Gun Lord (Dreamcast/ NeoGeo) Launch Trailer

[retrospiel]

HOLY SHIT! I think the graphics are real 2d pixel art instead of ngdevteam's usual DKC / Pulstar style prerendered 3d!

Plus the bosses look like a giant leap forward from their previous games. Seems they're REALLY well animated. These guys are getting better and better at this!

[Kamahl]

I wish I had a Neo Geo... And that I could just burn 500€ without regret.

[Guntz]

A Neo Geo is the easy part, 300 ish Euros for the cheaper MVS version, is not...

Same boat here, a Neo Geo copy would be sweet, but like back in the good old days, these games just don't come cheap. I've got enough games to play anyway, I don't really need this one.

[SEGA.GENESIS1989]

I've been on the fence with this title. Only because I am more interested in the shmup "Sturmwind" which is being released for the SEGA Dreamcast. Unfortunately the project has been plagued with delays.

[Zoltor]

A Neo Geo is the easy part, 300 ish Euros for the cheaper MVS version, is not...

Same boat here, a Neo Geo copy would be sweet, but like back in the good old days, these games just don't come cheap. I've got enough games to play anyway, I don't really need this one.

The differance is though, back in the day there were real reasons for the high price, where now the physical item is easy/super cheap to make(as for the game, it shouldn't matter as to what version).

What they are doing with their pricing, is really screwed up(It's like making a DOS based computer for classic gaming, and charging 3x more then what a decent gaming grade PC costs now adays even though the parts cost next to nothing now, It's worng).

I would love to support these guys, but their pricing is way overboard(especilly the NEO-Geo, and the DC's special editon).

I spend a ton of money on classic gaming, so It's not like I'm stingy with my money either, but these prices are really that high(hell most of the most valuable/desireable classic games don't cost as much as they're asking, and It's not even OoP yet).

[TrekkiesUnite118]

The cost to have a company make those large AES and MVS carts may not be as cheap as you think.

[Kamahl]

The differance is though, back in the day there were real reasons for the high price, where now the physical item is easy/super cheap to make(as for the game, it shouldn't matter as to what version)

Actually no, it's not. Pier Solar was really expensive to produce as a 64 meg game. This is a 650 meg game. It's not just about the storage space but all the interface required on the cart to access it (the cart even has a freaking USB interface for crying out loud). Not to mention the small production runs make everything a lot more expensive since without mass production they can't make up the cost in volume.

[Zoltor]

Actually no, it's not. Pier Solar was really expensive to produce as a 64 meg game. This is a 650 meg game. It's not just about the storage space but all the interface required on the cart to access it (the cart even has a freaking USB interface for crying out loud). Not to mention the small production runs make everything a lot more expensive since without mass production they can't make up the cost in volume.

I want to see some evidence that would imply it cost 150 or more to make a NEO-GEO game(the physical product), because that's the only thing that would warrant such a price(their pricing is that higjh). I find it hard to believe such would cost much more then 50$, nevermind the 150+ you are implying.

[TrekkiesUnite118]

Think about the mappers, rom chips, the board, the plastic shell (This probably costs a bit to them to make one that's authentic looking), Then there's the professionally printed labels and case inserts, and instruction manuals. It starts to add up quickly. The mappers probably aren't cheap, as they may be custom made. Getting ROM chips that are not only the right size but also able to be read by the Neo Geo probably isn't cheap either. Then making the board is probably expensive too since the can't be made small as it needs to be able to work in a real Neo Geo cart slot. I could see the end product being in the $150-$200+ range for cost. As Kamahl Said Pier Solar wasn't cheap (if I remember correctly the original preorder of $35 was close to what it cost to make one copy) and it was only 64 Meg. These are more than 10x that size.

[Kamahl]

They likely cost $150-200 to produce at least. Remember that they also need to pay the programmers and artists while selling few units, so the price needs to be really high.
Pier solar was sold at 35$ (not enough btw, it wasn't enough to cover their costs before they sold the reprints), with a much larger production run and no payment for the programmers or artists.

[Guntz]

Going by PCB scans of NG: Dev.Team's games (Fast Striker and Last Hope MVS), they definitely use some weird custom mapping design to use higher capacity flash chips. That alone was probably not cheap in any sense of the word. None of their games use any SNK parts to reduce costs.

Elaborating on what Trekkies and Kamahl said, one has to realize just how big Neo Geo cartridges are... Here's King of Fighters '96 AES compared to a Genesis cartridge...




Here's what the Pier Solar PCB looks like:



And here's what an NG: Dev.Team set of PCBs looks like:




As everyone here can plainly see, not only going by how massively big Neo Geo cart PCBs are, you can also see all the components on those NG: Dev.Team boards.

So ya guys know what all this means?

... It means Zoltor has once again proved to us that he's a MORON. To say that a Neo Geo cartridge is cheap to manufacture is just an exercise in ignorance, stupidity and ridiculous idiocy.

[TrekkiesUnite118]

I've been waiting for him to mention something about the Dreamcast version being inferior due to the cache system.

[Zoltor]

I'm not comaring a NEO-GEO game to Pier Solar(nor do I recall ever even mentioning Pier Solar in this thread), plus I'm well aware of the crazy size of NEO-GEO carts.

Do I expect it to be priced as low as a gen/CD based game, hell no, but these prices are hardly respectible(300 bucks, do you have any idea what you can buy for 300 bucks. Perhaps the EU area is different, but in the US, people screw around with modern chips/computer based technology for chunk change, so I find it super hard to believe the chip its self cost all that much, not to mention memory in general is very cheap these days), the casing is what Isn't cheap here, but still, the price point is very high.


Why are you even trying to deffend them, when It's clear their prices are sky high(Points at the DC version if you want to deny the fact the NEO-GEO cart is expensive as hell), how do you eplain 140ish for a few CDs(don't CDs cost like a penny lol+ cover art), but by all means, if you think 300/140 is fair, buy them, I'm not stoping you.

As for me, as much as I would "really" love to play this game(It's been ages since a 2D platformer using such map designs has been made, not to mention the overall gameplay looks amazing, although "possibly" a tad on the easy side, and even then such games were almost unheard of, atleast outside of Japan), I'm gonna pass.

[Genesis Knight]

how do you eplain 140ish for a few CDs(don't CDs cost like a penny lol+ cover art), but by all means, if you think 300/140 is fair, buy them, I'm not stoping you.

I'm not defending their prices for the AES/MVS carts because I don't know anything about manufacturing costs for that sort of thing, but regarding the Dreamcast pricing, they're selling the regular edition of Gunlord DC for ~40 USD. Even if the physical packaging is as low as a few dollars per copy, you have to price the product to 1) defray development costs across the consumers and 2) get some profit per unit.

I agree with you and Joe when you say the stuff is expensive, but you have to see the economics (and business angle) of why the prices are what they are. They can't give this stuff away at production costs like you seem to be suggesting, and even beyond that they're going to price their products as high as the market will support. They're a business, that's how it works. Since they continue releasing games, it seems that their pricing is accurate to supply/demand.

I think it's unrealistic to expect them to price the Dreamcast version at less that ~30-40 USD.

The Neo Geo version certainly 'looks' expensive to produce, but I think we're all sufficiently familiar with the Neo scene to guess that they could probably price it at almost any point and still sell through their stock.

[Guntz]

I'm not comaring a NEO-GEO game to Pier Solar(nor do I recall ever even mentioning Pier Solar in this thread), plus I'm well aware of the crazy size of NEO-GEO carts.

I'm using Pier Solar to put the NEO•GEO cartridge in perspective... And if you knew how big NG carts were, then logically you wouldn't have said they should be cheap to produce...

Do I expect it to be priced as low as a gen/CD based game, hell no, but these prices are hardly respectible(300 bucks, do you have any idea what you can buy for 300 bucks. Perhaps the EU area is different, but in the US, people screw around with modern chips/computer based technology for chunk change, so I find it super hard to believe the chip its self cost all that much, not to mention memory in general is very cheap these days), the casing is what Isn't cheap here, but still, the price point is very high.

Again, you prove how dumb you are... Modern electronic components are cheap because they are subsidized through volume. NG: Dev.Team doesn't have the money, nor a market, to produce thousands of copies to bring the cost down, let alone hundreds of thousands.

And again, as was pointed out before, custom PCB and IC design is very expensive, even for small items like that Pier Solar cartridge. NG: Dev.Team's cartridges are multiple times bigger than a Genesis cart, which logically means it cost multiple times more to design and to produce...

Also, they deal in Euros, not US Dollars.

Why are you even trying to deffend them, when It's clear their prices are sky high(Points at the DC version if you want to deny the fact the NEO-GEO cart is expensive as hell), how do you eplain 140ish for a few CDs(don't CDs cost like a penny lol+ cover art), but by all means, if you think 300/140 is fair, buy them, I'm not stoping you.

Well lets see, those discs are pressed not burned with cheap CD-Rs. Despite what you think, CD pressing in low quantities is quite expensive. It's only cheap once you print a few million. Then you have to factor in offset printed paper materials (also quite expensive) and the cases AND the employees of NG: Dev.Team needs to be paid as well...

Why don't you contact NG: Dev.Team and complain about their high prices? Maybe they'll give you a breakdown of the cost and markup if you type legibly enough...