Post a pic of your Sega setup

[evildragon]

I never said the Genesis or Mega Drive would be doing the squishing. Something that is 32 pixels tall (for example) will appear less tall on an image with 224 pixels than with 240 pixels if the image is being squished. And if the image is not being squished, I see absolutely zero benefit to the extra 16 lines of resolution. I think with PAL you always lose since most Genesis/Mega Drive videogames are designed in Japan with NTSC in mind.

but remember, the 320x240 resolution is a 4:3 resolution, the NTSC modes are NOT..

You know you have 320 pixels wide. So to get a 4:3 image, you need to know how many pixels high, you need. To do that, we will do 3 divided by 4, which is ".75"..

So now you multiply that by 320, which you get 240..

If you notice on an emulator, where a square pixel is a square pixel, when sonic is jumping in a ball, it's perfectly a sphere, not fat, nor tall.. Now, since NTSC and PAL isn't being stretched on an emulator, you are getting a 4:3 image no matter what.. but, if you show 320x240 on a real TV, guess what, Sonic would be a real sphere.. where on NTSC, he would be slightly taller (very minimal)..

This is something I was always good at, resolutions, shapes, ratios, and mathematics between them...

[Joe Redifer]

Dude, I know all about aspect ratios and resolutions since I work in the video field. But apparently you do not know about overscan. Part of those 320 lines are off of the edge as well and are not visible on a normal TV. The Genesis retains it's 4:3 shape by letterboxing, no squishing (or stretching as would be the case) is going on. How they appear on emulators means absolutely nothing to me. It depends on how they appear on a real TV. A square pixel will ALWAYS be a square pixel on an emulator.

[evildragon]

Dude, I know all about aspect ratios and resolutions since I work in the video field. But apparently you do not know about overscan. Part of those 320 lines are off of the edge as well and are not visible on a normal TV. The Genesis retains it's 4:3 shape by letterboxing, no squishing (or stretching as would be the case) is going on. How they appear on emulators means absolutely nothing to me. It depends on how they appear on a real TV. A square pixel will ALWAYS be a square pixel on an emulator.

i know about over-scanning, AND under-scanning.. (i know that even a modern PC monitor has over-scanning, though black)...

but some TVs don't get the affect, as it drops off the over-scanning.. please don't make me plug up my Commodore 64 monitor to show you NTSC and PAL screens, and how the NTSC image is wider, where the PAL image is perfect...

wait a minute: You see ALL 320 pixels wide.. non of them are cut off.. the image sent out by the NTSC Genesis (by using a special device), is 352x250 (including overscan)

this is a 720x480 capture of my NTSC Genesis: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v3...egacapture.jpg

that image is no way 4:3 (yet sonic is a spere)

[Joe Redifer]

The Commodore 64 monitor is not a real TV. It is a computer monitor and would therefore less have much less overscanning. What I am saying is that purple area in the NTSC Knuckles pic above... that's actually part of the signal the Genesis sends out, thus making it 240 lines tall, although only 224 of them can have game detail. But those extra 16 lines are off of the screen anyway, just like some of the 320 lines are off the screen. PAL has overscan as well, so if you play on a PAL TV that extra game detail would be off of the screen, or at least most of it. And that negates the so-called "extra resolution" you get will proper PAL games.

So the moral of the story is: Both NTSC Genesis and PAL Mega Drive output a signal that is 240 pixels tall and 320 pixels wide... but the Genesis masks off those extra 16 lines.

[evildragon]

The Commodore 64 monitor is not a real TV. It is a computer monitor and would therefore less have much less overscanning. What I am saying is that purple area in the NTSC Knuckles pic above... that's actually part of the signal the Genesis sends out, thus making it 240 lines tall, although only 224 of them can have game detail. But those extra 16 lines are off of the screen anyway, just like some of the 320 lines are off the screen. PAL has overscan as well, so if you play on a PAL TV that extra game detail would be off of the screen, or at least most of it. And that negates the so-called "extra resolution" you get will proper PAL games.

So the moral of the story is: Both NTSC Genesis and PAL Mega Drive output a signal that is 240 pixels tall and 320 pixels wide... but the Genesis masks off those extra 16 lines.

um, PAL Genesis outputs 288 pixels high... you should know that PAL has more vertical lines than NTSC, if you are from video electronics..

[Joe Redifer]

PAL has the same amount of horizontal pixels as NTSC. So something must be screwed up somewhere in the display (comparing real NTSC TVs to real PAL TVs, of course). Granted PAL has much better color. So therefore showing me pictures via emulators and C64 monitors does nothing to change my opinion that the "extra resolution" in PAL games doesn't really matter, which is what this whole argument is all about. And if all 240 lines are visible on a PAL TV, then yes, the sprites will appear smaller.

PS - You don't need to quote me when I am the post directly above yours.

[evildragon]

see, this is the PAL version of Sonic CD.. you can tell it's PAL because my Genesis is giving the black and white PAL output..

I told my TV to turn off overscan for this shot.. I see plenty of overscan on the PAL image to me... so i see 240 pixels high, and then some..

http://blackevilweredragon.spymac.com/overscanpal.jpg

i know PAL and NTSC has the same horizantle pixels, but they don't have the same vertical pixels.. PAL has more lines than NTSC.. which is what im trying to get at..

you should know the broadcasting standards are as follows (and are used when making DVDs especially)
NTSC: 720x480
PAL: 720x576

[Joe Redifer]

That image means nothing to me. Get a real PAL TV and a real NTSC TV and set them side by side.

[evildragon]

That image means nothing to me. Get a real PAL TV and a real NTSC TV and set them side by side.

this is a real NTSC and PAL TV.. It's a multi TV..

now your just being ignorant.. PAL has more lines than NTSC, otherwise they wouldn't call NTSC 480i, and PAL 576i.. So therefor the image STILL would fit...

[Joe Redifer]

I never said that PAL didn't have more lines. I just said that it has the same amount of horizontal pixels (720).

[evildragon]

ok.. how about we just call it a draw? two stressed out techs can get nasty

anyways, my blood pressure is a tad too high right now, and i seriously need to just call it quits..

[Joe Redifer]

Fair enough.

[evildragon]

too keep the spirit of this thread, here's my full sega setup picture..

http://blackevilweredragon.spymac.com/segasetup.jpg

and yes, that is a laptop on my floor..

[Joe Redifer]

Time for some cleaning! I was about to take some pics anyway, but I had to come back to the site and look at Zebbe's pic first because I want to take a pic of Cotton as well. But these will only be close-up pics for right now. The whole room will be revealed at a different time (like when I pick crap up off of the floor and table, etc)

[Joe Redifer]

OK here is my awesome Genesis/Sega CD/32X (everything a launch unit).
My 32x came with a standard Genesis-shaped cartridge slot.


Sonic 2 on my TV. Component video (same as RGB, only different)!
Ooops I mean Sonic CD.


This is to show Zebbe that not everyone in the US is deprived of RGB.