

Personally, I have an interest in eastern language and culture in general, and it's not because I consider myself an “otaku” or have some ridiculous obsession with moe or whatever the hell it's called. I'm going to school to be an English as a second language teacher. I think in my case it's just a genuine interest in people and learning about how they live, and things that they do.

Do I like some anime and JRPGs? Yes, I love 2d animation, I like good stories, and I like good games. It doesn't matter where these things come from, as long as they're told well. Some of my favorite films of all time are animes: Grave of the Fireflies, Millennium Actress, and Spirited Away, I enjoy them just as much as American films with good stories that are told in ways that I enjoy.

I'm not going to lie that I prefer a lot of anime to American animation, that's just because of the subject matter that happens to be covered in anime movies compared to the animated movies made in North America. That's not to say that American animation studios are incapable, I think that Iron Giant was a very good example of what North American 2D animation studios are capable of. Sure it was ok for kids to watch, but there were some pretty mature themes throughout the movie being dealt with.

JRPGs, well I'm not going to lie, I'm not really fond of most games released in the past 10 years or so. There have been a few games that I have really enjoyed Valkyria Chronicles and Mother 3 are the only ones that come to mind for me right now. I will admit though, that I've missed a lot of PSP and DS games released by Xseed and Atlus).

I think a lot of that really has to do with a lot of them just fallowing stereotypes that people have already mentioned in this thread in terms of character design and story.

TLDR: I like what I like.

[kool kitty89]

As for me personally on JP vs "western" games in general. I'd have to say I have a preference for western games, though I like a lot of Japanese stuff too.
The strong chunk of western stuff would be largely tied to classic (and a number of newer) PC games, especially space combat sims (like the X-Wing series) and graphic adventure games, among a few others. (some good FPSs for sure, and mix of good RPGs and strategy games, though I've got much less experience with those)

There's also a lot of early (pre NES) classics that I like, most US developed, and then a mix of newer console games (from the NES up to modern consoles), but in those cases a lot more mixed in Japanese stuff I like too. (probably a lead on western developed stuff for 3D games at least)

What extreme revisionist history. First and foremost, Sega always had strong western software. Remember games like Toejam & Earl? Ecco the Dolphin? The Genesis version of Michael Jackson's moonwalker? Not to mention that, in 1992, the Sonic series moved from japan to the US.

second, in no way could 1992 be considered sega's financial peak - that would be 1994, the year they overtook nintendo in the global market.

Don't forget the sports games. (after all, the Genesis was THE sports system in its heyday)

There used to be some freaking amazing Animes in the old days. Today? Mostly garbage for otakus or whatever they're called. Same goes for games, specially RPGs. JRPGs (talking Super Famicom era here) used to obliterate most western RPGs, today it's the other way around.
Now if you'll excuse me, I'll go back to reading Berserk, Vagabond and Vinland Saga.

In terms of animated TV series and such (I'm not into comic books, so I can't comment much there), there's a bit of the same problem in the west too. There was a burst of quality kids and mixed adult/kids/spectrum animated shows that appeared in the 90s (and trickled off into the early 2000s) that were really awesome. And that's not just from me growing up at the time . . . there's a lot of older stuff I was watching at that point (and some more generic newer stuff) that I liked at the time, but look back on with heavier critcism (compared to some of the unique fun/quirky or -especially- some of the more complex/deep stories of the better 90s shows).

Japanese media seems to have roughly mirrored this too, with a huge number of the awesome semi-mainstream anime stuff appearing in the 90s, with a few good earlier examples and a mix of good later ones. (but as mentioned, a glut of other stuff more recently obscuring the better examples) There's also some crappier sequels/spin-offs to older series that were pretty great. (the older Tenchi Muyo stuff was pretty good, especially Universe, but the newer examples got way off from the better aspects of that -actually, the original Tenchi Muyo! Ryo-Ohki was already a lot more like that in the early 90s, but that got stalled early on and finally finished in the mid 2000s, with the slightly later mid 90s Tenchi Universe running continuously to completeness following the halting of Ryo-Ohki -and that's the series that I really like, more toned down in the "fan service" BS by far and a better developed overall story IMO -by comparison the final chunk of RyoOki completed in the mid 2000s was rather disappointing, though not really more so than the 1992 counterpart -the excessive "fan service" aspects get old really fast IMO, and that's a problem with a number of newer series too, including some otherwise good ones)

In the US, network programming of animated TV shows (kids or otherwise) has pretty much died off completely with the limited remainder on a couple cable channels (namely Nickelodion and Cartoon Network). And, from what I've seen, there's a handful of decent/good shows that pass through there once in a while, but nothing like the 90s era of cartoons/animated shows/mini series. (where there were usually multiple genuinely good quality shows on in any given period -and occasionally arguably great ones)

[kool kitty89]

I think the rise in people liking things like Anime can be related to the decline in US created entertainment. Look at whats on US TV these days. It's all cop shows and reality TV. There's no interesting shows like we used to have in the 90s. There's no shows that follow a unique story where you follow it because you like the characters and the plot. Anime tends to fill this void. If there was a new Star Trek series I'd stop watching anime in a heartbeat and watch it instead. But there's not. So I've found myself over the years watching things like Initial D, Wangan Midnight One Piece, InuYasha, Full Metal Alchemist, Full Metal Panic, Neon Genesis Evangelion, etc. simply because those shows are more like the TV shows I used to watch and enjoyed.

There's several good (IMO) live action sci-fi and fantasy shows on right now . . . though you're right when you say "cop" crime oriented stuff since most of those have a tie-in to that as well (as X-Files did), with the likes of GRIMM, Fringe, or Alcatraz. (not so much for shows like Eureka, Warehouse 13, Sanctuary, or Supernatural)

There's certainly an over-emphasis on police/crime solving drama shows now though . . . and too many that are pure drama related (as well written as some are). Good Guys broke that a couple years back (with a comedy oriented example of that genre), but that died unfortunately -possibly due to the timeslot. (I really like that show, laugh out loud quirky fun)

There's also a few decent sitcoms still on too, if you like those. (too many to list, and I've never cared for the likes of The Office, but Raising Hope, The Newgirl, Big Bang Theory, and a couple others are pretty fun IMO)

If you're looking for scri-fi/fantasy themed stuff though, the options on broadcast network TV are limited (pretty much just Fringe, Alcatraz, and Grimm -or maybe Secret Circle if you're more tolerant of the soap-opera-esque style), though there's a fair bit more on cable, especially through SyFy.


But as for animated stuff, yes, that's definitely gone way down hill in the US (more than Japan), and there's only a couple (arguably) decent examples around now. (mostly on Cartoon Network)

[zetastrike]

But as for animated stuff, yes, that's definitely gone way down hill in the US (more than Japan), and there's only a couple (arguably) decent examples around now. (mostly on Cartoon Network)

See my avatar

[16-bit]

You know who else thinks Cartoon Network has gone downhill?

[eddiespruce]

You know who else thinks Cartoon Network has gone downhill?

I wouldn't know, we don't even get Cartoon Network where I'm from.

[kokujin]

You know who else thinks Cartoon Network has gone downhill?

Don't even get me started,CN of the 90's was amazing.Everybody was on their A game.Fox, WB, you couldn't lose.

[zetastrike]

You know who else thinks Cartoon Network has gone downhill?

I don't think they're getting it.

[kool kitty89]

Don't even get me started,CN of the 90's was amazing.Everybody was on their A game.Fox, WB, you couldn't lose.

That's more or less what I said above, though more prominently on the network and syndicated stuff. CN is almost all that's left (in terms of mainstream TV), and there's basically nothing on broadcast/network stuff anymore.

In terms of decline, I think CN has gotten a bit better recently in term of programming compared to where it slipped a couple years ago.

See my avatar

Yes, The Regular Show and Adventure Time are a couple of the current "good" examples IMO. (Regular Show also gets bonus points for the SMS )
Those are more in the fun/quirky category than deep/complex/plot-oriented though (let alone examples that do both reasonably well -Beast Wars comes to mind).

I don't watch those regularly (only get broadcast TV and haven't bothered to download or stream either), but I definitely like them. The re-imagined Thundercats looked a bit promising (saw the pilot) and it's been well received by fans and critics, but I haven't looked into that again either. (looked decent at least -in terms of a more complex, story-driven, western animated series) It's definitely better than its namesake if nothing else. (and yes, it's in that western pseudo-anime art style, but I really don't mind that either)