The Sega Saturn appreciation thread

[Barone]

The Japanese 1st version Virtua Stick is at least better than the US/Euro version. Same body style, but the Japanese one has a stick fitted with microswitches.

Yeah, the same applies to both 3-Button and 6-Button models of the Mega Drive Arcade Power sticks. I'm still wondering if the US Mission Stick is also made with cheaper parts.

[Cross]

Thanks for the pic!! So the Stick for gens is better to import that too? are there any other items that are better built in japan i should look into getting instead of the US one?

[Zz Badnusty]

I'm still wondering if the US Mission Stick is also made with cheaper parts.

You had asked me about this recently as I plan to compare the Mission Stick games with Sony Dual Analog Joystick games - something I wanted to do over this holiday, but unfortunately I have to travel.
Anyhow, I own the Japanese Mission Stick (Space Harrier bundle) and it doesn't seem like it would possibly have an upgraded build - I handled a US one years ago and I can't imagine any difference.

Cross, it was not uncommon for US peripherals to be manufactured more cheaply than their counterparts sold in Japan. It is a tricky subject to detail however, as many peripherals went through numerous production iterations.
The obvious cases such as the Genesis joysticks and the Saturn Virtua Stick are pretty well known. On the SNES, it is documented that ASCii used cheaper components on their US pads vs the SFC originals.
On the Dreamcast, the early controllers were made in Japan, and we might assume to a higher standard, while the later controllers were manufactured in Taiwan. I think the same is true for Saturn and Genesis pads, originally they were made in Japan, later production was done outside their country. The difference in these pads is negligible AFAIK, however I do have some later Genesis 3-button controllers (with the short cord) and they feel noticeably cheaper.

[Barone]

You had asked me about this recently as I plan to compare the Mission Stick games with Sony Dual Analog Joystick games - something I wanted to do over this holiday, but unfortunately I have to travel.
Anyhow, I own the Japanese Mission Stick (Space Harrier bundle) and it doesn't seem like it would possibly have an upgraded build - I handled a US one years ago and I can't imagine any difference.

Cross, it was not uncommon for US peripherals to be manufactured more cheaply than their counterparts sold in Japan. It is a tricky subject to detail however, as many peripherals went through numerous production iterations.
The obvious cases such as the Genesis joysticks and the Saturn Virtua Stick are pretty well known. On the SNES, it is documented that ASCii used cheaper components on their US pads vs the SFC originals.
On the Dreamcast, the early controllers were made in Japan, and we might assume to a higher standard, while the later controllers were manufactured in Taiwan. I think the same is true for Saturn and Genesis pads, originally they were made in Japan, later production was done outside their country. The difference in these pads is negligible AFAIK, however I do have some later Genesis 3-button controllers (with the short cord) and they feel noticeably cheaper.

Thanks for the info.
Japanese manufactured controllers usually have better quality parts compared to all other ones (it doesn't mean that there isn't any good models outside Japan). Even if you compare Hori made in Japan vs Hori made in CHina you'll find abysmal differences at times.

[zetastrike]

Can anyone tell me if these SNK games will work on a NA Saturn with an Action Replay cart? I've heard some of them are weird about it and I want to make sure before I order any of them. Thanks!

KOF 97
Real Bout Special
Samurai Spirits 3 and 4

[Bradcap1]

Can anyone tell me if these SNK games will work on a NA Saturn with an Action Replay cart? I've heard some of them are weird about it and I want to make sure before I order any of them. Thanks!

KOF 97
Real Bout Special
Samurai Spirits 3 and 4

Not sure about SS3 but if you're talking about Real Bout Fatal Fury Special the other 3 work fine with an AR. Not trying to be snobby at all regarding the name. Just want to be sure we're talking about the same game. I've heard that KOF 96 has issues with the AR as does the non-special versions of real bout.

[sheath]

Regarding Omega Boost. No it wouldn't, just no. Its got alpha transparency effects everywhere. Or are we just going to use that magic bullet VDP2 Burning Rangers transparencies to render everything? And bring an already fluctuating but fast paced action title down to even more of a standstill on the Saturns hardware?

I finally found a reasonably priced copy of Omega Boost. This game is really cool first off, and I want to say that it is 60FPS as well, at least I don't see any blurring or stuttering going on with all of the quick panning and spinning. It is very impressive to see. As for the effects though, man all of the polygons have that full screen dithering over them and the transparencies have them too. There is also a lot of seaming and tearing and texture popping and draw in going on. Freaking cool game, but it is mostly a flat background that the VDP2 would have wiped the floor with and I think Virtual On is easily throwing around just as many polygons, and if it isn't nobody would ever know the better. I don't know whether the VDP1 3D stuff couldn't have managed to pull off the transparent effects but with all of the dithering I'm seeing on screen I doubt it would have looked any worse with meshed transparencies.

I'm glad this game has come up enough in discussions that I actually noticed it on the shelf today. It is a proper pick up and play Action game for the PS1 and I need more of those.

[TVC 15]

I finally found a reasonably priced copy of Omega Boost. This game is really cool first off, and I want to say that it is 60FPS as well, at least I don't see any blurring or stuttering going on with all of the quick panning and spinning. It is very impressive to see. As for the effects though, man all of the polygons have that full screen dithering over them and the transparencies have them too. There is also a lot of seaming and tearing and texture popping and draw in going on. Freaking cool game, but it is mostly a flat background that the VDP2 would have wiped the floor with and I think Virtual On is easily throwing around just as many polygons, and if it isn't nobody would ever know the better. I don't know whether the VDP1 3D stuff couldn't have managed to pull off the transparent effects but with all of the dithering I'm seeing on screen I doubt it would have looked any worse with meshed transparencies.

I'm glad this game has come up enough in discussions that I actually noticed it on the shelf today. It is a proper pick up and play Action game for the PS1 and I need more of those.

Man I was being harsh toward the Saturn before christmas, haha. Glad your enjoying Omega Boost, Sheath. It really irked me we never got anything as fluid as some of the later PS1 action titles on Saturn. You can see hints of what could have been during the cut-scenes in Panzer Dragoon Zwei, where every things running at a super zippy 60fps.

I think what detracts from a lot of Saturn 3D titles is easily missed stuff like less dynamic camera angles, since all we have is Sega's output and some lesser Japanese centric 3rd party stuff doing decent 3D you have to create some figurative idea in your head of where Sega could have gone. Sony always had that level of professionalism on its few big budget 1st/2nd party stuff, and a lot of the better 3rd party stuff that covered up the limited rendering performance of the hardware.

Before I had to sell my Saturn off last spring I started biting into on a lot of the Japanese Mountain/Street Racing type games, where the Saturn is surprisingly well represented and despite being fairly solid technically they just completely lack flare and pizazz, with dull uninspired game assets. The PSX perception thus goes back then to how well Sony tapped into popular culture, and added all that fluff and hollywood to game aesthetic along with the confidence developers where gaining with early 3D hardware and game design.

[Moirai]

Does anybody have video footage of the game Derby Stallion?

[TheSonicRetard]

does any one have a pic of the better Virtua Stick? or what model number is?

To expand upon Barone's pic, the japanese Virtua Stick model 2 is commonly referred to by its model number - HSS-0136.

There is also the HSS-0130 which is a dual player setup that is made to look like a blast city cabinet that has yet another different button layout, and is supposedly a higher quality build. But those usually go for $300+.

[TheSonicRetard]

Man I was being harsh toward the Saturn before christmas, haha. Glad your enjoying Omega Boost, Sheath. It really irked me we never got anything as fluid as some of the later PS1 action titles on Saturn. You can see hints of what could have been during the cut-scenes in Panzer Dragoon Zwei, where every things running at a super zippy 60fps.

I think what detracts from a lot of Saturn 3D titles is easily missed stuff like less dynamic camera angles, since all we have is Sega's output and some lesser Japanese centric 3rd party stuff doing decent 3D you have to create some figurative idea in your head of where Sega could have gone. Sony always had that level of professionalism on its few big budget 1st/2nd party stuff, and a lot of the better 3rd party stuff that covered up the limited rendering performance of the hardware.

Before I had to sell my Saturn off last spring I started biting into on a lot of the Japanese Mountain/Street Racing type games, where the Saturn is surprisingly well represented and despite being fairly solid technically they just completely lack flare and pizazz, with dull uninspired game assets. The PSX perception thus goes back then to how well Sony tapped into popular culture, and added all that fluff and hollywood to game aesthetic along with the confidence developers where gaining with early 3D hardware and game design.

I suggest you try out Wipeout 2097 if you're itching to see the saturn do better 3D. Despite running at 5 fps lower than the PSX counter part, it's still one of the best examples of Saturn 3D. Playing with the racing wheel is awesome, too.

[TVC 15]

I suggest you try out Wipeout 2097 if you're itching to see the saturn do better 3D. Despite running at 5 fps lower than the PSX counter part, it's still one of the best examples of Saturn 3D. Playing with the racing wheel is awesome, too.

I had Wipeout 2097 about 10 years ago or so, it was the PAL version however so I'm not sure if it was optimised for 50hz, so cant comment on its speed. Bought Wipeout 1 from my local game shop and they put the wrong disc in, they also pulled that trick on me when I bought Street Fighter Alpha 2 and I returned home to find SF Alpha .

From memory it wasn't bad looking at all, I thought the wireframe mode looked cool and the Cold Storage tracks where underrated. I've found that most cross-platform games that didn't use gourad shading or light sourcing felt competitive with Playstation counterparts, shame some of the eye candy had to be turned off. Robo-Pit is a game I'd like to see a comparison on, lots of big blocky shaded polys but it looks awesome on Saturn, I've not seen the PS1 version.

Oh well have to wait until I get some permanent work, had to sell my grey JPN saturn and collection earlier last year, my girlfriend thought I was going to have a nervous breakdown seeing me pack all that up to go!

[sheath]

[TheSonicRetard]

I had Wipeout 2097 about 10 years ago or so, it was the PAL version however so I'm not sure if it was optimised for 50hz, so cant comment on its speed. Bought Wipeout 1 from my local game shop and they put the wrong disc in, they also pulled that trick on me when I bought Street Fighter Alpha 2 and I returned home to find SF Alpha .

From memory it wasn't bad looking at all, I thought the wireframe mode looked cool and the Cold Storage tracks where underrated. I've found that most cross-platform games that didn't use gourad shading or light sourcing felt competitive with Playstation counterparts, shame some of the eye candy had to be turned off. Robo-Pit is a game I'd like to see a comparison on, lots of big blocky shaded polys but it looks awesome on Saturn, I've not seen the PS1 version.

Oh well have to wait until I get some permanent work, had to sell my grey JPN saturn and collection earlier last year, my girlfriend thought I was going to have a nervous breakdown seeing me pack all that up to go!

Wipeout 2097 on the PSX actually had light sourcing, and they faked it on the saturn by darkening the palette of the textures on your ship when they went through tunnels. It didn't affect any other racer, but when you're playing it's not noticeable.

Quite a few saturn games have light sourcing, but it's an effect that's incompatible with the way the PSX and N64 do light sourcing and vice versa. That's pretty much the SOP for saturn 3D engines. If you build the stuff from the ground up for the saturn, there are lots of unique tricks it can do that the PSX or N64 couldn't do, but the opposite always applies as well.

[zetastrike]

Is there any way of telling of your PAR cart is complatible with Vampire Savior? It won't work with a lot of them, right?