Any other Master System fans?

[A Black Falcon]

Sonic 2 doesn't have special stages.

It doesn't? I'd forgotten that. Even worse then! The other games have pretty lame special stages, which are just normal sidescrolling areas where you go around and get coins (and note: it's basically the same in Ristar GG's special stages), but at least something's there...

[TheSonicRetard]

It doesn't? I'd forgotten that. Even worse then! The other games have pretty lame special stages, which are just normal sidescrolling areas where you go around and get coins (and note: it's basically the same in Ristar GG's special stages), but at least something's there...

The special stages in Sonic 1 are made out of the left over bits from what was originally Spring Yard Zone (or rather, Sparkling Zone as it was at the time).

You do realize this doesn't really help your case, right? Personally, I don't value your opinion on the SMS, because it's pretty obvious that you're not too familiar with it (despite being able to list a bunch of games you've played).

[A Black Falcon]

The special stages in Sonic 1 are made out of the left over bits from what was originally Spring Yard Zone (or rather, Sparkling Zone as it was at the time).

You do realize this doesn't really help your case, right? Personally, I don't value your opinion on the SMS, because it's pretty obvious that you're not too familiar with it (despite being able to list a bunch of games you've played).

So you only value opinions on the SMS that agree with yours or something? I mean, I have an SMS and a decent number of games. I've played all of those games at least some, and a few more in emulation too. I think that's more than enough to have an opinion on the system. So the SMS and GG are two of my least favorite consoles, of the ones I own... that is true. It doesn't mean that it's because I haven't played them enough, I don't think. And also, that doesn't mean I dislike them; I don't dislike any of the systems I have, I just like some more than others. But they're all good in some way or another. And yes, there are some pretty good games on the SMS and GG, for sure. I love The Ninja, for instance. Awesome game.

Anyway though, this comment's quite off base anyway -- I was talking about the Game Gear games, not the SMS versions, here, of course. That was the question, and I answered it about that, so I have no idea what you're talking about here. I haven't played the SMS versions for more than moments in emulation. The main thing I've done with SMS Sonic emulation was to play through the first world of the game, in order to see that yes, the first boss IS indeed actually not insanely hard and unfun on SMS; instead, it's actually fairly easy to deal with there.

Basically, you seem to have forgotten that I was answering a question about Game Gear Sonic, not the SMS... and anyway, given that only one of the four had a US SMS release and it costs hundreds of dollars, it's not like I'll ever get them either, unless I import them from Europe. I think that's a pretty good excuse for not owning them. (And plus, I have Sonics 1, 2, Chaos, and Triple Trouble for the Game Gear, and the other two in emulation collections. Do I really want duplicate copies for another system? I know Sonic 2 SMS is better... but eh, the game's still not that great... I don't know how much it'd be worth paying for.)

[Black_Tiger]

Regardless, there is no record of an official North American release. And either way, it's a PC port also on the NES (and many other computers too), so it's not like it's hugely significant anyway. The PC version certainly is, but the console versions of those games were always nowhere near as good as the originals.

Lol, there is no record of most of what we talk about on this site, if you haven't personally seen what you qualify as proof. I'm guessing that most of what you take as records are digital words typed (usually) anonymously on the internet. Which is as solid a definition of hearsay as it gets. Even if the copy of Ultima IV I bought bitd was somehow imported across the planet, I still saw it in the Sears catalogue. So unless I'm completely full of shit and lying twice, there is a printed record of a major store selling it, not just advertising it.

But this also another case of your blindly cancelling out games. Ultima IV has superior graphics and in my opinion, sound. To both the computer and NES versions. I loved that game so much that I rented the NES version as soon as it came out... and was hugely disappointed. It was fugly, watered down and just the worst kind of bastardization. It makes changes that aren't different but good or better, it's just a mess. If it's the only version you're tried, it could be a cool game. But the SMS version is one of favorite games of all time and I made lots of fan art for it bitd.

I love the NES/Famicom Final Fantasy's and played all the Dragon Warriors and pretty much every other NES RPG. But it all still doesn't match the experience of Phantasy Star and Miracle Warriors alone. Quantity does not equal quality and those two SMS RPGs have a special quality and fun factor that goes far beyond tech specs. I continue to play PS and MW much more than NES or even Genesis and SNES RPGs. No RPGs on those consoles are as much fun and thrilling, nor do any have more appealing aesthetics.

It seems that you're judging the SMS by magazine review standards. Just start with a perfect score and then chip away as you find anything you can deem flaws. The way that I look at games, with passion not criticism, linear review scores are way to narrow minded for something like video games. It's like trying to a straight ruler to measure an object with a random curving and angled shape and holes in it. The same goes for checklist and genre judgement. If quantity can equal quality, why stop there? Why not wait until a standardized method has been developed to measure average game completion times, so that we can measure total game library competition lengths and truly judge the amount of content? Whichever library is longest would be the best right?

[NeoZeedeater]

I think that's more than enough to have an opinion on the system.

This is what I got from you in this thread. -

You haven't played Wonder Boy III which many consider the best game on SMS (would you trust someone judging the NES without having played SMB3?). You also assumed Dragon's Curse is the superior version without having played it (which doesn't look good for your TG16 experience either despite you considering that the most underrated system).

You haven't played Phantasy Star or Final Fantasy for more than a few minutes yet act like someone's a fanboy for saying Phantasy Star was better, more unique, and more technically impressive.

You haven't played Shatterhand.

It's not you having an opinion that's a problem. Having an opinion on what you have played is cool. But when you say blanket statement stuff like this:

"The SMS is a decent system, but the NES is something special."

"SMS games just aren't good enough on average, and there aren't enough great games on the system either."

"The Master System library is okay, but the NES library is outstanding."

... without fully exploring both systems' libraries, it doesn't look good. You rightfully don't like when people judge the N64 without having played enough of its games but you have done that with the SMS.

[SEGACOOL]

Master System Fan!

Bought a Genesis new in late 1990 and shortly after bought the Sega Master Adaptor.

I can add the adaptor and play SMS games even light gun games.

Can't do that with a Nes and Snes.

Oh wait yeah my FC Twin plays both but wait no Nes light gun support and then I can't play some Snes games. Funny I have never had problems playing SMS games with the adaptor.

I do not even want to start anything on how bad these clones sound chips. When the Sega Master Adaptor gives me the same sounds and color as the Master System.

Maybe the Master System doesn't have the large amount of games but then who has time to play everything?

[A Black Falcon]

This is what I got from you in this thread. -

You haven't played Wonder Boy III which many consider the best game on SMS (would you trust someone judging the NES without having played SMB3?). You also assumed Dragon's Curse is the superior version without having played it (which doesn't look good for your TG16 experience either despite you considering that the most underrated system).

That's not true, I have indeed played some of the TG16 version, albeit only in emulation; I said I'd really like to own it, not that i hadn't played it emulated. I have -- and yeah, it's pretty good.

You haven't played Phantasy Star or Final Fantasy for more than a few minutes yet act like someone's a fanboy for saying Phantasy Star was better, more unique, and more technically impressive.

I'm sure some people are going find one better and other people the other. I don't have an opinion myself.

You haven't played Shatterhand.

That's a NES game, right? No, haven't played it. It's not especially common. I have quite a few good NES games though, including some of the less common ones like MetalStorm (great game!). I've got like 140-something NES games. I have fewer for the SMS of course, but compared to the size of its US library, I think I have a decent number.

It's not you having an opinion that's a problem. Having an opinion on what you have played is cool. But when you say blanket statement stuff like this:

"The SMS is a decent system, but the NES is something special."

"SMS games just aren't good enough on average, and there aren't enough great games on the system either."

"The Master System library is okay, but the NES library is outstanding."

... without fully exploring both systems' libraries, it doesn't look good. You rightfully don't like when people judge the N64 without having played enough of its games but you have done that with the SMS.

I've explored both libraries a decent amount, more than most people I'm sure... if I haven't played those libraries enough, then very, very few people have. You don't need to play every game on a system to take an opinion on it, by that standard almost no one has played any system's library enough to have an opinion on them.

Oh, and I stand by those comments you quoted.

[Smii]

It doesn't? I'd forgotten that. Even worse then! The other games have pretty lame special stages, which are just normal sidescrolling areas where you go around and get coins

Lol they're RINGS foo'! Everyting else you said becomes invalid!

[A Black Falcon]

I love the NES/Famicom Final Fantasy's and played all the Dragon Warriors and pretty much every other NES RPG. But it all still doesn't match the experience of Phantasy Star and Miracle Warriors alone. Quantity does not equal quality and those two SMS RPGs have a special quality and fun factor that goes far beyond tech specs. I continue to play PS and MW much more than NES or even Genesis and SNES RPGs. No RPGs on those consoles are as much fun and thrilling, nor do any have more appealing aesthetics.

That's your opinion, but it's certainly not one I share... the only late '80s to early '90s menu-based RPGs I have a strong interest in are the ones on the PC, like Pools of Radiance, Curse of the Azure Bonds, etc. Those do still have some of the grind of console RPGs like those, but at least they have much better, more complex gameplay. I very rarely like games where what you do is grind for hours and hours and hours with a battle system with Fight/Magic/Run as basically all you choose from, as you find in most JRPGs, and many pre-Pools of Radiance Western RPGs too. I have managed to enjoy a few such games, the Etrian Odyssey ones maybe most notably, but generally I really dislike grind. But yeah, stuff like Phantasy Star 1 or 2, or Miracle Warriors, where like 99% of the game is incredibly tedious grinding without even the puzzles and such that make Wizardry 6 slightly more interesting; not enough to keep me from dropping it after a few floors thanks to the ridiculously unforgiving game design, of course, but I do think of the game positively despite that. But anyway, that's just not the kind of thing I am often going to like very much. I didn't grow up playing RPGs, and when I did play RPGs it was PC RPGs first... I like some console RPGs now (not something I'd have said in the '90s for sure), but still, the grind-mountain ones? No thanks.

And yes, I assume that that rules out Final Fantasy too.

It seems that you're judging the SMS by magazine review standards. Just start with a perfect score and then chip away as you find anything you can deem flaws. The way that I look at games, with passion not criticism, linear review scores are way to narrow minded for something like video games. It's like trying to a straight ruler to measure an object with a random curving and angled shape and holes in it.

Magazine standards? What magazines? I don't think I've ever read a SMS game magazine review... but anyway, I have nothing against review scores. I don't always use them in my own reviews, because I think the review text is the most important thing and not the score, but I don't dislike scores. When I do score games, I generally use eithe percent or grade-letter scoring systems; I like percent-based systems the best.

The same goes for checklist and genre judgement. If quantity can equal quality, why stop there? Why not wait until a standardized method has been developed to measure average game completion times, so that we can measure total game library competition lengths and truly judge the amount of content? Whichever library is longest would be the best right?

Given that the N64 is my favorite console, of course I would never agree to this. My point with the NES vs. SMS is that the NES has both quantity and quality, not one or the other. Sure, the SMS has some quality too, but not quite as much overall. But the main advantage the NES has in having so many more games isn't just that it has more games, but more great games too.

[TheSonicRetard]

more than most people I'm sure

Not on this board.

[A Black Falcon]

Not on this board.

Not more than people in this board who post often in Master System threads, sure. But the board as a whole? That I have no idea, less likely. I mean, there are plenty of members here who don't post in SMS threads. I'm sure I've played more SMS games than lots of them. I mean, I own a bunch of games for it, and have played other stuff in emulation too. Heck, I even have the 3D Glasses and a Sports Pad...

[TheSonicRetard]

Yet, somehow, you don't have the most popular, best known game on the system. All the street cred of someone who owns a ROB and no Mario 3.

[j_factor]

That's a NES game, right? No, haven't played it. It's not especially common. I have quite a few good NES games though, including some of the less common ones like MetalStorm (great game!). I've got like 140-something NES games. I have fewer for the SMS of course, but compared to the size of its US library, I think I have a decent number.

This really boggles the mind. Shatterhand is one of the top NES games IMO.

[A Black Falcon]

Yet, somehow, you don't have the most popular, best known game on the system. All the street cred of someone who owns a ROB and no Mario 3.

Maybe that's true in Europe, but look on EBay -- even the first Wonder Boy's quite uncommon in the US, never mind that second one.

For instance, right now, there are no US copies of Wonder Boy in Monster Land for sale on EBay; one's from Canada, one's a Japanese copy, but the rest are Europe and Australia. Wonder Boy III's not in any better supply, though one copy is from the US. One and only one.

And also, most of the SMS games I have are ones I bought myself, locally. I got the system itself on EBay, with like 15+ games and controllers and stuff (no really rare stuff, but it was a nice start, and did have stuff like The Ninja and a 3-D game or two), but apart from Rastan, which I did get online, all the rest of the games I have are ones I got locally. Fortunately I've found enough to get one every so often. My most recent pickup was Zillion, which I got last month (for just a couple of dollars, cart only).

Anyway, point is, the SMS Wonder Boy games are actually pretty uncommon in the US. I looked on EBay recently, and was surprised to find that even the first Wonder Boy is a good $15-30 for SMS... and you're saying that the third game in the series, which is at best just as uncommon, is something that everyone with an SMS owns? Hah!

This really boggles the mind. Shatterhand is one of the top NES games IMO.

That's not a very well known game, you know. I'm sure that a whole lot of NES fans have never even heard of it... I mean, sure, it may be good, but every successful system has great games that aren't as well known as they perhaps should be. The NES is certainly no exception.

[Zz Badnusty]

Wonderboy III for sms was still readily stocked at Toys R Us and Kay B and others well into the Genesis release.
It was certainly quite common
Perhaps you don't see people selling them on eBay because no one wants to get rid of such a dope game.