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Thread: System Shock - the game the world wasn't ready for

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    _-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_ Master of Shinobi NeoZeedeater's Avatar
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    Default System Shock - the game the world wasn't ready for

    The first System Shock game still hasn't received the level of respect I think it deserves. It's not often that a game is ahead of its time in so many ways and does those elements so well that it totally stands the test of time. I love its sequel, too, but it overshadows it far too much.

    Doom was the first corridor shooter for many. System Shock came out shortly afterwards and would have far too intimidating for most people back then.

    In 1994 it had:

    - True 3d environments
    - A physics system with weapons recoil and object weight
    - Alternate firing settings
    - Weapon variety: various guns, melee, time bombs, land mines, tranquilizer darts, gas grenades, electrical weapons, etc.
    - Item variety: medpacks, detox patches, battery packs, sight enhancers
    - Mission objectives
    - Voice acting (SHODAN's still the coolest enemy voice in a game, IMO)
    - Story elements that unfold by the player's exploration
    - In-game scripted events
    - Mouse aiming
    - Leaning and crouching
    - Game settings to make the game more or less combat or puzzle oriented
    - A map where you can make notes and a setting to display it while playing
    - Character upgrades: jet boots, lantern, hacking software, speed boosters



    So yeah, I hope more people will check out the game (preferably the CD-ROM version with the voices) via DOSBox/Dfend or whatever.The old school graphics and atypical controls might turn you off at first but it's well worth sticking with.

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    Pirate King Phantar's Avatar
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    "What have you done, you impudent insect?! If I am to die now, then I will avenge myself on you. My cybernetic children will feed on your flesh, and none will ever know of your deeds, or even your name. Enjoy your victory, human, for the remainder of your short... life..."

    Yeah, SHODAN was an awesome, creepy villain! The game was great, but I had to wait until the CD-Version rolled around until I owned a PC that was technically capable of actually running the game - and even then I only could run it in the inferior VGA-graphics mode. Nevertheless, the experience was incredible, being freely able to look around, actual jumping, real puzzles, the odd, but strangely compelling cyperspace section, a nice range of enemies (those damn invisible creatures always f*cked my sh*it right up). And generally there were a couple of ways to complete a section, so in that regard, it served as a predecessor to the likes of Deus Ex and such (which isn't surprising, since Warren Spector worked on both games).

    If I had to criticize anything about the game - aside from the high technical requirements - than it is that the controls were somewhat finicky sometimes. More often than not it happened that I accidentally used the wrong kind of powerup or equipped the wrong weapon in the heat of the action (or loaded them with the wrong type of ammo, or overheated my energy gun so that it started to jam...), which is never a good thing. But after a while you get the hang of that, and then it's just an awesome thrillride. Just don't expect you can just rush in there, guns blazing, like you did in Doom or Duke Nukem.

    sigh... once more I am reminded of what an awesome company Origin Systems was... and then they were devoured by that unholy moloch called EA...
    Last edited by Phantar; 02-20-2012 at 05:01 AM.
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    Raging in the Streets Moirai's Avatar
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    Wow, i just realized i have the CD-Rom version of this game sitting on a rack in my bedroom. never even played it. I should check this out.

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    Yesss, my second favorite game of all time! I still think the atmosphere of the game is second to none and the eerie Industrial meets elevator music-style background music which morphs and shifts as you play will always remain my favorite video game soundtrack ever. You needed to have a MIDI-capable sound card to really appreciate it, though. While SS2 was great and a very well thought out game, it seemed kind of clumsy in comparison to me, which I blame on the somewhat shitty Dark engine.

    If you look around you'll find various sources telling you SS1 isn't true 3D however. It's true that unlike in many other 3D games from the time it's possible to view the environment from pretty much any angle. There's still no rooms over rooms, though, and all walls are at a perfect 90 degree angle which means SS1 also uses the simplified Z axis trick to save processing power like pretty much any first person game from the time did. Plus, SS1's predecessor series, i. e. the Ultima Underworld games, also had mouse aiming. Using projectile weapons/spells in both games actually feels a lot like shooting in SS1.
    Last edited by magicalsoundshower; 02-21-2012 at 12:48 AM.

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    Yeah, the Underworld games laid down a lot of System Shock's foundation. Those are my favourite Ultima games. They're more confusing than System Shock because of the huge areas but in some ways those games allow for more options for problem solving. They were like the Deus Ex of the Wolfenstein 3D era.

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    Hero of Algol kool kitty89's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phantar View Post
    "What have you done, you impudent insect?! If I am to die now, then I will avenge myself on you. My cybernetic children will feed on your flesh, and none will ever know of your deeds, or even your name. Enjoy your victory, human, for the remainder of your short... life..."

    Yeah, SHODAN was an awesome, creepy villain! The game was great, but I had to wait until the CD-Version rolled around until I owned a PC that was technically capable of actually running the game - and even then I only could run it in the inferior VGA-graphics mode. Nevertheless, the experience was incredible, being freely able to look around, actual jumping, real puzzles, the odd, but strangely compelling cyperspace section, a nice range of enemies (those damn invisible creatures always f*cked my sh*it right up). And generally there were a couple of ways to complete a section, so in that regard, it served as a predecessor to the likes of Deus Ex and such (which isn't surprising, since Warren Spector worked on both games).
    There was better than VGA for the original game? Was there an accelerated patch/re-release for that? (or do you just mean a 640x480 SVGA mode?)

    I know the Sequel supported acceleration (and is usually considered the better game in general), but I thought the original was all software rendered. (it would have had to be at the time of its release -consumer 3D accelerators weren't available until 1995, and didn't start to get any significant support until '96)

    sigh... once more I am reminded of what an awesome company Origin Systems was... and then they were devoured by that unholy moloch called EA...
    I see this argument a lot, but it's not really consistent. You can't really predict what would have happened had they stayed on their own (ie could have gone bankrupt or gotten bought out to similar results). Origin merged with EA back in the early 90s, but still went on to produce some of their best games (including Wing Commander III and IV), though they later faded away at the end of the 90s. (again, it would be total speculation to say they'd have managed any better on their own -probably could have been better under certain circumstances, but also worse under others)

    Albeit I suppose one could argue that an even better situation could have been EA's management being more flexible to those merged companies in the long-run. (but that's still a rather vague argument anyway)
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    Quote Originally Posted by evilevoix View Post
    Dude it’s the bios that marries the 16 bit and the 8 bit that makes it 24 bit. If SNK released their double speed bios revision SNK would have had the world’s first 48 bit machine, IDK how you keep ignoring this.
    Quote Originally Posted by evilevoix View Post
    the PCE, that system has no extra silicone for music, how many resources are used to make music and it has less sprites than the MD on screen at once but a larger sprite area?

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    Quote Originally Posted by kool kitty89
    I know the Sequel ... (and is usually considered the better game in general)
    Is it? The second game would win a popularity poll because more people played it but I'm curious what the consensus is among those that actually played both. In my experience, it seems almost 50/50 for people familiar with both games.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kool kitty89 View Post
    I see this argument a lot, but it's not really consistent. You can't really predict what would have happened had they stayed on their own (ie could have gone bankrupt or gotten bought out to similar results). Origin merged with EA back in the early 90s, but still went on to produce some of their best games (including Wing Commander III and IV), though they later faded away at the end of the 90s. (again, it would be total speculation to say they'd have managed any better on their own -probably could have been better under certain circumstances, but also worse under others)

    Albeit I suppose one could argue that an even better situation could have been EA's management being more flexible to those merged companies in the long-run. (but that's still a rather vague argument anyway)
    Regarding the EA-Origin-Situation, I once read an interesting article on that topic at "The Escapist" called "The Conquest of Origin" (it was written in 2005, around the time when Origin Systems was shutting down for good). While its true that immediately after the buyout Origin was enabled to create some of their best work aside from the Ultima Series (such as Wing Commander 3, or Crusader: No Remorse), the high lasted only a few years; merciless deadlines and an atmosphere of infighting between development teams slowly wore Origin down, causing many of the creative heads to leave the ship. And according to the article, EA was more interested in cranking out sequels to successful franchises in short time than in spending a long time to get just one game down right. And after Ultima Online was an unexpected success, the team was basically forced to only work on the MMORPG and had to abandon several other projects (which eventuella led to the mess that was Ultima IX). The clash in philosophies ultimately lead to an (in my eyes untimely) end for Origin.

    It's definitely an interesting read...
    The funny thing about an oxymoron is, even if you remove the ox, there'll always be a moron. The Question Remains: Y?

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    Genesis Knight's Avatar
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    Some guy found a (very) early expiremental build of SS on a Dreamcast development machine - last year, I think. It was only one hallway. Too bad that port didn't happen.

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    Hero of Algol kool kitty89's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phantar View Post
    Regarding the EA-Origin-Situation, I once read an interesting article on that topic at "The Escapist" called "The Conquest of Origin" (it was written in 2005, around the time when Origin Systems was shutting down for good). While its true that immediately after the buyout Origin was enabled to create some of their best work aside from the Ultima Series (such as Wing Commander 3, or Crusader: No Remorse), the high lasted only a few years; merciless deadlines and an atmosphere of infighting between development teams slowly wore Origin down, causing many of the creative heads to leave the ship. And according to the article, EA was more interested in cranking out sequels to successful franchises in short time than in spending a long time to get just one game down right. And after Ultima Online was an unexpected success, the team was basically forced to only work on the MMORPG and had to abandon several other projects (which eventuella led to the mess that was Ultima IX). The clash in philosophies ultimately lead to an (in my eyes untimely) end for Origin.

    It's definitely an interesting read...
    It didn't help that one of Origin's flagship franchies was in a genre that peaked in the late 90s (sci-fi/space combat sims) and later fell far behind the FPS wave, and their other major niche (the Ultima RPGs) wasn't able to keep up with the massive competition of that period. (from JRPGs going mainstream on one end and extremely popular PC WRPGs from Sierra/Blizard and such on the other end)

    It's doubtful they'd have been able to hang on in the mainstream on their own, though (again) one could argue that different management by a similarly (financially) powerful buyer might have ended up far better. (either that, of perhaps if they'd stayed independent, but gotten massive external investment from 3rd party partners)

    It might have been really interesting if Lucas Arts had picked them up though.
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    Quote Originally Posted by evilevoix View Post
    Dude it’s the bios that marries the 16 bit and the 8 bit that makes it 24 bit. If SNK released their double speed bios revision SNK would have had the world’s first 48 bit machine, IDK how you keep ignoring this.
    Quote Originally Posted by evilevoix View Post
    the PCE, that system has no extra silicone for music, how many resources are used to make music and it has less sprites than the MD on screen at once but a larger sprite area?

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    Pirate King Phantar's Avatar
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    Oh, maybe they would've been able to keep it up if they hadn't spread their linup farther out and concentrated more on their Ultima Core series, which up to and including Ultima VIII was still selling pretty strong in the RPG sector. They just weren't as accessible as other RPGs coming out in that time (like the Black Isle-games Baldur's Gate and Fallout, or the aforementioned JRPGs), but I think given some more time and polished, they could've worked that out - I mean, the worlds of Ultima VII (PArt one AND two individually) were massive, and I think the worlds of modern RPGs haven't grown back to this size (while including enormous amounts of detail) again. Problem was that after the surprise success of Ultima Online, EA mandated the team to concentrate on the MMO-field, and most other projects (including Ultima IX at an earlier stage) were dropped. The Ultima IX that was eventually released was a hastily cobbled together, unpolished and unfinished mess that ruined the company's reputation.
    The funny thing about an oxymoron is, even if you remove the ox, there'll always be a moron. The Question Remains: Y?

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    Hero of Algol kool kitty89's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phantar View Post
    Oh, maybe they would've been able to keep it up if they hadn't spread their linup farther out and concentrated more on their Ultima Core series, which up to and including Ultima VIII was still selling pretty strong in the RPG sector. They just weren't as accessible as other RPGs coming out in that time (like the Black Isle-games Baldur's Gate and Fallout, or the aforementioned JRPGs), but I think given some more time and polished, they could've worked that out - I mean, the worlds of Ultima VII (PArt one AND two individually) were massive, and I think the worlds of modern RPGs haven't grown back to this size (while including enormous amounts of detail) again. Problem was that after the surprise success of Ultima Online, EA mandated the team to concentrate on the MMO-field, and most other projects (including Ultima IX at an earlier stage) were dropped. The Ultima IX that was eventually released was a hastily cobbled together, unpolished and unfinished mess that ruined the company's reputation.
    Hmm, so the forced shift in focus on MMO stuff may have been the more specific problem then the overall games/genres being developed, or the aggressive deadlines. (though, undoubtedly, the shift in atmosphere contributed to some of the talent shifting/leaving -though Wing Commander V ended up pretty good without Chris Roberts . . . and later on he also managed to write/direct that -relatively- awful WC Film )

    They probably jumped the gun on the MMO stuff . . . it might have made more sense to merge that with Ultima IX for a comprehensive and polished single-player campaign with open online play as well.

    Though on the note of MMOs, it would have been interesting to see a Wing Commander MMO game, perhaps in the spirit of the Privateer series. (albeit still somewhat of a niche genre, though one that has actually gotten a few installments in recent years -mostly free online stuff though)



    But back on the topic of System Shock, yeah, that's definitely one I need to check out for myself. Again, I'd gotten the impression that the Sequel was supposed to be better, but maybe you're right about it just being more popular. (too bad neither seem to go very cheap online . . . )
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    Quote Originally Posted by evilevoix View Post
    Dude it’s the bios that marries the 16 bit and the 8 bit that makes it 24 bit. If SNK released their double speed bios revision SNK would have had the world’s first 48 bit machine, IDK how you keep ignoring this.
    Quote Originally Posted by evilevoix View Post
    the PCE, that system has no extra silicone for music, how many resources are used to make music and it has less sprites than the MD on screen at once but a larger sprite area?

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    End of line.. Shining Hero gamevet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kool kitty89 View Post



    But back on the topic of System Shock, yeah, that's definitely one I need to check out for myself. Again, I'd gotten the impression that the Sequel was supposed to be better, but maybe you're right about it just being more popular. (too bad neither seem to go very cheap online . . . )

    According to this site, you can legally download it for free. It is abandonware afterall.
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    Hero of Algol kool kitty89's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gamevet View Post
    According to this site, you can legally download it for free. It is abandonware afterall.
    Well, for the most part "abandonware" is only defacto-legal since the copyright is still held by someone and the software has never been made officially free (just that the current owner is obscure/unknown and doesn't care about unlicensed distribution -or hasn't formally voiced any complaints) . . . not that I really have a problem with dowloading software as such, but I like to get a real copy when I can. In this case, yeah, I'll probably end up downloading it though.
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    Quote Originally Posted by evilevoix View Post
    Dude it’s the bios that marries the 16 bit and the 8 bit that makes it 24 bit. If SNK released their double speed bios revision SNK would have had the world’s first 48 bit machine, IDK how you keep ignoring this.
    Quote Originally Posted by evilevoix View Post
    the PCE, that system has no extra silicone for music, how many resources are used to make music and it has less sprites than the MD on screen at once but a larger sprite area?

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    _-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_ Master of Shinobi NeoZeedeater's Avatar
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    System Shock 2 is finally seeing its digital re-release on GOG.
    http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2013...-comes-to-gog/

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