Short reviews of all games I have for a system: Saturn

[sheath]

This thread was an unusual read. A couple of random comments:

Repped. If I had the energy of my twenty year old self I'd post a thread of all of the RPGs I own across platforms, especially Playstation and SNES, and tell everybody what my thoughts were on them.

Fighting Vipers - there is an option to "move in 3D". I can't remember if Fighter's Megamix has this option or not. Also, you can change the length of the rounds.

The Virtua Fighter characters in Megamix play almost exactly like they do in Virtua Fighter 3, dodge move and all.

Sega Rally - hard to get past the review complaint that it doesn't have enough content when the reviewer hasn't even played the fourth track. Saying the entire game can be finished in five minutes is kind of inaccurate if you didn't even finish it. And their are other options that are endless, like time lag races, ghost car, and modem play. This was the first racing game that I ever played that you could "feel" the different road surfaces. Other games of the era may have more tracks but they are far more generic.

Let me anticipate the response. One extra track! Well that just doesn't make up for the game's lack of modes which I equate to content.

Seriously though, Sega Rally has nearly infinite replayability. You are right too, it is the first game of that generation that will let you feel the differences between track surfaces. It is also the only one I have found that will change your traction accordingly based on one tire coming off the road. Not even the PS2 Gran Turismo games did that.

Virtua Racing - poor driving physics compared to the 32X and Genesis versions of the same game, average at best.

I have been overruled by our resident F1 expert on this. I would still insist that it plays at least as well as most popular Playstation race franchises, especially the Ridge Racer series.

[A Black Falcon]

This thread was an unusual read. A couple of random comments:

Fighting Vipers - there is an option to "move in 3D". I can't remember if Fighter's Megamix has this option or not. Also, you can change the length of the rounds.

Fighter's Megamix does indeed have 3d movement, but not Fighting Vipers. Fighter's Megamix was Sega's first fighting game with 3d movement, and it's their only one with it on the Saturn, as while Last Bronx released later, it doesn't have it.

Sega Rally - hard to get past the review complaint that it doesn't have enough content when the reviewer hasn't even played the fourth track. Saying the entire game can be finished in five minutes is kind of inaccurate if you didn't even finish it.

I played the game quite a few times, but couldn't finish above somewhere around 3rd-4th or so; more tries had no effect, I wasn't improving one bit. So I gave up, because the game's too hard to finish in first. As for the point about length, what I meant of course was that each game doesn't last over five minutes -- you can see all of the content (except for that extremely-hard-to-get-to fourth track) in five minutes. Any play beyond that is just trying to master getting perfect at the game so you can actually get to track four... the game's very good, but incredibly light on content.

And their are other options that are endless, like time lag races, ghost car, and modem play.

Those are just minor variations, and certainly aren't endless. Also, most people can't use that modem play...

This was the first racing game that I ever played that you could "feel" the different road surfaces.

I've heard people say this before, but don't quite get it myself. Maybe that it had multiple road surfaces was new for a game from late 1995, but I don't know... I'm sure there are precedents before it.

Other games of the era may have more tracks but they are far more generic.

Now that would be entirely a matter of opinion. I'll agree that it's one of the Saturn's best racing games, and the most fun to play of the Sega Rally games, but I don't think that means that other games of the time are more generic. Though, I guess it depends on which games you're talking about. It's more interesting than plenty of bland car racing games that existed that gen, sure, I'll give it that much anyway.

Virtua Racing - poor driving physics compared to the 32X and Genesis versions of the same game, average at best.

I don't think V.R. for Saturn has physics that are nearly as bad as you say... and the controls and handling are great, provided that you're playing it with the Arcade Racer. It's bad with d-pad, but good with wheel.

[StarMist]

Lakeside's available via cheat. So is the Stratos.

@ sheath = don't know about its popularity but there's an F-1 game on PS from Psygnosis reputed to be very good. Not my class of racers so I can't speak to it. Early game too iirc.

[Bones Justice]

Seriously though, Sega Rally has nearly infinite replayability. You are right too, it is the first game of that generation that will let you feel the differences between track surfaces. It is also the only one I have found that will change your traction accordingly based on one tire coming off the road. Not even the PS2 Gran Turismo games did that.

Yeah, that's why it's so awesome!

Fighter's Megamix does indeed have 3d movement, but not Fighting Vipers. Fighter's Megamix was Sega's first fighting game with 3d movement, and it's their only one with it on the Saturn, as while Last Bronx released later, it doesn't have it.

No, we played Fighting Vipers all the time with this option. You can step left or right ("in or out of the screen") at will. How is that not 3D movement? The arcade version doesn't have this option but the Saturn version does.

I played the game quite a few times, but couldn't finish above somewhere around 3rd-4th or so; more tries had no effect, I wasn't improving one bit. So I gave up, because the game's too hard to finish in first. As for the point about length, what I meant of course was that each game doesn't last over five minutes -- you can see all of the content (except for that extremely-hard-to-get-to fourth track) in five minutes. Any play beyond that is just trying to master getting perfect at the game so you can actually get to track four... the game's very good, but incredibly light on content.

You don't have to be perfect to get to track four. I can get to track four without even coming close to some of the times that I've seen for the game.

As for length, it's an arcade game like Street Fighter 2. You can play the game through in less than ten minutes but that doesn't mean you've finished it. The tracks in Sega Rally really are complex compared to other racing games of the era. I remember getting V-Rally for Playstation and thinking, wow, forty tracks! I had never seen a game with that many tracks before. I enjoyed playing it but after a while, I realized that the variations in tracks were more just what combinations of straights and curves there were. I went back to Sega Rally again and again because there is so much more to the driving than just knowing the combination of turns. Like that big sand curve on the Desert course, there's nothing like it in V-Rally or other racing games of that era.

Those are just minor variations, and certainly aren't endless. Also, most people can't use that modem play...

Actually, the time lag can be endless, it's a competition that continues until one driver beats the other. We've had a number of races that went over an hour even with the lag set for just a few seconds. I remember one race lasting over two hours before we finally agreed to give it up as a tie. I suppose we could have kept playing until one of us collapsed! XD

I've traded ghost car data with another player for many years. Even just playing against my own ghost car is challenging.

I suppose in recent times, some can't use modem play now that digital phone lines have become the norm. But that was not in the case back in the day. But there's nothing to stop gameplay over a local (internal) phone line -- I've done it plenty of times.

I've heard people say this before, but don't quite get it myself. Maybe that it had multiple road surfaces was new for a game from late 1995, but I don't know... I'm sure there are precedents before it.

Could be, but it was a first for me. Definitely feels different than and superior to any other racers from that era.

I don't think V.R. for Saturn has physics that are nearly as bad as you say... and the controls and handling are great, provided that you're playing it with the Arcade Racer. It's bad with d-pad, but good with wheel.

I have the Arcade Racer but that's not what I'm referring to. It's not a terrible game but the physics are inferior to the other versions of the game. My "favorite" in Saturn VR is when my car stops dead then spins 360-degrees after I've made a bad turn.

But hey, it's just my opinion, no hard feelings.

Lakeside's available via cheat. So is the Stratos. @ sheath = don't know about its popularity but there's an F-1 game on PS from Psygnosis reputed to be very good. Not my class of racers so I can't speak to it. Early game too iirc.

I've never tried that cheat. I can't imagine it would do any good to have access to Lakeside without having earned it, though. If you're not good enough to get there then you'll never beat it!

I used to play that F1 game. Agreed, it's a good game but I recall that some of the computer cars don't pit. Still fun linked up, though.

[A Black Falcon]

I'll respond to the rest separately, but seriously, you need to look up Fighting Vipers 1's controls again. While Fighters Megamix and DC games such as VF3 and Fighting Vipers 2 have 3d movement (free sidestepping), the only sidestep in VF1 is the same extremely limited one as in the first two Virtua Figher games, that after being knocked down you can roll to the sides. You cannot freely maneuver to the sides.

[Bones Justice]

I'll respond to the rest separately, but seriously, you need to look up Fighting Vipers 1's controls again. While Fighters Megamix and DC games such as VF3 and Fighting Vipers 2 have 3d movement (free sidestepping), the only sidestep in VF1 is the same extremely limited one as in the first two Virtua Figher games, that after being knocked down you can roll to the sides. You cannot freely maneuver to the sides.

No, sorry, you are definitely wrong on this one. If you play in the Saturn exclusive "hyper" mode of Fighting Vipers, you can freely side-step, not just when you are knocked down. This is the mode we always use to play.

[A Black Falcon]

I very much wish that you were right, but you're not. No matter what mode you choose, up jumps and down ducks. Hyper mode only adds the ability to throw off your armor at any time if you press Back + B + C.

[TrekkiesUnite118]

Not this stupid shit again...

[Barone]

Virtua Racing - poor driving physics compared to the 32X and Genesis versions of the same game, average at best.

Yeah, the Saturn version is really bad IMO. And I did gave it a fair chance with my steering wheel (due to Black Falcon's arguments) and it's still a chore to play IMO.
Controls are poor and the hit detection is just off. The car reaction for the different terrain types is also completely wrong.
V.R. used to be a very fun game, a joy to play. Saturn's V.R. is boring and frustrating as hell.

Seriously though, Sega Rally has nearly infinite replayability.

Controls are awesome and the tracks were designed in such a way that you always have more to explore and many ways to do a "good lap".
I played it with wheel, pedals and all... And couldn't stop playing it. More addicting than Daytona USA Circuit Edition IMO.

You are right too, it is the first game of that generation that will let you feel the differences between track surfaces. It is also the only one I have found that will change your traction accordingly based on one tire coming off the road. Not even the PS2 Gran Turismo games did that.

IDK about all games, but for Rally games of that generation it's surely true...
Later, Colin McRae Rally games on the PC/PS1 rendered it obsolete in terms of realism though.
But Sega Rally is an arcade game, let's not forget that. It just brought some realistic elements in order to expand the gameplay and make everything even more awesome.

PS2 Gran Turismo games are no good parameters IMO. From the same "era", Mobil 1 Rally Championship (PC version, please), released in 2000, has everything that made Sega Rally great with improvements and many other "realistic" elements. An awesome game.

I would still insist that it plays at least as well as most popular Playstation race franchises, especially the Ridge Racer series.

I disagree but I would need to know exactly which are the other franchises that you're referring to besides RR series...
Saturn's V.R. is a disaster IMO, but let's say that it is "OK" or "average"; well, it's still not on par with the popular PS1 franchises IMO.

Let's see:
Colin McRae Rally games: very popular, both in Europe and US. Awesome games with great controls, visuals, sound and more realism than any racing game on the Saturn.
Gran Turismo games: Great games with some awesome visuals and tons of replayability.
Need for Speed games: Oh, good days when NFS was a good series of racing games... Aside from Need for Speed: Porsche Unleashed (that is awesome on the PC but quite mediocre on the PS1) all other games play much better than Saturn's V.R.... Even the first Need for Speed game, if you're using a NeGcon compatible controller (like mine or 99% of the 3rd party PS1 steering wheels) in order to have analog controls. Some people also include the V-Rally games in the NFS series (I reject that idea despite of the US EA cheapness for name choices), but even those games are good.
TOCA series: great games and you know that. The last game, known as Jarret & Labonte Stock Car Racing in US, is a masterpiece. A must for any PS1 owner into racing games IMO.

I can give you the Ridge Racer series since only the fourth game is really solid but the previous ones are very playable if you're NOT using a d-pad. As for most of the earlier PS1 racing games, you need to have a NeGcon compatible (NeGcon or any 3rd party steering wheel or one of those JogCon/NeGcon dual controllers like Interact's Ultraracer or Performance's Mega Racer) controller or, in some cases, an analog (not dual shock) compatible controller (Sony's dual stick or Sony's ill conceived dual analog controller or Interact's Barracuda controllers) to properly play those games.
I'll also give you the Test Drive series since they are mostly mediocre games (even more on the PS1).
EA's NASCAR series is very mediocre but I still fail to see the same problems that I find in Saturn's V.R.. The later NASCAR games are solid in terms of controls and hit detection. Can't say the same about the framerate though, eheh.

But aside from that you still have stuff like Touge Max or Option Tuning Car Battle games, that were popular in Japan and with PS1 fans used to import games. And those are leagues better than Saturn's V.R. in terms of controls/hit detection/handling/fun...

Some PS1 Games that I would put in the same level of crappy controls of Saturn's V.R.:
Formula Circus (horribly bad in all areas)
GT Max Rev.: All Japan Touring Car Championship (a true nightmare in terms of controls)
International Moto X


For F1 games the PS1 also has some very decent options like Monaco Grand Prix, F1 2000 (these two aren't on par with their PC versions but are good), Formula 1 (StarMist and BJ were probably referring to this one), Formula 1 Championship Edition (the sequel of Formula 1) and Formula 1 2001 (PAL only but with awesome graphics).

I have the Arcade Racer but that's not what I'm referring to. It's not a terrible game but the physics are inferior to the other versions of the game. My "favorite" in Saturn VR is when my car stops dead then spins 360-degrees after I've made a bad turn.

This.

I used to play that F1 game. Agreed, it's a good game but I recall that some of the computer cars don't pit. Still fun linked up, though.

I never had the opportunity to play a PS1 game linked up...

[StarMist]

I never had the opportunity to play a PS1 game linked up...

So crack out Formula-1. Then Wipeout 3 for four players on two split screens.
How do you like Car and Driver Presents Grand Tour `98? And are you an RC de Go! fan? (Saturn deviation here, sorry).

[Baloo]

I played the game quite a few times, but couldn't finish above somewhere around 3rd-4th or so; more tries had no effect, I wasn't improving one bit. So I gave up, because the game's too hard to finish in first. As for the point about length, what I meant of course was that each game doesn't last over five minutes -- you can see all of the content (except for that extremely-hard-to-get-to fourth track) in five minutes. Any play beyond that is just trying to master getting perfect at the game so you can actually get to track four... the game's very good, but incredibly light on content.

I agree with you here. No matter how many times I tried, I was NEVER able to get first in Sega Rally, mainly because of the very first desert stage. That big curve at the end of the level is ridiculously hard to clear and pass the two cars ahead of you to get first. The 2nd and 3rd stages aren't nearly as difficult IMHO. Daytona I thought was challenging but after unlocking some of the cars with better control and decent speed I was able to finish 1st on all three tracks. Sega Rally...really, really difficult to finish first and get to Lakeside. Used the cheat to get to Lakeside once and got my ass totally kicked. Though it is still an excellent game regardless, one of the best arcade racers of all-time.

And while we're on the subject of Daytona, I thought it was an excellent game. Too many people complain about the pop-up when in all reality it's a non-factor. The controls are spot on and WAY better than Daytona CCE. Some great unlockables and the courses are all there from the arcade. I thought it was a great launch title for the Saturn and had a blast with it for quite a while.

[sheath]

Yeah, the Saturn version is really bad IMO. And I did gave it a fair chance with my steering wheel (due to Black Falcon's arguments) and it's still a chore to play IMO.
Controls are poor and the hit detection is just off. The car reaction for the different terrain types is also completely wrong.
V.R. used to be a very fun game, a joy to play. Saturn's V.R. is boring and frustrating as hell.

I am supposing you have tried all of the vehicles and not just the F1. The rest of the vehicle types was where I really grew an appreciation for the game. Keep in mind that I hated it at first, and didn't even buy a complete copy. I think it was about ten years later where I started playing the stock car and go kart and started to see it as a legitimate early racer because of those.

Controls are awesome and the tracks were designed in such a way that you always have more to explore and many ways to do a "good lap".
I played it with wheel, pedals and all... And couldn't stop playing it. More addicting than Daytona USA Circuit Edition IMO.

I think I said it to you in private, but Sega Rally is probably the only Saturn game I have tried to complete. There was a while where I was starting to find it boring because I kept finishing all four tracks without any effort. Today I'd have to spend an afternoon or something to play it that well. Because of that, Sega Rally is one of the few games I would call virtually perfect. Along with Virtual On and VOOT, Sega Rally is one of the few games that that really couldn't be better by adding more modes, characters, cars and tracks/levels.

IDK about all games, but for Rally games of that generation it's surely true...
Later, Colin McRae Rally games on the PC/PS1 rendered it obsolete in terms of realism though.
But Sega Rally is an arcade game, let's not forget that. It just brought some realistic elements in order to expand the gameplay and make everything even more awesome.

I don't really make a distinction between Arcade and Console games in regard to gameplay quality. If some PS1 game had the same handling and excellent track design as Sega Rally but with more modes, tracks and cars I would consider it better. Test Drive V-Rally and Colin McRae really didn't do that for me. Maybe they are a better Rally simulation, but they are definitely not as easy to pick up and play.

PS2 Gran Turismo games are no good parameters IMO. From the same "era", Mobil 1 Rally Championship (PC version, please), released in 2000, has everything that made Sega Rally great with improvements and many other "realistic" elements. An awesome game.

I haven't played Mobil 1 at all, I will have to check it out sometime if I can find it. Older PC games aren't very easy to install in Windows 7 64-bit though.

I disagree but I would need to know exactly which are the other franchises that you're referring to besides RR series...
Saturn's V.R. is a disaster IMO, but let's say that it is "OK" or "average"; well, it's still not on par with the popular PS1 franchises IMO.

Let's see:
Colin McRae Rally games: very popular, both in Europe and US. Awesome games with great controls, visuals, sound and more realism than any racing game on the Saturn.
Gran Turismo games: Great games with some awesome visuals and tons of replayability.
Need for Speed games: Oh, good days when NFS was a good series of racing games... Aside from Need for Speed: Porsche Unleashed (that is awesome on the PC but quite mediocre on the PS1) all other games play much better than Saturn's V.R.... Even the first Need for Speed game, if you're using a NeGcon compatible controller (like mine or 99% of the 3rd party PS1 steering wheels) in order to have analog controls. Some people also include the V-Rally games in the NFS series (I reject that idea despite of the US EA cheapness for name choices), but even those games are good.
TOCA series: great games and you know that. The last game, known as Jarret & Labonte Stock Car Racing in US, is a masterpiece. A must for any PS1 owner into racing games IMO.

All of these games control better than Saturn V.R. for sure. But I would still like to point out that Saturn V.R. is virtually a Saturn launch game and has more car types and tracks than other early PS1 racers. The only thing I can think of that comes close is High Velocity and Road and Track's Need for Speed. It seemed to me that development time needed to be spent in one place or the other back then because there was no real foundation. So, they either spent the time/money on refining the gameplay, or on more cars and tracks. Even Gran Turismo 1+2 don't play as well as Sega Rally for example. Need for Speed 1 was awesome though, even though it is relatively obscure for a PS1 racer.

I can give you the Ridge Racer series since only the fourth game is really solid but the previous ones are very playable if you're NOT using a d-pad. As for most of the earlier PS1 racing games, you need to have a NeGcon compatible (NeGcon or any 3rd party steering wheel or one of those JogCon/NeGcon dual controllers like Interact's Ultraracer or Performance's Mega Racer) controller or, in some cases, an analog (not dual shock) compatible controller (Sony's dual stick or Sony's ill conceived dual analog controller or Interact's Barracuda controllers) to properly play those games.
I'll also give you the Test Drive series since they are mostly mediocre games (even more on the PS1).

Yeah, I haven't tried any of the Ridge Racers with a wheel or analog controls. I think their physics are only a slight upgrade from Pole Position though. I can't see how a wheel would make the car feel any less like a unicycle. It probably would make it easier to not turn on a dime and hit a wall though.

EA's NASCAR series is very mediocre but I still fail to see the same problems that I find in Saturn's V.R.. The later NASCAR games are solid in terms of controls and hit detection. Can't say the same about the framerate though, eheh.

But aside from that you still have stuff like Touge Max or Option Tuning Car Battle games, that were popular in Japan and with PS1 fans used to import games. And those are leagues better than Saturn's V.R. in terms of controls/hit detection/handling/fun...

I haven't played the PS1 imports at all. My car nut roomate bought some later Nascar game on the Saturn though and even he couldn't stand it, we ended up playing Daytona CCE instead.

For F1 games the PS1 also has some very decent options like Monaco Grand Prix, F1 2000 (these two aren't on par with their PC versions but are good), Formula 1 (StarMist and BJ were probably referring to this one), Formula 1 Championship Edition (the sequel of Formula 1) and Formula 1 2001 (PAL only but with awesome graphics).

Isn't Monaco Grand Prix originally an N64 game? The Dreamcast port plays like a full on simulation, it's awesome. I will have to remember Formula 1 if I see it. I am more keen on seeing what earlier titles achieved than the later ones.

[Barone]

So crack out Formula-1. Then Wipeout 3 for four players on two split screens.
How do you like Car and Driver Presents Grand Tour `98? And are you an RC de Go! fan? (Saturn deviation here, sorry).

RC de Go! is awesome. Great controls, great fun... I passed it at first since I prefer "real" racing games but it's a great title for sure.
Car and Driver Presents Grand Tour `98 is great but I'm looking forward to dump the Japanese version that actually has dual shock support.

Speedster/Rush Hour is a nice little game that I strongly recommend. Controls are hard at first but you can get into it and have a lot of old school fun.

No matter how many times I tried, I was NEVER able to get first in Sega Rally, mainly because of the very first desert stage. That big curve at the end of the level is ridiculously hard to clear and pass the two cars ahead of you to get first.

IDK, but you're probably making mistakes earlier on the track. That curve is quite easy to clear IMO, so you're probably trying to do the impossible there due to earlier mistakes.
I'll post a video showing how to clear that first stage. Check this thread again tonight.

I am supposing you have tried all of the vehicles and not just the F1. The rest of the vehicle types was where I really grew an appreciation for the game. Keep in mind that I hated it at first, and didn't even buy a complete copy. I think it was about ten years later where I started playing the stock car and go kart and started to see it as a legitimate early racer because of those.

Sorry but the whole discussion was about the "main game" IMO and how it poorly compare to the other versions. The F1 car driving is a chore so the game is already dead IMO.
The other cars give you a very generic gameplay (unlike the extra modes in 32X version) that I really don't care about since there are tons of much better stuff to play on the PS1.

I think I said it to you in private, but Sega Rally is probably the only Saturn game I have tried to complete. There was a while where I was starting to find it boring because I kept finishing all four tracks without any effort. Today I'd have to spend an afternoon or something to play it that well. Because of that, Sega Rally is one of the few games I would call virtually perfect. Along with Virtual On and VOOT, Sega Rally is one of the few games that that really couldn't be better by adding more modes, characters, cars and tracks/levels.

It's fun to no end.

I don't really make a distinction between Arcade and Console games in regard to gameplay quality.

I think I made it unclear but I was talking about arcade and simulation gameplay comparison.

If some PS1 game had the same handling and excellent track design as Sega Rally but with more modes, tracks and cars I would consider it better. Test Drive V-Rally and Colin McRae really didn't do that for me. Maybe they are a better Rally simulation, but they are definitely not as easy to pick up and play.

V-Rally is very arcade, no simulation there.
Did you try Colin McRae Rally 2.0? It's a big improvement over the first one in all areas. But, anyway, simulation is not about "easy to pick up and play", that would be arcade gameplay definition, I guess.
When you mix those concepts you start to compare apples to oranges and that makes little to no sense IMO. You shouldn't blame a simulator for not being easy to pick up and play and nobody should blame Sega Rally for not damaging the cars... Different concepts, we should consider that in our analysis.

Colin McRae Rally is closer to the real competition 'cause, for an example, you have car damage... Much of the rally drama is about being able to be fast without completely wrecking your car in a single segment or keep pushing it when it's already heavily damaged. The tracks are also way more longer and complex, so it's very hard to memorize all the curves and you usually have to rely on the navigator tips and your driving skills, like int he real world. Stuff like that doesn't make Colin McRae Rally funnier than Sega Rally, by any means, but makes it far more realistic, like I said in my previous post.

I haven't played Mobil 1 at all, I will have to check it out sometime if I can find it. Older PC games aren't very easy to install in Windows 7 64-bit though.

Mobil 1 has an arcade mode that reminds me Sega Rally a lot in terms of controls but still has extra stuff like car damage and better physics.

I know that it runs perfectly in Windows 7 32-bit, not sure about the 64-bit but it is one of the least problematic old games.

All of these games control better than Saturn V.R. for sure. But I would still like to point out that Saturn V.R. is virtually a Saturn launch game and has more car types and tracks than other early PS1 racers.

I had just took your point about comparing it with the most popular PS1 franchises...
In terms of early games it's a bit more even but still goes in favor of PS1 IMO.

The only thing I can think of that comes close is High Velocity and Road and Track's Need for Speed. It seemed to me that development time needed to be spent in one place or the other back then because there was no real foundation. So, they either spent the time/money on refining the gameplay, or on more cars and tracks.

I agree about the development part but maybe you should check Motor Toon Grand Prix (this first game was only released in Japan). It's a 1994 PS1 game and has a lot to be explored.

Even Gran Turismo 1+2 don't play as well as Sega Rally for example.

I really don't know what you meant here. Maybe "not as easy"??? Because they are very different games.
Gran Turismo has far more complex physics and gameplay. A lot more simulation elements...
Probably the only thing that is kinda comparable to Gran Turismo games on the Saturn is Drift King '97.

Need for Speed 1 was awesome though, even though it is relatively obscure for a PS1 racer.

Yep.

Yeah, I haven't tried any of the Ridge Racers with a wheel or analog controls. I think their physics are only a slight upgrade from Pole Position though. I can't see how a wheel would make the car feel any less like a unicycle. It probably would make it easier to not turn on a dime and hit a wall though.

Ridge Racer is more about a drifting-driven car handling and you can't drift using a d-pad in those games.
The physics are quite poor, yes.

I haven't played the PS1 imports at all. My car nut roomate bought some later Nascar game on the Saturn though and even he couldn't stand it, we ended up playing Daytona CCE instead.

You know my opinion about that, right? US-only library discussions are not for me.
Saturn has just one NASCAR game, right? There are better options on the PS1 but the whole NASCAR series is mediocre.

Isn't Monaco Grand Prix originally an N64 game? The Dreamcast port plays like a full on simulation, it's awesome. I will have to remember Formula 1 if I see it. I am more keen on seeing what earlier titles achieved than the later ones.

Nope.

Monaco Grand Prix is a PC game, actually Monaco Grand Prix: Racing Simulation 2 is. It was a sequel to F1 Racing Simulation that was a PC exclusive IIRC. The success of the first game made Ubisoft port its sequel to several platforms, including the N64. Those games were very advanced for their time.

F1 Racing Championship was released first on consoles and was the 3rd game in the series. However, it was release on the PS1 prior to the N64 release. And both versions are not on par with the later ones released for the DC, PS2 and PC (and I'm not talking about the graphics).
The PC game was awesome and until some time ago there was people still making upgrades for it. It had much less flaws than the Monaco Grand Prix games, with much better AI, physics and superb graphics.

[StarMist]

RC de Go! is awesome. Great controls, great fun... I passed it at first since I prefer "real" racing games but it's a great title for sure.
Car and Driver Presents Grand Tour `98 is great but I'm looking forward to dump the Japanese version that actually has dual shock support.
Speedster/Rush Hour is a nice little game that I strongly recommend. Controls are hard at first but you can get into it and have a lot of old school fun.

Good to hear. Haven't played Rush Hour in a long time. What sort of controls do you consider hard? I think the punitive ('arcade' in the coinsucking sense) style that Sega uses much more problematic than most supposedly hard controls. Vanishing Point's are notoriously awful but I don't think really much harder than Sega Rally's--SR is a much better game though. VP does play a bit better on PS than DC though whilst the DC version seems more widely known.

I'll post a video showing how to clear that first stage. Check this thread again tonight.

Any chance you could post some kind of straight DL link that gets around youtube?

I agree about the development part but maybe you should check Motor Toon Grand Prix (this first game was only released in Japan). It's a 1994 PS1 game and has a lot to be explored.

I thought of mentiong Motor Toon my last post but was sure you knew it. However it got a worldwide release.

[j_factor]

I thought of mentiong Motor Toon my last post but was sure you knew it. However it got a worldwide release.

No, there's actually two of them in Japan. The first was released in Japan right after launch in December 1994, and was never brought out elsewhere. Motor Toon Grand Prix in the US is Motor Toon Grand Prix 2 in Japan. Just like with King's Field.