Saturn Question

[tz101]

All this talk about model I, model II, 3D and analog is confusing. I have three different digital pads and the Nights controller, but pictures would help me to understand the lingo being used.

[StarMist]

Model 1 = the large US controller.
Model 2 = the slim US controller equivalent to the JP model.
3D and Analogue = the Nights controller, which was also packed with Mystic Carpet in Japan. -- Another interesting thing about the 3D controller is that on Deep Fear switching to analogue mode moves one's character normally (ie the direction one presses) rather than the standard RE style movement he has otherwise.

[Wesker]

Another interesting thing about the 3D controller is that on Deep Fear switching to analogue mode moves one's character normally (ie the direction one presses) rather than the standard RE style movement he has otherwise.

And for some weird design reason, there are also screen transitions when moving into different camera angles/backgrounds that way.

[dbtmellis]

Model I (US) Controller http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Se...oller-Mod1.jpg

Model II (US) Controller http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Se...r_-_Type_2.png

Analog Type Controller http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Se...Controller.jpg


3D and Analog controllers go hand in hand. Since the game is in a 3D environment, the analog stick gives 360 Degrees of movement. Most of the sticks when released, return back to the center. I do know that the N-64 warns you in some games to not touch the stick during power on, because this will cause the "Center" of the stick to be thrown off, and not work properly. Im not sure about other systems.

2D Controllers are mainly just with the D-Pad (up, down, left, right).

[Bones Justice]

I prefer the model 2 for most games, especially fighting games. The d-pad is made with soft edges so that your thumb doesn't get sore when you do circular motions that most fighters require.

For driving games, I really like the 3D pad. The analog controller is still the best one I've ever used. I like to hold it straight down then edge it left or right for turning. The analog triggers are great for variable gas and brakes.

The Saturn steering wheel is also great. So is the Stunner light gun.

I've never used the Twin Sticks. I never played Virtual On in the arcades so the model 2 pad is what seems "natural" for me. Unfortunately, the four-button layout of the Dreamcast controller makes it impossible to use the same control scheme for DC Virtual On.

[TrekkiesUnite118]

I prefer the model 2 for most games, especially fighting games. The d-pad is made with soft edges so that your thumb doesn't get sore when you do circular motions that most fighters require.

For driving games, I really like the 3D pad. The analog controller is still the best one I've ever used. I like to hold it straight down then edge it left or right for turning. The analog triggers are great for variable gas and brakes.

The Saturn steering wheel is also great. So is the Stunner light gun.

I've never used the Twin Sticks. I never played Virtual On in the arcades so the model 2 pad is what seems "natural" for me. Unfortunately, the four-button layout of the Dreamcast controller makes it impossible to use the same control scheme for DC Virtual On.

My first experience with Virtual On was on the Saturn too so I had some decent experience with the Model 2 Controller for it as well. However the Twin Stick control scheme really feels natural for the game with how it's done. What is comical though is that the Saturn reads them as any standard controller. It's up to the individual games to program how to support them. So you can actually play any game with the Twin Stick. Though some are more awkward than others.

[sheath]

I've played Virtual On for Saturn and Dreamcast with and without the Twin Sticks, and on XBLA with the Dual Analog set for Twin Sticks. I'm a little bit better with the standard game pad. Jump/Cancel works faster with buttons than it does with the Twin Sticks. There's only one super move I can't do without the Twin Sticks, Viper/Cypher's transforming attack, I can't steer it without the Twin Sticks. Last time I played the XBLA game I couldn't remember how to initiate the move anyway though. Also, whenever I do use it even the AI deftly avoids me and then I have to wait for all of my bars to come back and avoid attacks at the same time.

For such a superficial move, I honestly do not know where people are coming from when they say the only way to play Virtual On is with the Twin Sticks. For the Saturn and Dreamcast games this came as a recommendation to NOT play the games at all, which is horrible and causes many kittens to die.

[TrekkiesUnite118]

I can move more easily with the Twin Stick than I can with a standard pad. It's not about what attacks you can pull off that make the Twin stick better, it's about how much more easily you can move your robot that makes it better. It just feels better.

[maxi]

The Saturn version is fine to play with the normal pad. The DC version is fine only for people with two thumbs on the left hand.

[sheath]

I can move fine by sticking to the dash, dash cancel, jump, jump cancel, and jump dash and jump dash cancel. I'm actually a lot clumsy with the Twin Stick controls when I try to use them to keep my opponent in view. It's much easier to just dash and jump cancel even with the Twin Sticks. But my point is not that the controller is better, just that it is a damn crying shame that more people don't play the game just because they don't have Twin Sticks. It is totally playable with control pads with rare exceptions of a move here and there, and the controls for turning the camera left and right.

[TrekkiesUnite118]

Sure it's playable with the Controller, but it plays better with the Twin Stick. I honestly can't go back to the Controller now that I've used the Twin Stick, it just makes the game more enjoyable.

[sheath]

I insisted on playing the game with Twin Stick controls over XBLA the other week and my buddy, who's only played the game a few times, stuck to the more Dreamcast like default controls. I kept struggling with the controls while he was nailing me fairly readily. Granted I was using Cypher and he was using Temjin and Raiden, so I was at an armor disadvantage and needed to be able to move better. I almost wanted to change the controls to the Dreamcast style after a while. The problem was that I hadn't played the game in too long and couldn't remember the way I had been playing with the Twin Sticks, but could remember the gamepad controls.

[SpaceFlea]

Yeah, the twin sticks require practice. I remember the first time I plugged 'em in; I got my ass handed to me even though I was relatively decent with the standard controller. It was rather depressing. Talk about abruptly falling off a high. But once you practice with them, they are much better.

[sheath]

I forgot I still had my old review of Virtual On Oratario Tangram on Dreamcast archived. I'm still coming from this same angle, everybody and their children should play Virtual On.

Alright folks, no more excuses, there is nothing wrong with the controls of this game, I’ve proved it. My friend, who has never owned or had access to a videogame system in her life, can beat me at VOOT. She can dash in any direction, jump/cancel just fine, jump dash, and do any of the regular or super attacks on command. All she just needs is more experience to develop a more solid strategy/battle style.

I taught her how to play this morning, in less than 30 mins. This is what I did, and you can do it too, either for yourself, or for someone you know that thinks it's a hard game. Turn on the in fight option in the option screen, so all you can do fight close in, and set both controllers to setting A, unless you think some other setting is easier to teach, I don't.

Now, go into verses mode, and stick with the same two characters, just pick the ones you like. Start with dashes, explain how both the X and B button are dash, and all you have to do is press one of them and the direction on the digital pad (instruct them to stay completely away from the analogue stick). Then explain that you press the dash button again to cancel the dash, and that you can change directions of the dash by pressing a different angle and dash again immediately.

This is key, instruct them to not press dash to cancel a dash if they are not going to change direction again, instead, instruct them to jump/cancel in the middle of the dash to cancel the dash. That's Y then A immediately after, show them how to do it if they can't figure it out, and make sure that they barely leave the ground for this exercise, you don't want to be floating in the air to jump/cancel, at least not until you get better at the game. Practice this until you both have it down, it is really simple, and completely eliminates the confusion of trying to find the opponent, making the game much easier.

Now, practice close in fighting. Start with guard, get in close enough to get the double lock on, have your friend guard and attack them once. Then explain that the right trigger is the right arm, and the left trigger is the left, and that both of them are the center/special weapon. Explain that when guarding, right after being hit, if you press one or both of the triggers you will do an immediate, almost unblockable counter attack. Practice this until you both get good at it.

Next, you should both be fairly comfortable with close range attacks now, so try dashing around and tagging each other. If you're better than your friend, go easy on him/her until they get better with it. Also, this would be a good point to explain that if you hold X or B and then press L, R, or L&R you will get a myriad of different results. Learn what each does in close combat before moving on.

When the matches start feeling a little dry without full weapons, it's time to turn off in fighting and go into full combat. Start all over again, explaining jump attacks, dash attacks, and the dash supers. Practice them, and you'll find that you are both better players, and that the matches will be very intense, even while you're learning the long range weapons. Learning close range combat first is instrumental to you being an effective VOOT player.

My friend took as long or longer to learn how to play Ecco the Dolphin, as she took to become a good enough VOOT player to create very exciting matches with me. She's almost better at close range attacking than I am, and she does a jump/cancel like a pro. Pretty much all that she has left to learn is coordination in jump/dashing and weaving to dodge attacks and she'll have me beat, because I can't do that professionally either.

[TrekkiesUnite118]

Wait, you were using the Twin Stick Control Scheme with a standard controller? You realize that makes the controls make no sense right? The Twin Sticks are digital controllers that are identified as standard controllers by the system. The games that use them internally change what action they map to which button to make them work.

Here's what the Saturn Twin Stick actually maps to:
Left Stick:
Up = Up
Down = Down
Left = Left
Right = Right
Button = L
Trigger = R

Right Stick:
Up = Y
Down = B
Left = X
Right = Z
Button = C
Trigger = A