Saturn Question

[sheath]

I was using Twin Stick controls on XBLA using a standard 360 controller.

[TrekkiesUnite118]

Well I've yet to try the XBLA version but if it's like the Saturn version that there explains why your controls were bad. Setting Twin Stick mode makes it so buttons map to the motions of the other stick.

For example Jump with the Twin Sticks is Left Stick Left, and Right Stick Right. If you set to Twin Stick Mode it most likely maps to Left Stick Left and X button or something odd like that. If you don't have a Twin Stick for the system, don't set the controls to Twin Stick. The controls wont make any sense with a standard controller.

[synbiosfan]

I personally hate the Model I style, same reason i don't like the Model I style on the Genesis. They feel way too big and clunky. The Model II styles are smaller, and seem to fit in my hands better.

The people that prefer the Model 1 (US & Europe) usually do so because they bought a Model 1 Saturn or have large hands. The Model 2 does have a better d-pad but it's uncomfortable to use...if you have large hands. It wasn't until they were clearancing out the Saturns at Toys-R-Us that I even knew there was a Model 2 system. I did grab a Model 2 controller then, I didn't care for it but it turned out to be perfect for my nieces and nephew.

The analog controller is my most used one.

[sheath]

Well I've yet to try the XBLA version but if it's like the Saturn version that there explains why your controls were bad. Setting Twin Stick mode makes it so buttons map to the motions of the other stick.

For example Jump with the Twin Sticks is Left Stick Left, and Right Stick Right. If you set to Twin Stick Mode it most likely maps to Left Stick Left and X button or something odd like that. If you don't have a Twin Stick for the system, don't set the controls to Twin Stick. The controls wont make any sense with a standard controller.

The XBLA game in Twin stick mode controls exactly like the Saturn and Dreamcast games with Twin Sticks. The Right and Left Shoulder Buttons become the R/L Dash and the Triggers become the Left/Right/Center weapon. The only thing I kind of wonder about is if the analog sticks and triggers are making the game slightly less responsive than the digital Twin Sticks.

[TrekkiesUnite118]

Either that or your thumbs aren't as fast as your hands.

[A Black Falcon]

Poor Saturn Mission Stick joystick, I don't think it's gotten even one mention in this thread...

It's a fantastic controller, really! And it's compatible with far more than the tiny number of games with actual Mission Stick logos on their US/EU boxes, too. First, it works with most of the flight or mech games. MechWarrior 2, Thunder Strike 2, Black Fire, Panzer Dragoon, Panzer Dragoon II: Zwei, and others all have analog controls designed for the Mission Stick. Some flying games don't have support -- it's sadly absent from Solar Eclipse for instance -- and Ghen War technically has support but does not have analog (it's digital, essentially), but many others do. And once you've used the Mission Stick with these games, you'll never want to go back to a gamepad...

It works in analog mode with quite a few racing games, also, acting as a wheel (the Arcade Racer wheel) most of the time; some games can tell the difference and only work in analog with a wheel (Virtua Racing and Hang-On GP are the most prominent of these), but many other racing games work just fine in analog with the Mission Stick. A few, like Cyber Speedway, even are specifically designed for the Mission Stick. You can tell because the game supports the L and R buttons with the Mission Stick, and up and down move the ship up and down (Wipeout-style), too; the Arcade Racer of course does not have L or R buttons. Those two paddles on the sides of the wheel are in fact up and down on the d-pad. The Mission Stick, however, has all the buttons, plus that stick with duplicate A-C buttons and a throttle wheel. On the note of the throttle wheel, only a very few of the games designed for the Mission Stick support it, but a few do, like MechWarrior 2 and at least one of those two helicopter sims, maybe both.

Oh, another random game with Mission Stick only analog support is Midway's Greatest Arcade Hits, the Atari Collection. Super Breakout, Centipede, and Missile Command are analog only with the joystick (the other three are digital either way, presumably because they were in the arcades). Why the game doesn't have 3D Controller support even though it released in mid '97 I have no idea, but it doesn't. Breakout's kind of odd here in analog, but Missile Command and Centipede are fantastic, far better than with a dpad.

And last, the Mission Stick can act like a d-pad, and works in almost any Saturn game (Daytona USA CE is the only game I own that it won't work with.). It's not like the 3D Controller where the analog stick only works in certain games, this stick has a digital mode that it defaults to unless games tell it to be analog, I assume.

Of course the 3D Controller is the best overall Saturn controller, and it's the one I use most of the time. I have some model 2 controllers, but use the 3D Controller for everything that I don't use the wheel or joystick for. The 3D Controller's just better, in my opinion.

... On that note, my favorite Sega gamepad is the Genesis 6-button controller, not the model 2 Saturn pad. The Saturn 3D controller would be second on my list of Sega pads.

But anyway, yeah, the Mission Stick's pretty cool. I really like having one.

[j_factor]

I wish Arcade's Greatest Hits (Williams) supported a dual stick setup for Robotron. It supports neither the Virtual On Twin Stick nor a double Mission Stick.

[A Black Falcon]

That would be pretty awesome, yeah.

It is weird how they actually designed the Mission Stick for a double-stick layout, but then didn't mention it anywhere, and ended up only programming support into one solitary game, PD II: Zwei... yeah, it requires a high financial commitment -- I mean, you need to buy two Mission Sticks, to get a second stick part to plug into that base unit -- but still. I'd think SOMETHING else would have supported it, but I don't know of anything.

[TrekkiesUnite118]

I need to eventually get a Mission Stick for PD II:Zwei. The game plays somewhat better with the Analog stick but still not as well as I'd like it to. I've been tempted to try it with the mouse that came with Sakura Wars though. I hear that makes the game pathetically easy.

[TheSonicRetard]

I have a mission stick, but outside of Afterburner and Space harrier, I never use it.

I use my 3D Pad for games like Panzer Dragoon Zwei. It's analog with the 3D pad (because it acts like a mission stick) but it feels more comfortable for that style of game.

[synbiosfan]

I wish Arcade's Greatest Hits (Williams) supported a dual stick setup for Robotron.

Crap, I hadn't thought of that...that would've been awesome!

[tz101]

Atari 5200 has a controller coupler that lets you play Robotron 2084 and a nice game called Space Dungeon with dual sticks. The closest to the arcade experience you can get for either of those games on a home console.

[A Black Falcon]

I have a mission stick, but outside of Afterburner and Space harrier, I never use it.

I use my 3D Pad for games like Panzer Dragoon Zwei. It's analog with the 3D pad (because it acts like a mission stick) but it feels more comfortable for that style of game.

You've never noticed that with the 3D Controller you can't get into the corners of the screen, really? Because of the different shapes of the gates (circular for the 3D controller, square for the Mission Stick), and because the game's designed for the Mission Stick and not the 3D Controller, when you play either PD game with the 3D Controller, you can't get the stick into the corners of the screen. This makes both games more difficult, as there are things you want to shoot at but can't...

Also, something like that kind of game certainly feels better with a joystick than with a gamepad, I think.

[TheSonicRetard]

You've never noticed that with the 3D Controller you can't get into the corners of the screen, really? Because of the different shapes of the gates (circular for the 3D controller, square for the Mission Stick), and because the game's designed for the Mission Stick and not the 3D Controller, when you play either PD game with the 3D Controller, you can't get the stick into the corners of the screen. This makes both games more difficult, as there are things you want to shoot at but can't...

Also, something like that kind of game certainly feels better with a joystick than with a gamepad, I think.

Very few targets hover at the corner of the screen in panzer dragoon zwei.

EDIT: And really, the problem you describe only happens in Panzer Dragoon, not Zwei. The reason it happens in Panzer Dragoon is because the cross-hair is self-centering when in mission stick mode, so it moves back to the center of your dragon's area. In Zwei, it's not self-centering, it doesn't return to position, and you are merely controlling the speed and direction by which you push the cross-hair. So that problem doesn't manifest.

[A Black Falcon]

Very few targets hover at the corner of the screen in panzer dragoon zwei.

EDIT: And really, the problem you describe only happens in Panzer Dragoon, not Zwei. The reason it happens in Panzer Dragoon is because the cross-hair is self-centering when in mission stick mode, so it moves back to the center of your dragon's area. In Zwei, it's not self-centering, it doesn't return to position, and you are merely controlling the speed and direction by which you push the cross-hair. So that problem doesn't manifest.

Ah, guess I was forgetting that. Still, I'd still say it's the far better way to control the game.

On a related note, I actually like playing Daytona USA (first version) best with the Mission Stick. You get much better analog control than you do with the 3D Controller, but a bit less than the wheel... it's a perfect medium.