Short reviews of all games I have for a system: Saturn

[Bradcap1]

My second copy of Thunderstrike 2 just arrived. And the Mission Stick doesn't work on it either. Neither copy works on a model 1 or 2 Us Saturn. I don't want to make blanket statements like ABF but since my 3d controller doesn't work on it either I 'm having trouble believing that this game supports tbe Mission Stick. Can anyone out there verify this?

[A Black Falcon]

My second copy of Thunderstrike 2 just arrived. And the Mission Stick doesn't work on it either. Neither copy works on a model 1 or 2 Us Saturn. I don't want to make blanket statements like ABF but since my 3d controller doesn't work on it either I 'm having trouble believing that this game supports tbe Mission Stick. Can anyone out there verify this?

The game does not work with the 3D Controller in analog mode. Its only analog support is for the Mission Stick. What do you mean by "it doesn't work"? The Mission Stick should work to some extent (that is, as a "d-pad" at least) with almost everything; I only have a couple of Saturn games that won't work at all with it (Daytona CE, maybe one of the Virtua Cop games, not much else)... but ThunderStrike 2 has analog support and up/down movement on the throttle wheel, so it's defnitely got Mission Stick support. But again, what do you mean by that it doesn't work?

(Oh, and you did make sure that the Mssion Stick is hooked up correctly and all of its turbo switches are off, yes? That causes issues in some games, I think.)

[Bradcap1]

It doesn't register at all. The game just remains in attract mode. I've tried every button and they have no effect. I've tried two copies of the game on a model 1 and model 2 Saturn to no effect. The 3d controller also has no effect even in + mode. I don't think the mission stick is defective ss Panzer Dragoon Zwei, Sky Target, Wing Arms, and Afterburner II on Sega Ages works fine. This is certainly puzzling.

[Barone]

Have you tried to plug a regular controller in port 1 and the mission stick in port 2? Some games have this "approach" for special controllers. Maybe you need to reach a menu with controller options using the regular controller for then be able to use the mission stick.

[EricShaun]

I LOVED the Saturn.

All my mates had playstations but i fought the good fight... until it died.

[Bradcap1]

Have you tried to plug a regular controller in port 1 and the mission stick in port 2? Some games have this "approach" for special controllers. Maybe you need to reach a menu with controller options using the regular controller for then be able to use the mission stick.

Thanks for the reply. I tried it and no luck. It just won't recognize the mission stick. I tried it on Panzer Dragoon 1 and adjusted tbe controls to have all the buttons shoot as a control to see if I could fault the mission stick but they all worked.
I will give credit to Falcon on Atari's Greatest hits. It works great on Centipede and Battlezone. Not sure if I like it better than a controller for Missile Command. Wish we had a trackball.

[A Black Falcon]

Thanks for the reply. I tried it and no luck. It just won't recognize the mission stick.

That's really, really weird. I know it works... are you in the US? My copy's US, of course.

I tried it on Panzer Dragoon 1 and adjusted tbe controls to have all the buttons shoot as a control to see if I could fault the mission stick but they all worked.

The Mission Stick is fantastic in the Panzer Dragoon games, yeah. Best way to play them.

I will give credit to Falcon on Atari's Greatest hits. It works great on Centipede and Battlezone. Not sure if I like it better than a controller for Missile Command. Wish we had a trackball.

Battlezone? You mean Super Breakout, yes? Super Breakout is analog, but I think Battlezone seemed digital to me... but yeah, I think it's good in Missile Command and Centipede (not as good as a trackball, but much better than gamepads are for either one!), but don't like it in Super Breakout. Of course, I don't like that game in general; it's far too slow, with how it only hits one brick per hit like 99% of the time. I much prefer Arkanoid...

[Bradcap1]

That's really, really weird. I know it works... are you in the US? My copy's US, of course.


The Mission Stick is fantastic in the Panzer Dragoon games, yeah. Best way to play them.



Battlezone? You mean Super Breakout, yes? Super Breakout is analog, but I think Battlezone seemed digital to me... but yeah, I think it's good in Missile Command and Centipede (not as good as a trackball, but much better than gamepads are for either one!), but don't like it in Super Breakout. Of course, I don't like that game in general; it's far too slow, with how it only hits one brick per hit like 99% of the time. I much prefer Arkanoid...

I am in the US trying this with US Saturns. I could try it with my JP Saturn and an Action Replay but the cartridge slot is iffy and I have the 4Mb ram cart in place. I don't want to remove it because getting it to set just right is a pain.
I'm not really knowledgeable in determining digital vs analog but Battlezone certainly handled better for me with the mission stick as opposed to the standard controller. It could just be personal preference. It would be nice if Battlezone was compatible with the twin stick.
*EDIT*
I just tried Battlezone with Twin Sticks. They work! You just have to switch the controls to "Two Hand" in the game options. Now it controls just like the arcade.

[A Black Falcon]

Huh, Battlezone supports the Twin Stick? That's interesting... but yeah, it's very strange that you don't seem to have gotten ThunderStrike 2 working with the Mission Stick.


NEW 12/12 - Having fewer reviews to write seems to lead to longer reviews. Hey, at least they're more detailed!

Fighting Vipers - Review was updated and rewritten to reflect the new info (the mode with actual 3d movement). See it in the first post. The other original reviews are unchanged; the new reviews are the five below.

Jurassic Park: The Lost World - One player, password save, has not-actually-analog 3D Controller and Mission Stick support. . The Lost World for PSX and Saturn is a 2.5d platform-action game. In the game, you play as five different of characters, including two humans and three dinosaurs, each in their own dedicated levels. There are 30 levels total; each character type does not have the same number of stages, and you play all levels with each character successively, so you do not switch back and forth. This concept is interesting, and I like the variety. You can't choose which to play as, unfortunately; it's all entirely linear. Too bad. Still, the game's okay, though it could have been a lot better. Each character type plays differently, but the controls are decent. Some things are hard to figure out, as the game does not do a good job of explaining things unless you read the manual, though. Make sure to Eat things with the dinosaurs if you want to heal! Mission objectives are usually simple, but this game is occasionally confusing, and level designs are not always great. Also, the controls can be slippery depending on dinosaur type. As with Sonic 3D Blast, you can use the analog stick in this game, but don't expect proportional analog controls; they're digital. Still, better than nothing, and you can't do that on PS1 for sure. The game has decent-quality 3d graphics and overall looks nice for a polygon game on the system. The game does not have amazing graphics, but it looks solid, and better than plenty of polygonal games from the era. Still, overall this is a just slightly above average game. While the parts all work, none are outstanding; the controls are okay but could be better, the polygon graphics are alright but not the best, and the basic gameplay simple and standard, varied characters and occasional confusion aside. Overall, this is a mediocre to okay platform action game with some interesting elements, but also some issues. Try it if you like the genre, but it deserves the moderate to low scores it got. Note that while the game does not have saving, it does have cheat codes that go straight to each of the five characters' sections of the game, and also codes for image galleries of the various dinosaurs and such too. There's also an Easy mode code. I'd recommend using the codes as a save system replacement. Also on Playstation.

Lunacy - One player, has saving. Lunacy is a good first-person, CG-rendered graphic adventure game from System Sacom, the developers of the two Mansion of Hidden Souls games for Sega CD and Saturn (and yes, they are different games; the Saturn one is not a port). There are even some references to those past games in this one, which is cool. With good enough graphics, an interesting story, and great music, the title impresses for its time. The game was brought to the US by Atlus, in one of only two US Saturn releases, and is one of Atlus's few, and perhaps first, graphic adventure releases. Unfortunately, the Atlus name also means that this game sells for more than either Mansion of Hidden Souls title does. In this two disc adventure, you explore around a thinly populated city solving puzzles and getting involved in a complex mystery. The game is somewhat pricey, but I was lucky to find a slightly-below-ebay-value copy locally for $30. And yes, it is complete -- and that's a good thing, because the manual is very helpful, and the map that comes with the game invaluable. Either use the one that comes with the game, or find one online. You'll need it. The game has good graphics for a Saturn FMV game; it has the usual pixelization, but the CG is good quality, as expected from the Mansion of Hidden Souls team. The game has simple controls, much like those gmaes -- left or right to rotate to points you can move to or interact with, forward to move or interact. Forward again on a zoom-in screen will pick up an item, if there's one to pick up. X opens your inventory, so that you can try using use items on the current screen. Yeah, no pixel hunting here, as with their previous adventure games, just streamlined controls. While that makes the game easier than it would be, there is still enough challenge here that it will take a while. One oddity is that you often need to be told you can do something before it will work, so talk to everyone before giving up on a puzzle. You do have a real inventory this time after all, and the resulting inventory puzzles; even if all you have to do is use the correct item on the correct screen, it will not always be obvious. The story can be confusing for sure, but given the title, that should be expected. I don't want to spoil much, but your character is on a quest to find his lost memory, and a mysterious city as well. You can re-watch video clips you've seen, which is helpful. The game starts out easier, but gets tougher by disc two. While disc one is linear, disc two also has more branching paths, and the game has multiple endings depending on your actions. Overall, this game is the best of the three US-released System Sacom CG FMV adventure games; Mansion of Hidden Souls for SCD is a good game, but it's short and simple, and it moves much slower too. The Saturn sequel moves quicker, but still is short. Lunacy is a longer, more challenging game with no visible loading, and a very good sense of atmosphere too particularly thanks to that great, lulling music. Lunacy is a pretty good game definitely recommended for any adventure game fans! Saturn exclusive.

Maximum Force - Two players, has saving, has 3D Controller and Stunner (light gun) support. Maximum Force is a mediocre port of the Midway arcade game. The game runs in the Area 51 engine, but with new visuals and enemies to shoot, so like that game, this one has prerendered video backdrops with live-action actors inserted on top for you to shoot. It has an over-the-top crime-fighting theme, like a light-gun take on NARC or something (but slightly sci-fi). The enemy descriptions in the manual are silly stuff; it's worth reading. Maximum Force is an average at best game. The shooting is okay, but nothing great; there are a lot of enemies and destructible things to shoot, but the bland visuals, issues described below, and dated graphical style have not aged nearly as well as the Virtua Cop games, for instance. The game is short, too, with only three levels to fight through, and the first two don't even have bosses! There are 35 bonus rooms to find, by destroying the right things in the environment, but still, the game is short. Still, the game is okay, even if it's definitely not good. Maximum Force is great with the lightgun of course, if you have one and a compatible TV. The game also has 3D Controller support, though the box and manual don't mention it anywhere; the analog cursor is slightly better than the digital one, but it's still no match for a gun. Still, as the PS1 version doesn't have analog gamepad support, it is one advantage over it. Also, I'm not sure, but the PS1 version does not have a save icon on the case, so I don't know if it saves. The Saturn version, however, does support saving your scores and settings. However, in terms of visuals, the PS1 version is better. You see, the Saturn version runs in a window, just like with the Saturn version of Area 51. This time the border is smaller than Saturn Area 51's border was, but it is still there, and sizable. It is annoying, but you get used to it; the bigger issue is the blocky Saturn-quality video. The PS1 version has clearer video thanks to its better video encoder. Also, the Saturn version costs more to buy than the PS1 version; it's at least $15. It's unfortunate that Midway didn't put more effort into its (few) Saturn ports, but still, this is better than nothing at least, and it is nice that Midway released it considering its fall '97 release date. Also, it is something more to use with the gun; as good as they are, and they are good, Sega only made three light gun games itself for the Saturn. Considering the game's issues, it's probably not worth getting, even though it is stupidly amusing while it lasts. only get this if you find it cheap, are wanting more to play with your Saturn light gun, or are a Saturn fan. I got it because I just can't resist, and would rather play Saturn than PS1 anyway. And I don't have the PS1 version, so it's not a duplicate. I do like the analog support and saving. Also in arcades and on Playstation.

Sonic 3D Blast - One player, has not-actually-analog 3D Controller and Mission Stick support. A somewhat controversial game ever since its release, Sonic 3D Blast for the Saturn is a port of the Genesis game of the same name that Sega quickly made when Sonic X-Treme slipped out of 1996 and thus sadly was cancelled. I think I like the original Genesis game more -- and yes, I do like it -- but this is a fine version, with improved graphics and nice Sonic 2 style but polygonal 3d bonus stages. There's one key problem though: they didn't put in a save system! Idiots... Apart from that though this is a good port of a good game. The game is an isometric platformer, and while it has the usual pitfalls of the genre, most notably that jumps can be hard to judge, the game does not have pits of death, so the design was made with the constraints of the isometric viewpoint in mind, which is good. The controls are the same as the Genesis version, except as I listed above, you can use the analog stick on the 3D Controller if you wish; though actual control is still digital (no proportional movement, 8 directions only), but in this kind of game a stick can help even so. In each level, you have to find five Flickies in each half of the level, then fight the boss. Most flickies are found by defeating enemies which are holding them, which means that the enemies are spread out. The game is slow paced, and not as fast as most Sonic titles, but still, exploring the levels, avoiding obstacles, navigating the stages, and looking for killable enemies. There's some good challenge here, and also good level design as well. I know many people dislike the perspective and speed, but the level designs are good regardless. The main issue is that things are spread out a bit, but I think it's a challenging enough game as-is, considering the challenges of the viewpoint. This Saturn version's improved graphics look nice as well, and those bonus stages, while they play quite differently from the Genesis ones (and I did like those bonus stages), do look great. This is the only version of 3D Blast with polygonal bonus stages. However, the PC version, while it's got 2d sprites in the bonus stages (they play like the 3D Blast ones, but aren't polygonal), and some serious issues running on many modern PCs, has one thing this version doesn't have: saving. Yes, you can save your progress in that version, finally. With how long and slow paced this game is, it's really inexcusable that Sega and Traveller's Tales force you to play the whole thing in one sitting; this game is too long for that. There is a level-skip cheatcode, but that's not quite the same, and doesn't save crystals of course so you would need additional codes for that. Really there's no defensible reason for this Saturn version to not let you save, except for that Sega, when this game came out in 1996, still hadn't grasped the idea that games should all actually have saving in them, at least in password form, better on-cart or in-system. Nintendo had gotten that back in about 1992-1993, but for Sega, I'd say it wasn't until '97 or '98 that they finally got the hint... it's annoying. Also, this really is a 16-bit up-port, and not a fully new game. Still though, it's decently good, even if it's definitely not the Sonic platformer I wish we had on the Saturn. I mean, I like 3D Blast well enough, but at its core its' a Genesis game, while X-Treme would have been something new... and with how the videos of X-Treme remind me of Bug!, and as anyone who read this thread probably remembers I love that game, I think it'd have probably been great, too. Oh well... Also on Genesis and PC.

Soviet Strike - One player, has saving, has 3D Controller and Mission Stick support. Soviet Strike for Saturn is an enhanced port of the Playstation version of this fourth game in EA's Strike series of helicopter combat/sim games. As with all Strike titles, the game is played from an overhead perspective. This time the graphics are polygonal, but you still move on a flat plane above that 3d world, so it's effectively 2.5d. The game has nice graphics for 3d visuals from 1996; the game does look ugly, with the usual texture issues and pixelated textures you expect, but still it looks better than some other 3d games did in 1996-1997. The controls are good, and are the most improved thing versus the Playstation original -- while the PS1 version was digital control only, this one adds both Mission Stick and 3D Controller analog support, and both work great. Honestly I think that the game controls a bit better with the 3D Controller than the Mission Stick, since with the Mission Stick you have to push it so far to move at all that it gets a little annoying, but at least it is analog, and the feel of playing it with a joystick is hard to match. But for the easiest controls, use the 3D Controller in analog mode. It's great that they added analog controls in. The other major addition is that the game has several Saturn-exclusive enemy and weapon types to use. Not bad. It did release after the PS1 version, but at least EA put some effort into this port. I never liked the first three Strike games all that much, but this one is better. It's similar, and still has some of the issues that I disliked the originals for, but it is improved enough that I somewhat like the series this time. The most important thing to know about this game is that while the combat is actioney, as you fly around, shoot enemy tanks, soldiers, towers, or what have you, and pick up hostages, you need to be prepared, so make sure to spend a lot of time in the pause menu. The pause menu in this game has a large amount of information in it, and learning a lot of it is vital. First, because this game was on a CD, there are of course live-action video FMVs. Some come between stages, or at mission objective points, but there are also live-action or CGI FMVs in the pause menu, one for every single item there. Every objective, enemy type, weapon, what have you has a short video explaining it. They are not all required, but it's amusing to watch at least some of them. Beyond that though, the pause menu also has a great map of the level, explanations of what to do for each of the many objectives on each map, and various displays you can put on that map. Displays include showing the locations of all enemies by type, showing where mission objectives (hostages, buildings you have to destroy, what have you, sorted by type) are, where allied soldiers and refueling stations are located, and more. Memorize this information! It is quite hard to tell enemies from allies apart while in the game, so know which ones are your friends. Also make sure to know where the refueling station(s) are, because you will periodically need a refill. And the mission objectives are not always easy or straightforward, so learn that stuff too. And while you have a couple of extra lives (replacement helicopters), if you mess up and fail a critical objective, it's game over, start from the beginning of the map again. Yes, this is a complex game, as usual in the series. There's no saving between checkpoints in each campaign, either, as usual in the franchise. Sure, there are only five maps, but it will take quite a while to get good enough at each one to be able to beat the whole thing in one try, so there's plenty of play value here if you have the patience to stick with it. It is quite frustrating when I lose several missions into one of the maps, but the game is well designed and good enough that it is worth playing, I think. This is the better version of a pretty good game. While the series started on the Genesis, this was the last Strike game for a Sega platform because Nuclear Strike was released for PS1 (1997), and N64 and PC several years later, but not Saturn or, of course, Dreamcast given EA's refusal to support that system. Pick this one up; it's overlooked, not too expensive, and worth it, particularly if you want a challenge and a game that requires some thought mixed in with its action, and have an analog controller. Also on Playstation.

[TrekkiesUnite118]

Will you please quit calling Sega's 3D fighters 2.5D fighters? We've already been through this with you countless times, but it's pretty stupid and misleading for you to keep calling them 2.5D just because they don't have sidestepping. The games move operate in a true 3D environment with 3D positioning having a vital effect on gameplay. 2.5D is Street Fighter IV. None of Sega's 3D Arcade fighters play like that. You can't just change genre definitions just so you can put the competition to games you like in worse light.

[StarMist]

Jurassic Park: The Lost World - One player, password save {{...}} Note that while the game does not have saving, it does have cheat codes that go straight to each of the five characters' sections of the game, and also codes for image galleries of the various dinosaurs and such too. There's also an Easy mode code. I'd recommend using the codes as a save system replacement. Also on Playstation.

Lost World saves -- 4 blocks.

[A Black Falcon]

Darnit, I'll fix that! I thought I might have been forgetting something with that review... it's the least interesting of those five games, so I put the least time into writing the review, I guess. That is always a mistake, for sure. But I'd been playing Lunacy, and didn't want to have to take the big step down and go through some mediocrity with The Lost World to check it again versus the review... ah well, I will redo that review.

Will you please quit calling Sega's 3D fighters 2.5D fighters? We've already been through this with you countless times, but it's pretty stupid and misleading for you to keep calling them 2.5D just because they don't have sidestepping. The games move operate in a true 3D environment with 3D positioning having a vital effect on gameplay. 2.5D is Street Fighter IV. None of Sega's 3D Arcade fighters play like that. You can't just change genre definitions just so you can put the competition to games you like in worse light.

If you can't move in 3d, it's not a fully 3d fighting game. And if you can't figure out that I'm not saying that they're just like SFIV, well, you didn't even read the reviews, did you? I specifically say that it is not. And of course now I also mention how FV has a full 3d movement mode, even if it has an issue as described.

But seriously, I know this argument is going in circles which is why I dropped it the last time, but the idea that a game without 3d movement should be considered a fully 3d game, gameplay-wise, is just silly for me. For games it's the gameplay that determines the dimensionality of a game, and VF1/2, DoA1, FV's Arcade/Arrange modes, and LB all do not have 3d movement. Of course there are some different moves for different 3d positions, and I say that, but you can't actually shift that with anything other than moves. That is not the same as being able to actually just move around. They absolutely should be in a separate category from fighting games with 3d movement, the only question is what that category should be called. I decided on "mostly 2.5d" as a decent enough title for the category, but sure, it could be something else instead, as long as it separates them from the other types. And for anyone who again forgets that I'm not saying "3d movement automatically makes games better", go read my Criticom review (or Dark Rift, in the N64 thread), and go to the PS1 thread and see how much I like DoA... and FV, to a slightly lesser but still significant degree, for that matter. On that note, in the PS1 thread I think I called DoA a "2.5/3d fighting game". As in, it's somewhere in between.

[TrekkiesUnite118]

The games do have full 3D movement. Just because you can't execute the moves to pull it off because you suck at the game doesn't take away from the fact that they are fully 3D games. 2.5D means Street Fighter IV, nothing more nothing less. The game's play in 3D, collision is calculated 3D, and your position along the Z-axis plays a huge role in how the game plays. That's pretty much the definition of 3D gameplay. Sidestepping is simply an overrated dodge move that serves no purpose in a real fight which is what Sega's fighters try to emulate. Being able to sidestep != 3D gameplay.

[sheath]

Black Falcon is WRONG WRONG WRONG about his definition of 3D fighting, and he can never ever EVER admit he is wrong.

[A Black Falcon]

Bah, couldn't we talk about the new games reviewed instead?

The games do have full 3D movement. Just because you can't execute the moves to pull it off because you suck at the game doesn't take away from the fact that they are fully 3D games. 2.5D means Street Fighter IV, nothing more nothing less.

Generally true, but these games need some term to denote that they are not games with 3d movement. And of course I always specifically said that I do not mean 2.5d like SFIV.

The game's play in 3D,

Partially. Not entirely. Movement is on a 2d plane.

collision is calculated 3D, and your position along the Z-axis plays a huge role in how the game plays. That's pretty much the definition of 3D gameplay. Sidestepping is simply an overrated dodge move that serves no purpose in a real fight which is what Sega's fighters try to emulate. Being able to sidestep != 3D gameplay.

That's absurd, sidestepping is a centrally important game mechanic in any decent 3d fighter, and it was mentioned by someone earlier in this thread that yes, it is used in real fights too. (And I guess this means that you dislike VFs 3 through 5, then, since they have 3d movement? And anyway, all I need to do is play FV in Arcade or Arrange modes, versus Saturn, to see how much of a difference being able to move around in 3d makes in a game like this: it makes a difference.)

As for that whole Toshinden argument, the point that was trying to be made is that Toshinden has 3d movement but the moves themselves are all on flat planes, while VF has 2d movement but the moves move on 3d planes and can affect movement, so they're both 3d fighters overall, I guess? The problem I have with that is, as I've said all along, that the idea that move-affected 3d movement is the same thing as movement-affected 3d movement is just not something I agree with, at all. They are absolutely different categories of games.

Anyway though, as I've said before, fighting games are probably the genre that improved the most between the 5th and 6th generations. It's amazing how massively the genre improved even just going to the Dreamcast... there's a reason why Evil Zone on PS1 is my favorite 3d fighting game of that whole generation, it doesn't play like the usual 5th gen 2.5d, VF1-style, or fully 3d fighters all do!

Black Falcon is WRONG WRONG WRONG about his definition of 3D fighting, and he can never ever EVER admit he is wrong.

The two categories of games are obviously different.