Service Games: The Rise and Fall of SEGA

[sheath]

How are the system specs hard to come by? I know Sega's are written plain as day on the last page of the manuals that came with the systems. Unless you mean the innerworkings and quirks the systems have and low level programming stuff.

The innerworkings were hard to come by and frequently wrong. Some of the specs in the manuals were wrong if I recall. I haven't looked at any of the manuals in a long time.

[Thenewguy]

Which means he shouldn't be writing a book in the first place, unless it's sold as fiction.

I don't think I've ever read a book on videogames where the writer knew anything about how the hardware works, writers just don't go into the tech side very often. Literally every single gaming magazine back in the day proved time and again that journalists have next to no idea of how this stuff works.

If writers required an intimate amount of knowledge on how hardware works then I don't think we would have many books on videogame history out there to be honest.

The Segabase articles were pretty interesting when they were written, but there's a lot more information out there on the subject these days which wasn't easily available at that time.

Maybe I'll make another attempt to search through the sources in the future to work out where each piece of info comes from.

[Lastcallhall]

It's not just the fact that he doesn't understand the hardware - as Sheath has pointed out, most of Pettus's information comes from biased individuals who only want to tell their side of the story while burying everyone else in the sand. It's revisionist history, and I would feel the same way if it were Nintendo's Atari's or SNK's history. If your book promotes the history of (something), then you should at least try to remain as neutral as possible, and to research all aspects of the issue you're writing about. Yes, I get that history is often written by the victors, but that doesn't mean you need to go out and shamelessly stoke the flames just to further your own agenda. It almost always paints the subject in a bad light, and in this case, makes Sega look like it was always this hugely divided company between Japan and the US, when it probably was a little more level headed and courteous than that.

[sheath]

One other thing. Real history cannot be written until at least ten years after the fact. Preferably more. So this book and Kent's and Sheff's all are nothing more than an anecdotal journalistic impression of current events. They are conveniently arranged primary sources for the eventual real historical work. If they wanted to make a history book, they should have waited.

[Lan Di]

It almost always paints the subject in a bad light, and in this case, makes Sega look like it was always this hugely divided company between Japan and the US, when it probably was a little more level headed and courteous than that.

I understand what you mean, but I have to disagree. Tom Kalinske and good old uncle Bernie (Stollar) bumped heads with Sega of Japan on so many occasions.
SOJ did not want SOA to have Sonic as a Genesis "pack in" game.
SOJ was against the Dreamcast $199 launch price.
Kalinske wanted the N64 hardware and SOJ was totally against it (and maybe that worked out for the better).
No FM module for the US Master System (so many non Japanese SMS games had FM sound, but we were never given the chance to enjoy until recently through the home brew community).

I could go on and on. Like I said before, when Sega dumped the DC, I went through a severe gaming crisis. Classic gaming is what made me bounce back. I don't know about you guys, but for me back in the day, Sega defined the very notion of gaming. Sure I had a Turbografx/Duo, SNES and 7800, etc., but for me back then, Sega was the authority on gaming. One of Sega's biggest failures was the 32x and in my opinion Knuckles Chaotix and Blackthorne, Virtua Racing, Afterburner and Space Harrier (better versions of AB and SH exist on the Saturn) are the only worthy titles, everything else is bargain bin fodder at best.

I appreciate all the feedback, I really do. I'll probably end up getting the book and just look past the alleged hardware inaccuracies.

[Thenewguy]

as Sheath has pointed out, most of Pettus's information comes from biased individuals who only want to tell their side of the story while burying everyone else in the sand.

Problem is, everyone has their own perspective on the past, and its often coloured by a whole load of different variables, there is no true history, two sources can be both telling the truth as far as they know, and contradictory at the same time.

On top of this memory is never 100% either, I mean the members of NoA can't even agree whether Super Mario Bros was available for the US launch or not FFS!

It's revisionist history, and I would feel the same way if it were Nintendo's Atari's or SNK's history. If your book promotes the history of (something), then you should at least try to remain as neutral as possible, and to research all aspects of the issue you're writing about. Yes, I get that history is often written by the victors, but that doesn't mean you need to go out and shamelessly stoke the flames just to further your own agenda.

Well to be honest as far as I'm concerned the absolute worst revisionism comes mainly from this forum, people around here have a habit of pointing the finger at any negative source whilst simultaneously clutching at straws when they find evidence to the contrary (often the evidence doesn't even support their standpoint very well either).

It almost always paints the subject in a bad light, and in this case, makes Sega look like it was always this hugely divided company between Japan and the US, when it probably was a little more level headed and courteous than that.

I'd say its likely there was a rift between SoA, and SoJ to be honest, too many interviews back this up, even staff from SoE stated that SoJ ignored them on multiple occasions causing them multiple business problems.

You're quite probably right that it may have been overstated over the years though, I'm sure there must've been a lot of occasions where the two worked well together. Thats another thing actually, I think people have a tendency for remembering the bad better than the good anyway, especially when it comes to work (unfortunately it tends to be the opposite way round when you get dumped by a girl though LOL).

[sheath]

Problem is, everyone has their own perspective on the past, and its often coloured by a whole load of different variables, there is no true history, two sources can be both telling the truth as far as they know, and contradictory at the same time.

On top of this memory is never 100% either, I mean the members of NoA can't even agree whether Super Mario Bros was available for the US launch or not FFS!

I always pegged you for the skeptic. Well, guess what, there is another view that the popular skeptics don't even want to think about. Objective fact based history can and should aspire to the truth of any topic. If the history is written after the lifetimes of all primary witnesses than it must admit the limited research possibilities.

But only a skeptic would hold that two people would watch the same event and come up with significantly contradictory, and irreconcilable, statements in every case. We had all might as well stop believing in gravity if that is the case.

Do you still believe that Edge magazine was unbiased back in the day?

[Thenewguy]

But only a skeptic would hold that two people would watch the same event and come up with significantly contradictory, and irreconcilable, statements in every case.

Unfortunately over the years I've come to the conclusion that human interaction is a bit of a fallacy to be honest, built on constant misunderstandings, this happens because

1# everyone is different
2# everyone projects their own feelings and thoughts onto other people, they think "how would I feel in this situation?" when, in fact people don't feel the same way in the same situations anyway.

Some examples, both have happened to me -

I'm at a party, I'm deep in thought over something I read the other day, my friend sees me and says "hey! why so down?" attributing something he thinks would be causing me to be feeling unhappy, if he's feeling depressed he may come to the conclusion that similar things may be on my mind (work, relationships etc), I explain that I not depressed at all, and that my mind is just elsewhere.

Had I not explained this, if someone asked this guy what the party was like the guy would say "it was ok, but Joe Bloggs was pretty unhappy, I think he was worrying about work" whilst I might say "it was ok, but to be honest I was distracted at the time"

Another example, this kid in school used to be a bit of a douchebag to me, if asked about the guy 10 years ago I would've said he was a PoS, whilst others would maybe say he was an alright guy. Anyway, years later turns out that I'd made some random joke about the guy behind his back (nothing really bad tbh) when I was like 12, and someone overheard and went and told him, the next 3 years of the guy being a douche was directly caused by that event even though I never actually knew at the time, so whilst I thought he was a cock, in reality it was my fault to begin with.

This stuff is made even worse when the people have been brought up in different countries with different customs and cultures, I've read a lot of anecdotes about American's overseas, Americans suppossedly have slightly lower inhibition levels than most people in the UK (and Japan), as a result when a lot of Americans come to the UK and try to make friends they sometimes come across as being brash, and overbearing, because people over here aren't used to others they don't know very well acting like they're on close terms, whilst the Americans find them to be cold, and unfriendly. I also remember reading some stories about Americans and Britains working in Germany and feeling uncomfortable, there were some mentionings that if you ask someone in Germany what they think of your work (such as a book you've written), they're more likely to check through for errors and criticise and rip your work to pieces. As soon as you ask them what they think, they take it upon themselves to do a proper judgement in an effort to help you improve your work, whilst in the US, or Britain you would sugar-coat your reply as well as possible so as to not hurt the persons feeling etc.

So where am I going with this? am I going to ever shut up?

Well, all I'm saying is that its possible that if, say, Sonic Team went to stay in the US and work with Americans, its possible the Americans may come to the conclusion that the Japanese are being cold, and aloof, whilst the Japanese may feel that the Americans are overstepping some personal boundaries in conversation, even if neither side is actually doing anything wrong, either side would give wildly different accounts, and neither side would be lying.

When Kalinske told SoJ his thoughts on what they needed to do, he may have misread their reactions, or what he felt was self confidence may have been seen by them as being arrogance, or they may have felty that he did not show the proper respect etc

Do you still believe that Edge magazine was unbiased back in the day?

I believe that they took in all the wealth of information laid out to them from developers and insiders and came to their own conclusions based on that information.

[retrospiel]

No FM module for the US Master System (so many non Japanese SMS games had FM sound, but we were never given the chance to enjoy until recently through the home brew community).

And you think the Japanese decided the West could do without FM ? I would think SOA is responsible. For they decide what they release and what they won't.

- Neither of us got any sources to back it up however so let's stick with what can be proven through reliable sources.

I appreciate all the feedback, I really do. I'll probably end up getting the book and just look past the alleged hardware inaccuracies.

It's not about hardware inaccuracies. It's about Pettus reproducing conversations that never happened as if he was there in that very room and at that very time when they didn't happen.

It's about building a shrine to Kalinske and SOA and portraying whoever happened to work at SOJ from 1990 to 2002 as pure evil, out to destroy the awesomeness that is Sega of America.

[Lan Di]

And you think the Japanese decided the West could do without FM ? I would think SOA is responsible. For they decide what they release and what they won't.

- Neither of us got any sources to back it up however so let's stick with what can be proven through reliable sources.

I agree with the reliable source part completely, but ultimately the NA and EU Sega consumer was screwed by Sega by the lack of FM support. Like I said, so many non Japanese SMS game support FM sound, but for some oddball reason Sega never gave us an FM module.

It's not about hardware inaccuracies. It's about Pettus reproducing conversations that never happened as if he was there in that very room and at that very time when they didn't happen.

It's about building a shrine to Kalinske and SOA and portraying whoever happened to work at SOJ from 1990 to 2002 as pure evil, out to destroy the awesomeness that is Sega of America.

I never perceived that this was Pettus' agenda and I doubt that it is. I've always understood that Pettus tried to expose both SOA's and SOJ's blunders on his website. So the ultimate question is who or what has the real and factual inside story regarding Sega's past?

[sheath]

I don't think the Master System made it into enough stores in the US to justify it receiving an add-on module just for sound. Americans are historically tone deaf anyway.

Now in Europe I'm sure a million or so Master System purchasers might have contemplated buying a sound module. It isn't as though the stock system just supports the FM expansion though, it would have to be powered as well.

[Lan Di]

I don't think the Master System made it into enough stores in the US to justify it receiving an add-on module just for sound. Americans are historically tone deaf anyway.

Now in Europe I'm sure a million or so Master System purchasers might have contemplated buying a sound module. It isn't as though the stock system just supports the FM expansion though, it would have to be powered as well.

Sorry I don't buy it. Sega should have done everything possible to sway retailers, publishers, and consumers away from Nintendo's illegal monopoly. Its all about managerial, marketing, and legal competency. The FM module could have definitely helped in some way. And what's this about Americans being tone deaf? Maybe little kids, but not the teen and adult gaming crowd.

BTW you haven't lived until you've played Phantasy Star, Wonder Boy in Monster Land, Power Strike, or Kenseiden with FM sound.

Maybe I need to explain it clearer. A substantial number of SMS games never released in Japan have full FM support. IMHO, Sega had serious plans for a future FM expansion for SOA and SOE and then decided later down the line to can the idea, probably thinking to use those funds to market and develop upcoming Megadrive/Genesis instead.

[sheath]

Sorry I don't buy it. Sega should have done everything possible spent more money to sway retailers, publishers, and consumers away from Nintendo's illegal monopoly. Its all about managerial, marketing, and legal competency. The FM module could have definitely helped in some way. And what's this about Americans being tone deaf? Maybe little kids, but not the teen and adult gaming crowd.

BTW you haven't lived until you've played Phantasy Star, Wonder Boy in Monster Land, Power Strike, or Kenseiden with FM sound.

Maybe I need to explain it clearer. A substantial number of SMS games never released in Japan have full FM support. IMHO, Sega had serious plans for a future FM expansion for SOA and SOE and then decided later down the line to can the idea, probably thinking to use those funds to market and develop upcoming Megadrive/Genesis instead.

Check the first line for the only correction I can make to your statement.

My Master System has the FM module in it, I frequently switch it off just to hear the PSG tunes instead. Golvellius is one of those instances.

[Lan Di]

Check the first line for the only correction I can make to your statement.

My Master System has the FM module in it, I frequently switch it off just to hear the PSG tunes instead. Golvellius is one of those instances.

Cool! Positive rep sent.

[sheath]

Cool! Positive rep sent.

Thanks. The tone def comment was a joke. I almost put a smiley next to it. There are several games that I can play with PSG or FM music on the Master System and don't feel any ill effects though.

It is too bad they didn't combine the PSG and YM2413 for in game music, that would have been something.