The Sega Saturn appreciation thread

[Moirai]

Wasn't Saturn shenmue like 85 percent complete? That's pretty far..

[TrekkiesUnite118]

I never had any trouble with the camera or other glitches and have declared so before. The problem is the game's just no fun. The only reasons I played up to Big's part are it's Sonic and I had few DC games.
Releasing Shenmue for the Saturn would've been overwhelmingly foolish unless Sega was foolish enough to let a Saturn version near completion in the first place. Vastly too small a customership to justify the expense. It would've made more sense to release it on the Playstation as an advertising tool for the DC version.

The Saturn version was actually pretty far along as the beta footage shows:



As for Sonic adventure not being fun, did you hit your head on something?

[sheath]

I never had any trouble with the camera or other glitches and have declared so before. The problem is the game's just no fun. The only reasons I played up to Big's part are it's Sonic and I had few DC games.

Man, Sonic Adventure and Power Stone were breaths of new life in 3D gaming for me. That much fast action in a third person 3D game up until then was limited to Virtual On. I would have played through Sonic Adventure repeatedly even if it had game breaking glitches and twice as many Amy and Big levels. I consider the Amy levels more fun than Mario 64 though, so...

Releasing Shenmue for the Saturn would've been overwhelmingly foolish unless Sega was foolish enough to let a Saturn version near completion in the first place. Vastly too small a customership to justify the expense. It would've made more sense to release it on the Playstation as an advertising tool for the DC version.

Yeah, if it wasn't by 1997 in the US Shenmue on the Saturn would have been expensive fan service and nothing else.

[StarMist]

Man, Sonic Adventure and Power Stone were breaths of new life in 3D gaming for me. That much fast action in a third person 3D game up until then was limited to Virtual On. I would have played through Sonic Adventure repeatedly even if it had game breaking glitches and twice as many Amy and Big levels.

You and I are just going to have to reach that sort of leering truce friends reach when one eats meat and the other's vegan. I thought SA one of the slowest messes ever.

I consider the Amy levels more fun than Mario 64 though, so...

Amy's pretty cute when she doesn't have a voice = my character of preference in Sonic Advance. Not quite up there with that mallet wielding chick in Star Ocean 2 though--whose voicings I hated as well. Mario characters in 3D are insipid at best.

[gamevet]

I've already beaten the Sonic Adventure dislike horse to death. I could afford all of the new games that were available for the DC, if I didn't like a game, I moved on to something better. I've just never found the game enjoyable enough to play it to completion.

Also with the QSound bit, apparently an early beta of X-Men Children of the Atom that was sent out to stores for demo units had the QSound boot screen as well as the Capcom Arcade logo screen. Later on though it appears they were removed from the final game. So again I'm a bit curious as to why they removed it if it was already there at one point.

http://www.assemblergames.com/forums...Atom-3-00-Beta

Maybe it's something as simple as Capcom getting free use of the product for advertising Qsound on the arcade games? Perhaps Qsound wasn't offering the same deal with the home console ports, so Capcom removed it? Maybe Sega asked that it be removed?

Who knows, but the boxes and discs still have the Qsound tag on them. Even the PSP version of Darkstalkers Chronicles: The Chaos Tower has Qsound on the back of the case, but it's not advertised in the game.

[j_factor]

The PS1 version supports analog control using the neGcon protocol, while the Saturn version is digital only.
This may explain why the game is more unforgiving for driving/handling mistakes in the PS1 version.

I hate the neGcon, and I don't like console steering wheels in general. I didn't know that the Saturn version doesn't support the Arcade Racer. But I don't care either way. And the rest of the series handles like the Saturn version, so that's not the reason.

Do you think the Saturn could have survived to around 99-early 2000 if Stolar hadn't been in control? Isn't it true that the third parties didn't really start jumping ship until he started talking shit about his own product? He seemed to have it out for the Saturn as soon as he came in. Kalinske's early launch did a lot of damage, but I feel like more could have been salvaged from the Saturn. Stolar was like "Well fuck that shit, don't buy it, but still wait for our new console".

Stolar killed the Saturn, but I think 2000 is really pushing it unless Dreamcast comes later.

What's so bad about Sonic Adventure? Yeah it has some bugs in it, but the original Dreamcast version is fine if you ask me. People whine about the stupidest shit with that game these days. Yet 13 years ago you heard no one complaining about it because they were all having a blast playing it. People's dislike for Sonic Adventure seems to stem from the bad Gamecube port and the fact that bashing Sonic became the cool thing to do after Sonic 2006.

We've gone over what's so bad about it. It has nothing to do with the Gamecube port or Sonic 2006. 13 years ago, Sega-16 didn't exist, and you didn't know me. If you did, you would have heard me complaining about it. Well, maybe more like 9 years ago. I first played Sonic Adventure in 1998, on a Japanese launch Dreamcast, but I didn't play it that much. I played it a bit more after the US release, but I didn't get a Dreamcast until 2001, and it was then that I really sat down and gave it a full playthrough. And I definitely complained about the game on forums that I went to in 2001.

I've already beaten the Sonic Adventure dislike horse to death.

Yeah. I like parts of Sonic Adventure, but I think it's a very flawed game. However we've already had that discussion, and I think I've said my piece.

[TrekkiesUnite118]

Maybe it's something as simple as Capcom getting free use of the product for advertising Qsound on the arcade games? Perhaps Qsound wasn't offering the same deal with the home console ports, so Capcom removed it? Maybe Sega asked that it be removed?

Who knows, but the boxes and discs still have the Qsound tag on them. Even the PSP version of Darkstalkers Chronicles: The Chaos Tower has Qsound on the back of the case, but it's not advertised in the game.

Then why would the other home ports have it? It's odd that it's missing in ONLY the Saturn ports. As for Sega asking it to be removed why would they say "please remove that from the Saturn port of Alpha 3 but go a head and put it in the Dreamcast port!"? It doesn't make sense. The Saturn ports may very well be using QSound, but considering the Audio Quality seems to be lower than that of the other ports and there's no QSound boot screens, I'm thinking they may not be using it.

Also of interest on the Saturn SFA3 box is the mention of IMA ADPCM algorithms. This isn't on the PS1 box or the Dreamcast box to my knowledge.

[j_factor]

Then why would the other home ports have it? It's odd that it's missing in ONLY the Saturn ports. As for Sega asking it to be removed why would they say "please remove that from the Saturn port of Alpha 3 but go a head and put it in the Dreamcast port!"? It doesn't make sense. The Saturn ports may very well be using QSound, but considering the Audio Quality seems to be lower than that of the other ports and there's no QSound boot screens, I'm thinking they may not be using it.

Audio quality doesn't have anything to do with Q Sound. A series of beeps can be done in Q Sound. Why would they put the Q Sound logo (and accompanying text) on the back cover, the disc, and the back of the manual, if it's not using Q Sound? What do you think that logo means -- that Q Sound is a thing that exists?

Also of interest on the Saturn SFA3 box is the mention of IMA ADPCM algorithms. This isn't on the PS1 box or the Dreamcast box to my knowledge.

I'm sure the PSX and Dreamcast versions didn't use it.

[Team Andromeda]

It's odd that it's missing in ONLY the Saturn ports

Its in the Saturn ports and you'll see the logo now and again on the end credits . I mean lots of Saturn games used cinepak but it was never displayed on the title screen

Stolar killed the Saturn

Tbf to the man, it was already dead by the time he took over , he was dealt a really bad hand by Tom and Co . True to say that Bernie didn't help matters and messing around with the few 3rd parties you had and killing a machine off before you had anything to go was a mistake

Releasing Shenmue for the Saturn would've been overwhelmingly foolish unless Sega was foolish enough to let a Saturn version near completion in the first place.

If the Marketshare was there it would have come out

Burning Rangers is a fantastic technical achievement

It was there's plenty of great looking Saturn games .

Man, Sonic Adventure and Power Stone were breaths of new life in 3D gaming for me.

Sonic Adv is for me the best Sonic game ever made and still my fav 3D platformer

Rumor has it that it was actually completed twice but was cancelled literally weeks before it was to be released.

Those were put to bed by the Head of AM#2 Hiroshi Kataoka - who confirmed Saturn VF 3 was never finished or really that far into development

I'm really surprised that the shenmue beta ran on stock hardware.

Its true

European Correspondent Ali and his associate Heidi Kemps (a.k.a. Zero-chan) bring us this second Sega developer interview straight from Japan. Very special thanks to Taku Kihara (AM2 PR team) and Shin Ishikawa (Shenmue II Xbox team leader) for taking the time to talk with us.

TNL: First of all we would like to congratulate you on a great year and wish you the best for the new year.
A: AM2: Thank you.

Q: What kind of games do you enjoy playing yourself?
A: I like action games like Mario or RPGs like Dragon Quest.

Q: Have you worked on the previous DC Shenmue games?
A: I have worked on all Shenmue versions.

Q: Can you tell us a little bit more about the unreleased Saturn version? How long had it been worked on, and did it use the experimental Saturn expansion cartridge or the 4meg RAM card?
A: Nearly two years of work was put in the Saturn version. It didn’t use a booster cartridge nor did it use the 4meg RAM card, so yes, the game was programmed for, and the footage seen as an extra on Shenmue II is from the code running on a stock Saturn.

[Bradcap1]

I hate the neGcon, and I don't like console steering wheels in general. I didn't know that the Saturn version doesn't support the Arcade Racer.

My favorite way to play Saturn Wipeout is with the Arcade Racer.

[j_factor]

Well, Barone, what do you say to that?

[Barone]

I hate the neGcon, and I don't like console steering wheels in general. I didn't know that the Saturn version doesn't support the Arcade Racer. But I don't care either way. And the rest of the series handles like the Saturn version, so that's not the reason.

I also hate the neGcon, that was just a comment; I'm actually using an alternative controller like this one:
.

I like steering wheels but, even so, it's not always possible to setup those things to play. Sometimes you just want something more practical.

I didn't know about the rest of the series handling like that, so, point for you and info saved here.

Also of interest on the Saturn SFA3 box is the mention of IMA ADPCM algorithms. This isn't on the PS1 box or the Dreamcast box to my knowledge.

I've read in some places people claiming that the Capcom games used ADPCM 22kHz on the Saturn while they had used XA 32kHz on the PS1.
Any audio/sound expert/hacker around here to help us???

Audio quality doesn't have anything to do with Q Sound. A series of beeps can be done in Q Sound. Why would they put the Q Sound logo (and accompanying text) on the back cover, the disc, and the back of the manual, if it's not using Q Sound? What do you think that logo means -- that Q Sound is a thing that exists?

That's what I said several posts before. Even if it's using just an 8kHz recording of the original arcade board sound, it still can use the logo since the audio was processed by a QSound chip on the arcade board.

My favorite way to play Saturn Wipeout is with the Arcade Racer.

Well, Barone, what do you say to that?

Ouch!

I'm sorry. I'm building lists of neGcon and analog joystick compatible games for the PS1 (the ones available in the major sites are fairly incomplete) and the Wipeout support was sort of "hidden". I'm actually with 12 text files opened at the same time and I just searched here (http://www.digitpress.com/forum/show...=1#post1658844) since it seemed to have a very good list (oriented by codes) for analog support on the Saturn, and, as you can see, Wipeout is not there. So, I'm sorry, I just thought that the given list was fairly complete.
I should have searched a bit more (http://www.digitpress.com/forum/show...-3d-controller) (http://segaretro.org/Arcade_Racer_Jo...upported_games) but I was already overloaded, if you know what I mean.

If I was an idiot, I would try to insist that the PS1 version still has the advantage of analog acceleration and breaking but we both know that Wipeout is not actually the sort of game where this makes much difference.
So, again, I'm sorry and I was wrong and you're right about the Saturn version have being improved/better balanced for the gameplay.


By the way, can you guys help me to confirm if Road Rash has analog support on the Saturn? I've read in two different places people claiming that it has but no dice for me.
People say it's compatible with the mission stick...

[Bradcap1]

Ouch!

I'm sorry. I'm building lists of neGcon and analog joystick compatible games for the PS1 (the ones available in the major sites are fairly incomplete) and the Wipeout support was sort of "hidden". I'm actually with 12 text files opened at the same time and I just searched here (http://www.digitpress.com/forum/show...=1#post1658844) since it seemed to have a very good list (oriented by codes) for analog support on the Saturn, and, as you can see, Wipeout is not there. So, I'm sorry, I just thought that the given list was fairly complete.
I should have searched a bit more (http://www.digitpress.com/forum/show...-3d-controller) (http://segaretro.org/Arcade_Racer_Jo...upported_games) but I was already overloaded, if you know what I mean.

If I was an idiot, I would try to insist that the PS1 version still has the advantage of analog acceleration and breaking but we both know that Wipeout is not actually the sort of game where this makes much difference.
So, again, I'm sorry and I was wrong and you're right about the Saturn version have being improved/better balanced for the gameplay.


By the way, can you guys help me to confirm if Road Rash has analog support on the Saturn? I've read in two different places people claiming that it has but no dice for me.
People say it's compatible with the mission stick...

I'll check Road Rash tonight. As far as Wipeout, I'd say the PS1 and Saturn versions are roughly equal. The Saturn version doesn't bring you to a complete stop when you hit the wall and the PS1 version has a better framerate and nicer power-up effects like the shield. I wouldn't fault anyone for liking one over the other. A matter of personal preference really.
BTW, I'm new around here and unaware of the past history of members. I certainly hope no one is calling you an idiot. That was not my intent.

[Barone]

I'll check Road Rash tonight. As far as Wipeout, I'd say the PS1 and Saturn versions are roughly equal. The Saturn version doesn't bring you to a complete stop when you hit the wall and the PS1 version has a better framerate and nicer power-up effects like the shield. I wouldn't fault anyone for liking one over the other. A matter of personal preference really.

Thanks for the comments and info provided. Yeah, it's a debatable case I think, no definitive winner version.

BTW, I'm new around here and unaware of the past history of members. I certainly hope no one is calling you an idiot. That was not my intent.

I can tell you that you're doing great so far and I think you shouldn't worry about past history of other members... You'll see some bloody discussions from time to time but, usually, people don't do that and/or don't take things too personally.

And, no, in this particular case I think everyone is being quite polite in this thread. I just meant to say that some PS1 fanboy would try to force the analog acceleration/breaking as a definitive advantage...

[gamevet]

How would the PS1 version of Wipeout have analog acceleration? The Dual-Shock didn't have analog triggers and the manual only shows the old controller and mouse support.