Short reviews of all games I have for a system: Saturn

[Thenewguy]

Daytona went up against ridge racer, which had better graphics.

Doesn't Daytona have more impressive numbers of cars on the road?, and Ridge Racer 1 is also much easier, Daytona aggressively makes you sink money into it to practice every corner.

and anyway, why are we still talking about arcade games? and now Ridge Racer 1 no less, a game which has as little content as Daytona, and which Black Falcon has already said he hates on multiple occasions.

[StarMist]

Why isn't this thread titled "Because the Saturn is great"? Shame on you.

More like "Because the Mission Stick is great: short reviews of all the games I have for it".

@ A Black Falcon: pick up Wing Arms, that should be to your taste. Also if you're into comparisons (PC/PS) snag Darklight Conflict if you see it around and it does support your stick.

[A Black Falcon]

Daytona still IS a top grossing Arcade game though. Most major Arcades in the country have tons of them linked up and running still to this day and they are always packed with people waiting to play.

Maybe worldwide, but I'd think that the #1 in the US would be the Cruis'n series... particularly if we include the three Fast & The Furious games too, which of course are identical gameplay-wise and are also by the same lead designer, that series absolutely has to be #1 in the US. You still see Cruis'n and F&TF games; I doubt there are many arcades in America that don't have at least one of them. Don't know if I've ever seen one. In comparison, Dayona isn't an omnipresent game, and its sequel Daytona 2 is quite uncommon.

Doesn't Daytona have more impressive numbers of cars on the road?, and Ridge Racer 1 is also much easier, Daytona aggressively makes you sink money into it to practice every corner.

and anyway, why are we still talking about arcade games? and now Ridge Racer 1 no less, a game which has as little content as Daytona, and which Black Falcon has already said he hates on multiple occasions.

Less content than Daytona, you mean. Why people consider the PS1 version of Ridge Racer, with its 1 1/3 tracks and equally minimalist feature set, somehow such a great game while Saturn Daytona is "disappointing" I doubt I will ever really understand... Saturn Daytona is a far better game!

More like "Because the Mission Stick is great: short reviews of all the games I have for it".

Heh... that's one element of the list at least, that is true.

@ A Black Falcon: pick up Wing Arms, that should be to your taste. Also if you're into comparisons (PC/PS) snag Darklight Conflict if you see it around and it does support your stick.

I'm lukewarm on Wing Arms, modern-style flight combat games have never really been my thing, but Darklight Conflict I'm definitely very interested in getting.

[TheSonicRetard]

Doesn't Daytona have more impressive numbers of cars on the road?, and Ridge Racer 1 is also much easier, Daytona aggressively makes you sink money into it to practice every corner.

and anyway, why are we still talking about arcade games? and now Ridge Racer 1 no less, a game which has as little content as Daytona, and which Black Falcon has already said he hates on multiple occasions.

er, because of your line of arguments. First you claimed that saturn users say they play the shit out of Daytona to memorize each part of each track because there is no competition... but, given that daytona crushed all it's competition in the arcades (where it did have heavy competition) that clearly isn't the case - people played the shit out of daytona even when there were other games to play.

Ok then, you said. That's because Daytona was a pretty game, and people will play anything that's pretty.... except ridge racer was a much prettier game. So, if people were playing Daytona for the graphics, then shouldn't Ridge Racer have been a much better selling game?

But, in any case, you inadvertently brought it back around, as you said people play Daytona USA more because it requires more time to learn the tracks, hence its popularity - our original argument.

[TheSonicRetard]

Maybe worldwide, but I'd think that the #1 in the US would be the Cruis'n series... particularly if we include the three Fast & The Furious games too, which of course are identical gameplay-wise and are also by the same lead designer, that series absolutely has to be #1 in the US. You still see Cruis'n and F&TF games; I doubt there are many arcades in America that don't have at least one of them. Don't know if I've ever seen one. In comparison, Dayona isn't an omnipresent game, and its sequel Daytona 2 is quite uncommon.

LOL @ moving goal posts. There is no breakdown by region available anywhere online, but I can guarantee you that, if we did break it down by region, Golden Tee would at least dominate Cruisin' USA. Every bar in america has had a Golden Tee machine since '97.

[TrekkiesUnite118]

I see far more Daytona Machines still in service than I do Cruis'n Machines. At amusement Parks it's Daytona Machines that you see taking up an entire wall of the Arcade, not Cruis'n machines. At places like Dave and Busters it's again Daytona machines you see taking up entire walls of the Arcade area, not Cruis'n Machines. Sure you may see 1 Cruis'n machine or one of it's spin off / descendants in places, in major arcades and amusement areas you are going to see Daytona and other Sega Racers more likely than you will a Cruis'n Machine. Heck the two major movie theaters in my home town alone have an Outrun 2 Machine, a Sega GT machine, a Sega Rally Machine and a Daytona USA machine in each of them. I do see Cruis'n Machines around, but where I see them are in Wal-Marts, Pizza Huts, and random public places where they sit and collect dust.

Now if you combine every single part of the series together you might get a higher number of machines sold than Daytona but if we throw in all of Sega's Arcade Racers that might change as well. Comparing Daytona USA to Cruis'n USA I'd say Daytona is probably the better selling of the two both world wide and in the US.

[A Black Falcon]

I see far more Daytona Machines still in service than I do Cruis'n Machines. At amusement Parks it's Daytona Machines that you see taking up an entire wall of the Arcade, not Cruis'n machines. At places like Dave and Busters it's again Daytona machines you see taking up entire walls of the Arcade area, not Cruis'n Machines. Sure you may see 1 Cruis'n machine or one of it's spin off / descendants in places, in major arcades and amusement areas you are going to see Daytona and other Sega Racers more likely than you will a Cruis'n Machine. Heck the two major movie theaters in my home town alone have an Outrun 2 Machine, a Sega GT machine, a Sega Rally Machine and a Daytona USA machine in each of them. I do see Cruis'n Machines around, but where I see them are in Wal-Marts, Pizza Huts, and random public places where they sit and collect dust.

Now if you combine every single part of the series together you might get a higher number of machines sold than Daytona but if we throw in all of Sega's Arcade Racers that might change as well. Comparing Daytona USA to Cruis'n USA I'd say Daytona is probably the better selling of the two both world wide and in the US.

Worldwide, sure. Cruis'n USA was by far the most popular in the US, after all. But in the US? I don't know which one is more popular, even just between Daytona and the first Cruis'n USA; both are certainly among the most popular arcade games ever, here.

As for your personal experiences there, that doesn't count for much. Like, I don't think I've seen a Daytona machine in years, while I have seen Cruis'n USA pretty recently... and it's been a long, long time since I saw a Daytona 8-cab setup. You do not "always" see Daytona; that's just nto true. I do almost always see a Cruis'n or F&TF cab, though. Now, yes, Sega racing games are popular, certainly. You usually will see some Sega racing game or other in arcades, no question there. But Midway's racers, and Raw Thrills' followups to them, are every bit as popular in the US, and, I would say, are even more successful overall. I don't know the actual sales figures, though. Are arcade sales figures available anywhere, or do we not know?

LOL @ moving goal posts. There is no breakdown by region available anywhere online, but I can guarantee you that, if we did break it down by region, Golden Tee would at least dominate Cruisin' USA. Every bar in america has had a Golden Tee machine since '97.

Fair point, that series would surely have to be on the short list of most successful arcade games in the US.

er, because of your line of arguments. First you claimed that saturn users say they play the shit out of Daytona to memorize each part of each track because there is no competition... but, given that daytona crushed all it's competition in the arcades (where it did have heavy competition) that clearly isn't the case - people played the shit out of daytona even when there were other games to play.

Daytona crushed its competition? You're overstating things there...

Ok then, you said. That's because Daytona was a pretty game, and people will play anything that's pretty.... except ridge racer was a much prettier game. So, if people were playing Daytona for the graphics, then shouldn't Ridge Racer have been a much better selling game?

Ridge Racer was a much better selling game (on consoles), though, unfortunately.

But, in any case, you inadvertently brought it back around, as you said people play Daytona USA more because it requires more time to learn the tracks, hence its popularity - our original argument.

No, I thought he said that people learned Daytona because the Saturn doesn't have all that many great racing games (a true statement), so Saturn fans had no choice but to play Daytona and Sega Rally...

[TheSonicRetard]

Daytona crushed its competition? You're overstating things there...

It's the highest grossing arcade game of all time. I'm not over stating anything.

Ridge Racer was a much better selling game (on consoles), though, unfortunately.

Game X exclusively releases on the best selling console of that generation outsells Game Y which exclusively released on the worst selling console of that generation? Consider my mind blown.

No, I thought he said that people learned Daytona because the Saturn doesn't have all that many great racing games (a true statement), so Saturn fans had no choice but to play Daytona and Sega Rally...

Which falls apart when you realize that people ALSO played it in the arcades to a similar degree, where there were tons of great racing games. Arcade goers had a wide choice of games to play. They, instead, chose to spend their time sinking more quarters into Daytona USA than any other game ever created.

[TrekkiesUnite118]

Go to an Amusement Park Arcade or something like a Dave and Busters. Better yet go to a real Arcade. You will see Daytona Machines in those places, I guarantee it. As I said sure you will see Cruis'n machines in places like WalMart and something like a Chuckie Cheeses or a Pizza Hut, but they typically sit and collect dust more than anything. If you are going to throw in Fast and Furious machines then can we throw in Sega Rally, Sega GT, Outrun and any other Sega Arcade racer we can think of?

You're basically manipulating the argument to make Daytona look less popular. You are comparing one Arcade Racer to an entire franchise here. That's like saying Street Fighter II isn't that popular because you see more Tekken 1-6 machines out there. It's a silly argument at best. You're comparing the total amount of machines for 1 game vs the total amount of machines for multiple games. That's a skewed argument right there.

If you are going to allow that kind of a defense then I might as well say Ocarina of Time isn't popular and didn't sell well because most likely the entire Saturn Library sold more units combined than Ocarina of Time did.

[Thenewguy]

because of your line of arguments. First you claimed that saturn users say they play the shit out of Daytona to memorize each part of each track because there is no competition... but, given that daytona crushed all it's competition in the arcades (where it did have heavy competition) that clearly isn't the case

Again with the arcade, jesus.

People play more of any great home game after a fortnight of owning it than they spend on an arcade machine after like an entire year. Playing a ton of a game by arcades standards is paltry amounts by home standards.

people played the shit out of daytona even when there were other games to play.

Other arcade games to play which were similar in content, had similarly impressive graphics, and were similarly well suited to short plays, which is all irrelevant to the home market and Saturn Daytona.

Ok then, you said. That's because Daytona was a pretty game, and people will play anything that's pretty.... except ridge racer was a much prettier game. So, if people were playing Daytona for the graphics, then shouldn't Ridge Racer have been a much better selling game?

1# I never said that abput Daytona, it was a generalised statement.
2# I already stated Daytona has other reasons for making money over Ridge Racer
3# Ridge Racer is less impressive in some aspects, such as car count.

But, in any case, you inadvertently brought it back around, as you said people play Daytona USA more because it requires more time to learn the tracks, hence its popularity - our original argument.

More time to memorise a few tracks, which is good for an arcade game that you play for short bursts, and good for earning money for arcade operators, but poor for a home game where you get infinite credits, and 10 times the amount of gameplay time.

[Black_Tiger]

I don't go to bars, but everywhere else I see Daytona USA arcades and in use. I occassionally see Cruisin' USA arcades from time to time in places where people don't pkay any of the games there. But even though my arcade-crazy small hometown actually got Cruisin'n USA when it came out and I always notice it whenever I've come across one over the years... To this day, I have NEVER witnessed anyone actually playing one. This has always stood out to me, as has the fact that I always see people not only playing Daytona USA to this day, but screaming and laughing and having as much fun as I have ever seen people have while playing arcades.

[Thenewguy]

I've never seen a Cruisin' arcade machine in Britain in my entire life.

[A Black Falcon]

I don't go to bars, but everywhere else I see Daytona USA arcades and in use. I occassionally see Cruisin' USA arcades from time to time in places where people don't pkay any of the games there. But even though my arcade-crazy small hometown actually got Cruisin'n USA when it came out and I always notice it whenever I've come across one over the years... To this day, I have NEVER witnessed anyone actually playing one. This has always stood out to me, as has the fact that I always see people not only playing Daytona USA to this day, but screaming and laughing and having as much fun as I have ever seen people have while playing arcades.

Now that's biased... and I mean your obvious massive bias of course. I don't think there's any need to say anything else to this.

I've never seen a Cruisin' arcade machine in Britain in my entire life.

Come to the US, you'll find either them or F&TF machines just about everywhere you find arcade machines.

Go to an Amusement Park Arcade or something like a Dave and Busters. Better yet go to a real Arcade. You will see Daytona Machines in those places, I guarantee it. As I said sure you will see Cruis'n machines in places like WalMart and something like a Chuckie Cheeses or a Pizza Hut, but they typically sit and collect dust more than anything. If you are going to throw in Fast and Furious machines then can we throw in Sega Rally, Sega GT, Outrun and any other Sega Arcade racer we can think of?

If htey play exactly like Daytona, sure. Otherwise no. I mean, I didn't mention all six/seven games (Cruis'n plus F&TF arcade machines) just because they're a series, but also because they all play nearly identically, as far as the core gameplay goes. All of them are based on the formula set by Cruis'n USA.

In comparison, the only Sega games based on the Daytona gameplay model are what? Daytona 2 and maybe also Super GT/Scud Race? Sure, you could include both of those along with Daytona, but that's it, pretty much. And those two games aren't Daytona popular for sure, and don't have home releases either. So regardless of whether Daytona sold better than any individual Cruis'n style game in the US -- it's certainly possible, though your own personal observations do NOT prove it, that's for sure -- the fact remains that Cruis'n was the more successful title in the long run, and that franchise as a whole has absolutely got to be the most successful racing game franchise ever in American arcades.

I assume that your problem with that is that you, like a lot of people, dislike Cruis'n, yes? Well, they're successful arcade games for a reason -- they're great fun in short bursts. The home console releases are okay to good, in my opinion, but they do make better arcade games certainly.

You're basically manipulating the argument to make Daytona look less popular. You are comparing one Arcade Racer to an entire franchise here. That's like saying Street Fighter II isn't that popular because you see more Tekken 1-6 machines out there. It's a silly argument at best. You're comparing the total amount of machines for 1 game vs the total amount of machines for multiple games. That's a skewed argument right there.

A franchise which, as I said above, is successful because it is popular. And Cruis'n has had lasting success too in arcades; the last F&TF game was 5-6 years ago, but still, those three games, and the three Cruis'n games, are still everywhere in the arcades... point is, I think the fact that it created a successful franchise matters. Daytona was a massive hit, but didn't really create a franchise, for whatever reason... apart from those arcade-only releases of Daytona 2 and Sega Super GT it's been only ports of the original, as far as home systems are concerned. Maybe you'd say it was so perfect that it doesn't need a sequel, but still...

(On a related note though, yes, I'd still love to see home ports of Super GT and Daytona 2. Come on, Sega.)

As for your point about skewed comparisons though, I'd love to directly compare Cruis'n USA sales to Daytona, but as I said before, I don't know if numbers are available for either game. Are they, particularly for the Cruis'n games?

If you are going to allow that kind of a defense then I might as well say Ocarina of Time isn't popular and didn't sell well because most likely the entire Saturn Library sold more units combined than Ocarina of Time did.

Oh come on, that's nothing like what I said at all.

[TrekkiesUnite118]

Your argument is most certainly that ridiculous, you are comparing the sales and availability of one game to multiple games. So what if they are all in one franchise? We are saying Daytona USA is the highest grossing Arcade Game of all time, not Franchise. Sure Cruis'n as a franchise may have sold more when we combine every single sequel and iteration of the game into one big entity, but you could do that for just about anything. You are basically bending the rules just enough to make Cruis'n look more popular.

You say Cruis'n Machines are still everywhere in arcades. Well here's a big difference you need to take into consideration. In a big arcade that has 1 Cruis'n Machine, there are probably 8 Daytona USA Machines nearby that still get played, while the Cruis'n machine sits and collects dust, only to be played by the people waiting for a Daytona machine to open up.

The main reason why Daytona never went beyond Daytona USA 2 is because Sega lost the Daytona license. You can't really make a game called Daytona USA 3 when you don't have the license now can you? So they focused on their other racers instead. As for numbers a quick google search says the entire Cruisin' franchise has sold some 65,000 Arcade units worldwide. I can't find any info on Daytona USA other than it being one of the highest grossing arcade games of all time in not only units sold but how much money it brought and still brings to Arcade owners.

[A Black Falcon]

Your argument is most certainly that ridiculous, you are comparing the sales and availability of one game to multiple games. So what if they are all in one franchise? We are saying Daytona USA is the highest grossing Arcade Game of all time, not Franchise. Sure Cruis'n as a franchise may have sold more when we combine every single sequel and iteration of the game into one big entity, but you could do that for just about anything. You are basically bending the rules just enough to make Cruis'n look more popular.

You say that it's unfair to compare one game to a franchise, but think about it -- that franchise is popular in only one country, while that single game was popular worldwide. Also, that single game was popular in the country which absolutely dominates in arcade game moneymaking, Japan; the US's nothing in comparison.
And I'll guess that a lot of that Daytona success comes from Japan... but of course, without sales figures it's hard to compare. And you know, for arcade games in the US 65,000 number you mention later is incredibly great sales.

You say Cruis'n Machines are still everywhere in arcades. Well here's a big difference you need to take into consideration. In a big arcade that has 1 Cruis'n Machine, there are probably 8 Daytona USA Machines nearby that still get played, while the Cruis'n machine sits and collects dust, only to be played by the people waiting for a Daytona machine to open up.

If it was just collecting dust, it wouldn't still be there. So no. Your "Daytona is played more" thing is something you've made up because you like the game more, I expect. And anyway, very, VERY few American arcades have 8 Daytona machines... maybe some did back in like 1995, but today? Hah! Cruis'n/F&TF are usually singles or in pairs, just like Daytona or "Sega Racing Classic" probably is.

And of course, there are very few arcades in the US period. Most arcade games here are a couple of machines in a movie theater lobby or large store or highway rest stop or things such as that, and Cruis'n/F&TF games are very common in such places.

The main reason why Daytona never went beyond Daytona USA 2 is because Sega lost the Daytona license. You can't really make a game called Daytona USA 3 when you don't have the license now can you? So they focused on their other racers instead. As for numbers a quick google search says the entire Cruisin' franchise has sold some 65,000 Arcade units worldwide. I can't find any info on Daytona USA other than it being one of the highest grossing arcade games of all time in not only units sold but how much money it brought and still brings to Arcade owners.

They could have made something similar with similar gameplay... it's not like Daytona actually had any actual NASCAR tracks in it after all, they just used the name. But we didn't even get home ports of Daytona USA 2 or Super GT under any title.