Have games reach the max in sound developing?

[Joe Redifer]

The PS3 and 360 don't support Dolby Digital 7.1, so there is room for improvement in that area.

There's no such thing as Dolby Digital 7.1. There's Dolby TrueHD and the PS3 supports that along with DTSHDMA. Most PS3 games output uncompressed audio in the 7.1 format. Very few games fall back to 5.1 unless you're outputting via the optical cable.. Xbox is 5.1 Dolby Digital only. PS3 also supports the high bitrate stuff like 24bit 96khz/192khz etc.

Dolby just came out with a new theatrical format called Atmos. It is both more complex and less complex than current videogame systems at the same time. It stores each sound uncompressed as its own element instead of a linear PCM stream and plays it back when it's called for at the proper speaker location, just like videogame systems do. It has up to 64 channels (speakers) in the auditorium which are all independent (not like cinemas now where all the speakers on the left wall, for instance, are one channel). But it can only play back 128 sounds simultaneously. The Xbox 360 is more powerful than that with 256 channels of audio.

So basically the audio portion of videogames are powerful enough. Most people need to upgrade their systems just to hear how good current games can sound. There is no current home sound format greater than 7.1 and that is already supported.

[Chilly Willy]

Yes, 7.1. Sorry about that - I confused 8 channel with 7.1, so my 8.1 statement was wrong.

[gamevet]

Uncompressed has nothing to do with sample rate or overall quality of the music or sound. Anyone can use uncompressed audio on anything they want that supports it (ot's not exclusive to the PS3)... although it's stupid and sloppy to do so. Better to use a lossless codec that still saves space as opposed to getting used to just putting on bloated audio files. Even the BRD's don't have infinite space, and there are many games that exist now that could eat up the entire disk without issue if they weren't carefully watching the space.

Blu-Ray movies use uncompressed audio. If you have a DVD and a Blu-Ray of the same movie, try popping them in for a brief play and you'll notice how crappy the compressed audio on DVD is most of the time. In most cases, it's like the improvement in sound from VHS to DVD. I've added 2 pictures below that show the sample rate of the DVD and Blu-Ray for Terminator 3.

The last time I checked, most games when uncompressed to an HDD max out at about 11 gigs. It'll be quite some time before we see games that'll fill 54 gigs of space.

And as TmEE has mentioned. Being able to simply play audio files is not the be all end all of audio. Essentially the new systems mostly do the equivalent of putting a CD in a player. Some of the older systems had the ability to (figuratively) give them some sheet music and instruments and they would play it themselves.

Yeah, and they won't sound anything like the real instruments.

We're at a point where the sound output of the consoles and PC are nearly as realistic as listening to a real orchestra or hearing the sounds of a sporting event.

[Joe Redifer]

The majority of Blu-ray movies use losslessly compressed audio like DTS HD-MA or sometimes Dolby TrueHD. But there are a few with no compression of any kind, like Kill Bill 1 and 2.

Anyway I think the PS3 could make any sound the Genesis or Saturn could. It may take more storage space for it to do so, but these days that's not really an issue.

[gamevet]

There's no such thing as Dolby Digital 7.1. There's Dolby TrueHD and the PS3 supports that along with DTSHDMA. Most PS3 games output uncompressed audio in the 7.1 format. Very few games fall back to 5.1 unless you're outputting via the optical cable.. Xbox is 5.1 Dolby Digital only. PS3 also supports the high bitrate stuff like 24bit 96khz/192khz etc.

Dolby just came out with a new theatrical format called Atmos. It is both more complex and less complex than current videogame systems at the same time. It stores each sound uncompressed as its own element instead of a linear PCM stream and plays it back when it's called for at the proper speaker location, just like videogame systems do. It has up to 64 channels (speakers) in the auditorium which are all independent (not like cinemas now where all the speakers on the left wall, for instance, are one channel). But it can only play back 128 sounds simultaneously. The Xbox 360 is more powerful than that with 256 channels of audio.

So basically the audio portion of videogames are powerful enough. Most people need to upgrade their systems just to hear how good current games can sound. There is no current home sound format greater than 7.1 and that is already supported.

Unfortunately, I'm stuck with a cheap 5.1 surround reciever that only does Dolby Digital through the optical and coaxial inputs. I didn't have much cash, when my 1993 Pro-Logic reciever bit the dust a couple of years ago. 5.1 sounds pretty good and I'd have to replace my expensive rear tower speakers to have a realistic 7.1 speaker setup in my limited space.

I remember seeing that the 360 did 5.1, but I didn't recall that the PS3 did 7.1, since I've been running 5.1 for the past couple of years.

[Joe Redifer]

You can only do 7.1 over HDMI-out. I imagine the option doesn't show up unless you have an HDMI cable hooked up. And if it doesn't detect a 7.1-capable receiver, it probably also won't show up.

Here's an information nugget: 640kbps is the highest bitrate that regular ol' lossy Dolby Digital can go to. DVDs max out at 448kbps Dolby Digital. Most use even less. Dolby TrueHD and DTS HD-MA are waaaay higher than that.

[Chibisteven]

Blu-Ray movies use uncompressed audio. If you have a DVD and a Blu-Ray of the same movie, try popping them in for a brief play and you'll notice how crappy the compressed audio on DVD is most of the time. In most cases, it's like the improvement in sound from VHS to DVD. I've added 2 pictures below that show the sample rate of the DVD and Blu-Ray for Terminator 3.

The last time I checked, most games when uncompressed to an HDD max out at about 11 gigs. It'll be quite some time before we see games that'll fill 54 gigs of space.





Yeah, and they won't sound anything like the real instruments.

We're at a point where the sound output of the consoles and PC are nearly as realistic as listening to a real orchestra or hearing the sounds of a sporting event.

There is an improvement in sound over VHS Hi-Fi if the audio source material wasn't dynamically compressed or had a better frequency response then 20Hz - 20Khz, and a noise floor below -72 to 80 db and discrete 5.1 Surround. Proven with a professional VHS machine recording is Hi-Fi without moving a little bit of the sound to left, which may be to help with those Stereo linear audio tracks (horrible quality), most consumer VHS machines don't support linear Stereo (which is pretty bad quality anyway) even if it's Hi-Fi Stereo machine. White and Red RCA jacks, use 'em.

DVD is compressed, yes, but it's lossy. Bluray has lossless compression for most of it's titles (which does not have an effect on audio quality at all). This is why you notice a difference.

[gamevet]

You can only do 7.1 over HDMI-out. I imagine the option doesn't show up unless you have an HDMI cable hooked up. And if it doesn't detect a 7.1-capable receiver, it probably also won't show up.

This Sony reciever is so jacked up, that it only splits the video out through HDMI. The sound has to come through the RCA ports (Pro-logic II) or through the optical and coaxial inputs for 5.1 surround.

Here's an information nugget: 640kbps is the highest bitrate that regular ol' lossy Dolby Digital can go to. DVDs max out at 448kbps Dolby Digital. Most use even less. Dolby TrueHD and DTS HD-MA are waaaay higher than that.

Yeah, I've posted some pics of the same movie on DVD and Blu-Ray. They show up with that exact bit-rate.

There is an improvement in sound over VHS Hi-Fi if the audio source material wasn't dynamically compressed or had a better frequency response then 20Hz - 20Khz, and a noise floor below -72 to 80 db and discrete 5.1 Surround. Proven with a professional VHS machine recording is Hi-Fi without moving a little bit of the sound to left, which may be to help with those Stereo linear audio tracks (horrible quality), most consumer VHS machines don't support linear Stereo (which is pretty bad quality anyway) even if it's Hi-Fi Stereo machine. White and Red RCA jacks, use 'em.

DVD is compressed, yes, but it's lossy. Bluray has lossless compression for most of it's titles (which does not have an effect on audio quality at all). This is why you notice a difference.

I had a really bad-ass 4 head Hi-Fi VCR that was manufactured by Fisher. Yeah, there were several movies that just sounded absolutely great, like Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade. Then there were others that just sounded like they were in stereo. It would be nice if I could find a VCR that was as nice as that old Fisher.

[GohanX]

There's a little room for improvement, but you really need a good system and ear to tell the difference. My issue is more with video game sound designers. There are some PS3 games with phenomenal sound, but far too many stick with regular Dolby Digital, and aren't mixed that well anyway.

[Chibisteven]

I had a really bad-ass 4 head Hi-Fi VCR that was manufactured by Fisher. Yeah, there were several movies that just sounded absolutely great, like Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade. Then there were others that just sounded like they were in stereo. It would be nice if I could find a VCR that was as nice as that old Fisher.

If it's still around it might be fixable depending on a couple of things.

I found it can be as simple as the ribbon cable being loose for the control head in a VCR (not the spinning drum but it's closer to a pinch wheel and stationary, it's where the linear sound comes off from), can revive the entire machine, if it likes dinner or refuses to rewind (some models that don't dethread tapes will do this). Don't touch the head surface.

No picture or hi-fi sound, check the cable and wires attached to the top of that spinning drum. Don't touch the spinning metal part of the drum.

Check to make sure the rubber on that pinch wheel is not cracked.

Check the caps, resisters, and fuse for faults.

Make sure you machine isn't confused, there might be circle switch with a pin or point that goes into the gear above it should fit in there in hole about the same size in that gear. Hope it's not broken off.

Check the belts.

Avoid adding too much grease to the gears, too much is worse then too little, unless you want to feed it dinner. Generally it will last a long time, so usually you don't to worry about.

Never force anything.

[gamevet]

If it's still around it might be fixable depending on a couple of things.

I found it can be as simple as the ribbon cable being loose for the control head in a VCR (not the spinning drum but it's closer to a pinch wheel and stationary, it's where the linear sound comes off from), can revive the entire machine, if it likes dinner or refuses to rewind (some models that don't dethread tapes will do this). Don't touch the head surface.

No picture or hi-fi sound, check the cable and wires attached to the top of that spinning drum. Don't touch the spinning metal part of the drum.

Check to make sure the rubber on that pinch wheel is not cracked.

Check the caps, resisters, and fuse for faults.

Make sure you machine isn't confused, there might be circle switch with a pin or point that goes into the gear above it should fit in there in hole about the same size in that gear. Hope it's not broken off.

Check the belts.

Avoid adding too much grease to the gears, too much is worse then too little, unless you want to feed it dinner. Generally it will last a long time, so usually you don't to worry about.

Never force anything.

I pretty much checked everything inside. The belts were good, the gears looked clean and moved when turned by hand. It appeared that the motor might have been giving out, causing the tapes to spool into the VCR.

I ended up trashing it.

[Chibisteven]

I pretty much checked everything inside. The belts were good, the gears looked clean and moved when turned by hand. It appeared that the motor might have been giving out, causing the tapes to spool into the VCR.

I ended up trashing it.

Sorry to hear that trashed it.

Control head can make it appear that the motor is not working as the machine can't tell how much tension to apply to the tape. Some machine have issues with threading tapes as well because they dethread to rewind or fastforward (usually older machines) and rethread to play.

[gamevet]

Sorry to hear that trashed it.

Control head can make it appear that the motor is not working as the machine can't tell how much tension to apply to the tape. Some machine have issues with threading tapes as well because they dethread to rewind or fastforward (usually older machines) and rethread to play.

It was definitely an older machine. It was from the early 90's, so it had a pretty good run.

[Joe Redifer]

The problem with VHS Hi-Fi is the switching noise. I can hear it and it is hard to un-hear.

[Chibisteven]

The problem with VHS Hi-Fi is the switching noise. I can hear it and it is hard to un-hear.

It's modulated on to the tape at low frequencies. Not all tapes suffer from it. Most tapes I can't even hear it. If the buzzing is really bad you can usually set the machine into linear audio mode (which decreases fidelty and most will play monaral audio). Usually misalignments can cause it (like bad tapes or defects in the machine). Another cause is worn audio head causing a problem called "head chatter".