Short reviews of all games I have for a system: Saturn

[TrekkiesUnite118]

That 65,000 isn't just the US, it's for the entire franchise across the entire world. That's pretty pathetic actually. That's 65,000 divided by at least 4 games, if not 7 if its including the Fast and the Furious games across the entire world.

There are still plenty of Arcades in the US, you just need to know where to look. Places with large Arcades are the following:

Amusement Parks
Malls
Downtown areas of Cities
Key franchise chains (Dave and Busters, Chuckie Cheeses, etc.)

Sure you are not going to see them in every town like you used to, but many do still exist.

Just to give you an example in HersheyPark there are two main Arcades. The main Arcade is a huge amazing Arcade full of great retro cabinets with things like a Deluxe After Burner II cabinet, Super Monoaco, Golden Axe, Street Fighter II, Galaxy Force, and many other great 80's and early 90's games. There's also 4-8 (can't remember specifically) Daytona USA 2 cabinets all linked up and 2 Deluxe Daytona USA cabinets as well as later Sega Racing cabinets. There wasn't a single Fast and the Furious or Cruis'in cabinet in there at all last time I was there. Over in the smaller Arcade it's mostly the Hunting light gun games, ticket games (Skeeball), and DDR. There is one Cruis'in cabinet in there though. So yeah, you have about 6-10+ Daytona and other Sega Arcade racers vs 1 Cruis'in Cabinet in the entire park.

Another example was when I was in Miami in 2005 for a Scuba trip to the Florida Keys. We went to a Dave and Busters. In the Arcade they had against one wall 8 Daytona USA machines with a huge screen above them that showed the screen of the Race leader. Against the wall perpendicular to it was what looked like 8 Virtua Racing Deluxe machines (I say looked like because if I remember correctly some of these were converted into a Model 2 F1 racer and I didn't get a good look) all linked with again a large screen showing the race leader. Again there were no Cruis'in Machines in site. There was one Fast and the Furious Machine over in the corner though.

And finally when I moved to Maryland this year I went to a nearby Dave and Busters. In their Arcade room were 8 Deluxe Daytona USA machines all linked up. Beside it were about 4 Twin Nascar racing games, and in the corner were two Fast and the Furious machines. No Cruis'in machines though. The Daytona machines had the most people playing it and people waiting to play it.

Fast and the Furious and Cruis'in games may still exist in Wal-Marts and random places here and there, but in the major Arcades that get actual traffic and lots of people playing the games, Daytona still reigns supreme. Considering how old Daytona USA is, that's quite a feat.

[A Black Falcon]

That 65,000 isn't just the US, it's for the entire franchise across the entire world. That's pretty pathetic actually. That's 65,000 divided by at least 4 games, if not 7 if its including the Fast and the Furious games across the entire world.

First, that's for three games, not seven. That number wouldn't include the F&TF numbers, of course, and there are three Cruis'n arcade games. And second, remember that those were almost all sold in the US exclusively. The US never was a gigantic arcade game market, not like Japan was and is -- 65,000 has got to put that in the very highest end of the top of US arcade game sales. I would be very, VERY surprised if Daytona USA was anywhere near that number! I'd be shocked, in fact. Of course that's three games versus one, but as I've said before, I'd even guess that just the first Cruis'n USA has a chance sales-wise versus Daytona. But we don't seem to know any actual numbers for Daytona, so it's impossible to say.

There are still plenty of Arcades in the US, you just need to know where to look. Places with large Arcades are the following:

Amusement Parks
Malls
Downtown areas of Cities
Key franchise chains (Dave and Busters, Chuckie Cheeses, etc.)

Sure you are not going to see them in every town like you used to, but many do still exist.

I don't think there's one single dedicated arcade left in this entire state... if there is, I don't know about it. There never were very many, but they're all gone now. There are some arcade games in large stores, some movie theaters, maybe the amusement park I haven't been there in years, but dedicated arcades? No. And that's pretty normal these days, I think... or rather, pretty normal for these last 12+ years, since the arcade market in the US fell apart in the late '90s.

Just to give you an example in HersheyPark there are two main Arcades. The main Arcade is a huge amazing Arcade full of great retro cabinets with things like a Deluxe After Burner II cabinet, Super Monoaco, Golden Axe, Street Fighter II, Galaxy Force, and many other great 80's and early 90's games. There's also 4-8 (can't remember specifically) Daytona USA 2 cabinets all linked up and 2 Deluxe Daytona USA cabinets as well as later Sega Racing cabinets. There wasn't a single Fast and the Furious or Cruis'in cabinet in there at all last time I was there. Over in the smaller Arcade it's mostly the Hunting light gun games, ticket games (Skeeball), and DDR. There is one Cruis'in cabinet in there though. So yeah, you have about 6-10+ Daytona and other Sega Arcade racers vs 1 Cruis'in Cabinet in the entire park.

Another example was when I was in Miami in 2005 for a Scuba trip to the Florida Keys. We went to a Dave and Busters. In the Arcade they had against one wall 8 Daytona USA machines with a huge screen above them that showed the screen of the Race leader. Against the wall perpendicular to it was what looked like 8 Virtua Racing Deluxe machines (I say looked like because if I remember correctly some of these were converted into a Model 2 F1 racer and I didn't get a good look) all linked with again a large screen showing the race leader. Again there were no Cruis'in Machines in site. There was one Fast and the Furious Machine over in the corner though.

And finally when I moved to Maryland this year I went to a nearby Dave and Busters. In their Arcade room were 8 Deluxe Daytona USA machines all linked up. Beside it were about 4 Twin Nascar racing games, and in the corner were two Fast and the Furious machines. No Cruis'in machines though. The Daytona machines had the most people playing it and people waiting to play it.

Fast and the Furious and Cruis'in games may still exist in Wal-Marts and random places here and there, but in the major Arcades that get actual traffic and lots of people playing the games, Daytona still reigns supreme. Considering how old Daytona USA is, that's quite a feat.

You can keep telling yourself that, but you've got absolutely no proof. Personal experiences are not proof! Why do you keep using your own personal experiences as proof for the games' continuing popularity, when you know that it means very little?

Also, as I've said, there are very, very few of those "major arcades that get traffic" in the US, while there are a lot of stores, movie theaters, and rest stops with a few random arcade games in them.

[Thenewguy]

How do most places in the US compare to my home town would you guys say?

All these places are open every day, Google maps just took the pictures really early.

All the same street, 15 minutes walk from my house

[j_factor]

I don't think I've ever seen any Cruis'n machines linked up. It's always just the one. Whereas with Daytona USA they always have multiple linked machines. Not always the full 8 of them, but always more than one.

It's certainly true that dedicated straight arcades (e.g. Aladdin's Castle) have become rare in the US. But every decent-sized movie theater has one, along with amusement parks, miniature golf places, bowling alleys, etc. Along with Dave & Buster's and Chuck E. Cheese. So even though "regular" arcades are rare, there are still plenty of other places with arcade games. All those places add up. I'm not sure exactly how the US compares to Japan, but consider that the US is a much bigger country (so it has a lot of those places, spread out), plus I don't think bowling or mini golf are common in Japan.

[sheath]

Uh, if all of those have Arcade games it looks like heaven on earth to me. I've searched through Houston and Fort Worth recently and found nothing of interest. Of course, the only place in my town that had a large Arcade room with anything interesting in it was a pizza joint full of really badly mannered adults and children so I never went there. I'm okay with occasionally being stepped in front of, but constantly ticks me off especially when everything is dirty too. The other place in town is a bowling laser tag place and doesn't have anything besides Namco light gun shooters and really bad late gen 3D racers. Oh and dancing games that nobody plays anymore.

There is a Dave and Busters in Houston that has a ton of connected racing cabinets, including Daytona USA and F355 Challenge. The Daytona machines were always in use, most of the other racers were easier to get to.

[Thenewguy]

Uh, if all of those have Arcade games it looks like heaven on earth to me.

I'd say the insides are around 70%-80% arcade games, the rest is taken up with slot machines and claw machines.

Unfortunately they have waay too many shared games, they've all got a bunch of dance machines, and House of the Dead 2 and other lightgun games for instance, and a lot of its also fairly new-ish (Outrun 2, Afterburner Climax, Mario Kart GP 2 etc), and there's very little 2D stuff anymore

[sheath]

I'd say the insides are around 70%-80% arcade games, the rest is taken up with slot machines and claw machines.

Unfortunately they have waay too many shared games, they've all got a bunch of dance machines, and House of the Dead 2 and other lightgun games for instance, and a lot of its also fairly new-ish (Outrun 2, Afterburner Climax, Mario Kart GP 2 etc), and there's very little 2D stuff anymore

Yeah, the only 2D machines I ever see are those nasty combo machines. I haven't seen Outrun 2 or Afterburner Climax in the wild, or Virtua Fighter 4 or 5 for that matter. Tons of Soul Calibur 4 machines pop up here and there, and there is some Cruisin' game above World that I see from time to time in pizza joints.

[TrekkiesUnite118]

You can keep telling yourself that, but you've got absolutely no proof. Personal experiences are not proof! Why do you keep using your own personal experiences as proof for the games' continuing popularity, when you know that it means very little?

Also, as I've said, there are very, very few of those "major arcades that get traffic" in the US, while there are a lot of stores, movie theaters, and rest stops with a few random arcade games in them.

Yet you keep using your own personal experience of seeing Cruis'in machines everywhere as proof that it's more popular than Daytona USA. Way to be a hypocrite!

[A Black Falcon]

Yet you keep using your own personal experience of seeing Cruis'in machines everywhere as proof that it's more popular than Daytona USA. Way to be a hypocrite!

No, I've got that 65,000 sold number to back me up, and I know that that's mostly US sales. You don't have anything for Daytona in the US, only "it was really successful worldwide".

I don't think I've ever seen any Cruis'n machines linked up. It's always just the one. Whereas with Daytona USA they always have multiple linked machines. Not always the full 8 of them, but always more than one.

While you do often see single Cruis'n machines, I don't think I've ever seen a single F&TF series machine -- those are always twin cabs. And twin Cruis'n machines used to be common. They seem to have gotten split up over time, or something.

It's certainly true that dedicated straight arcades (e.g. Aladdin's Castle) have become rare in the US. But every decent-sized movie theater has one, along with amusement parks, miniature golf places, bowling alleys, etc. Along with Dave & Buster's and Chuck E. Cheese. So even though "regular" arcades are rare, there are still plenty of other places with arcade games. All those places add up. I'm not sure exactly how the US compares to Japan, but consider that the US is a much bigger country (so it has a lot of those places, spread out), plus I don't think bowling or mini golf are common in Japan.

Yeah, that pic up there with things that I assume are arcades... I would think that there are very few states in this country with that many dedicated arcades in the whole state... California, sure, maybe New York I don't know, but anywhere else? Okay, that's probably wrong thanks to Chuck E. Cheese's, but apart from that, arcades are extremely uncommon.

As for Dave & Buster's, I've never been to one because the nearest one is several states away from here. I don't know how many of those there are, but there aren't any anywhere within several hours drive of here.

Yeah, the only 2D machines I ever see are those nasty combo machines. I haven't seen Outrun 2 or Afterburner Climax in the wild, or Virtua Fighter 4 or 5 for that matter. Tons of Soul Calibur 4 machines pop up here and there, and there is some Cruisin' game above World that I see from time to time in pizza joints.

I've played arcade Outrun 2 once or twice, but I've never seen Afterburner Climax, VF4 or 5, H2 Overdrive, that newer racing game from them, etc, etc. Movie theater lobbies and the like to not have recent high-end arcade machines like those, only the more popular ones like golf, F&TF, other mass-market arcade racers like NFS or whatever it is, etc. Nothing as recent as H2 Overdrive certainly. I think the newest arcade cab I've actually played was a Raising Storm machine, which is somewhat recent, but was the only recent machine at that movie theater.

Also, do you mean Cruis'n Exotica? That was the last of the three arcade Cruis'n titles.

[TrekkiesUnite118]

No, I've got that 65,000 sold number to back me up, and I know that that's mostly US sales. You don't have anything for Daytona in the US, only "it was really successful worldwide".

A number I found for you, and before that you were going off your personal experience. And you have no idea if it's mostly US sales or not. We don't have a complete break down, and it's for three games after all.

Daytona's claim to being one of if not the highest grossing Arcade game is not just from units sold, it's from the amount of revenue it brought in and still continues to bring in to this day. As a franchise it's not the highest grossing, that goes to franchises like Pac-Man and Street Fighter. But as a single game it's most certainly up there as one of the highest grossing Arcade games. Cruis'in USA is most certainly not. There's no data on Daytona USA's sales that I can find online. That doesn't mean it wasn't successful, after all Sega is notorious for not releasing this kind of information.

Considering the massive impact it had I'd say it was definitely more popular than Cruis'in, especially considering people still stand in line to play Daytona USA. When was the last time you saw people waiting in line to play Cruis'in USA? Heck I don't even remember having to wait to play it in Arcades back in the 90's. In fact the only time I would play Cruis'in USA was when I was waiting for a Daytona USA machine to open up. Daytona USA was huge because of the intensity of the gameplay it offered and the muliplayer experience it created in Arcade Racers. You didn't have that in Cruis'in USA at all. Cruis'in USA by comparison was quite dated as it's pretty much the equivalent to 3D OutRun. No one was standing in line to play Cruis'in USA in any Arcade I was ever at in my life. They were all standing in line to play Daytona USA.

[A Black Falcon]

A number I found for you, and before that you were going off your personal experience. And you have no idea if it's mostly US sales or not. We don't have a complete break down, and it's for three games after all.

No, I'd seen that number before. I did a bit of searching to try to find it again, actually, because I didn't have it memorized, but you found it first. But I'd certainly seen the number before.

Daytona's claim to being one of if not the highest grossing Arcade game is not just from units sold, it's from the amount of revenue it brought in and still continues to bring in to this day.

You know one of the surest ways to know that an arcade game is drawing in revenue?

It's when arcade operators are buying the game and putting it in their arcades. Because machines that make no money do NOT stay in the place. That 65,000 Cruis'n series machines sold tells you that they must have been good moneymakers, without question.

As a franchise it's not the highest grossing, that goes to franchises like Pac-Man and Street Fighter. But as a single game it's most certainly up there as one of the highest grossing Arcade games. Cruis'in USA is most certainly not. There's no data on Daytona USA's sales that I can find online. That doesn't mean it wasn't successful, after all Sega is notorious for not releasing this kind of information.

Considering the massive impact it had I'd say it was definitely more popular than Cruis'in,

It wasn't, though. Not in the US. In Japan, certainly. In Europe, probably, sure. But in the US? No.

especially considering people still stand in line to play Daytona USA. When was the last time you saw people waiting in line to play Cruis'in USA? Heck I don't even remember having to wait to play it in Arcades back in the 90's. In fact the only time I would play Cruis'in USA was when I was waiting for a Daytona USA machine to open up. Daytona USA was huge because of the intensity of the gameplay it offered and the muliplayer experience it created in Arcade Racers. You didn't have that in Cruis'in USA at all. Cruis'in USA by comparison was quite dated as it's pretty much the equivalent to 3D OutRun. No one was standing in line to play Cruis'in USA in any Arcade I was ever at in my life.

Hah, and I'm sure you can remember this fact perfectly... yeah... wait, no, that's quite unlikely.

They were all standing in line to play Daytona USA.

Now that's some impressive Sega blinders, that's for sure... most of this is just inaccurate biased stuff, clearly. And you repeat your same absurd "people wait in line for Daytona but no one even plays Cruis'n" line again even though you know it's inaccurate and that your own personal experience means nothing (if you're even remembering accurately, in terms of people playing Cruis'n games), you act like no one plays Cruis'n games even though you know that it's the most successful arcade racing game franchise ever, etc.

On a related note...

http://www.gamechoiceawards.com/archive/lifetime.html

In 1990's, Eugene jump started the adventure driving genre with Cruis'n USA (1994), Cruis'n World (1996), and Cruis'n Exotica (2000)featuring photo-realistic 3-D texture mapping and modeling, and real world locations. The Cruis'n series is the all time highest grossing arcade driving series with over 65,000 arcade games sold worldwide. Cruis'n USA was a launch title for the Nintendo 64, and the series sold over 3,000,000 console games.

More total sales than Daytona, then. I presume that'd include Daytona plus Daytona 2, so that has got to be a comparison of series. And on that note, as I said before, if the numbers existed, It'd be fine to toss in Daytona 2 and Super GT along with Daytona... that'd be an interesting comparison to make. Too bad the numbers aren't there.

Another number there to note is the 3 million console games. I highly doubt that all home versions of Daytona all combined would add up to 3 million... another statement about the series success.

Now, is Daytona USA a better game than the best Cruis'n game, Cruis'n Exotica? Yes, it is. But Cruis'n Exotica is fun. Simplistic, but fun.

[TrekkiesUnite118]

I really REALLY find it hard to believe that Cruis'n even as a series is the highest grossing Arcade racing series worldwide. I'd like to see the data on that one rather than a blurb in an award. I highly doubt they did much research especially since some sales numbers aren't complete public knowledge. When all the Cruis'in games and spin offs are added up they probably do come out to be more than Daytona USA. But I bet you that Daytona USA has brought in more money to Arcade owners than Cruis'in USA has. Cruis'in USA may have been a good money maker back in the 90's. Daytona USA on the other and was and still is a good money maker to this day.

Daytona USA is still popular and played in Arcades. If I have to go to Dave and Busters on a Saturday night and take a picture of the crowd around Daytona USA I will if that's what needs to be done to prove to you that the game still makes money after 20 years. Before I mentioned that 65,000 number all of your arguments were on personal experience in this thread. Why can't my experiences across the country in different kinds of arcades count?

And digging around old news articles from 1994 and 1995 we can see that Daytona USA was not only popular, but a smash hit. One article mentioned that Sega had sold around 33,000 Model 2 boards in 1994. Considering that there weren't many Model 2 games out in 1994, and that a large majority of the Model 2 games you still see around today are Daytona USA, I'd say a large majority of those 33,000 units were Daytona USA machines. And that's just for one year, it most certainly sold for a few more years. Going off that info I'd say Daytona USA was right up there with Cruis'in USA in popularity if not more popular.

And I bet if you added up all the Saturn releases, the PC releases, the Dreamcast release and the XBLA/PSN release you'd get close to if not more than 3 million. The original Saturn port we know sold at least 500,000 as an article from 1996 during the 3 Free games promotion states that 500,000 Saturns were sold with that bundle. Which means at least 500,000 copies of the original Daytona USA for the Saturn made it into consumers hands.

[Team Andromeda]

As a franchise it's not the highest grossing, that goes to franchises like Pac-Man and Street Fighter. But as a single game it's most certainly up there as one of the highest grossing Arcade games. Cruis'in USA is most certainly not. There's no data on Daytona USA's sales that I can find online. That doesn't mean it wasn't successful, after all Sega is notorious for not releasing this kind of information.

Street Fighter and Pac Man won't be compared to Daytona USA . Daytona USA is the most successful selling 'custom Board' Coin up of all time, the world over . Street Fighter II would be counted in standard Jamma sales they're slightly different.
I think in actual fact Virtual Fighter 4 is SEGA most successful and top crossing Coin up of all time and I think still holders the record in Japan for any coin up ever made (be that Jamma or Custom)

I'd say Outrun 2, and that rip-off Mario Kart game are far more popular racers at the moment

Out Run 2 didn't really do that well for SEGA in the Arcades (but it was from a dud) Initial D Arcade is where the money is to be made for SEGA races in the Arcades.

[Thenewguy]

Out Run 2 didn't really do that well for SEGA in the Arcades (but it was from a dud) Initial D Arcade is where the money is to be made for SEGA races in the Arcades.

Well, maybe in Japan, and worldwide, but in the UK the Initial D anime is a non-entity, I just went through all the local arcades and there wasn't even any machines, Outrun 2 on the other hand was in at least three separate parlours.

Checked Daytona, ran into 4 sets of machines, nobody was playing any of them, the two places with Skud Race's though were both being fully used, we don't have any Cruisin' machines.

I was being optimistic about the average number of arcade games inside, I'd say its more like 45%-50%, I'd forgotten about the 2-pence pushing machines, air hockey tables, and pool tables.

Also Funland seems to have closed down, and Stardust is gambling machines only, on the other hand there were three more arcade parlours I'd forgotten about anyway, 1 on the other side of the street, and two more much further down, our bowling alley also has a further 15-20 machines.

Also there were more mid-90s representation than I gave credit, multiple Daytona's, multiple Manx TTs, multiple Sega Touring Cars, multiple Skud Race, a Sega Rally cabinet, Gunblade, Top Skater etc.

A few 2D games, Simpsons, Bust-A-Move, Space Invaders, Pacman, Track N Field.

[j_factor]

That's odd, I've certainly seen far more Initial D machines than Out Run 2. Granted, there's multiple Initial D games, but there's also three different versions of Out Run 2. That game isn't very common in my experience.