The Sega Saturn appreciation thread

[Barone]

Feels like Breetai is not alone; I found this.

I eventually added this game to my humble Saturn library… but it came at a price (aside from the $40 I paid). That price was the startling revelation that the Saturn version was not a more precise port of the arcade, and thus, the game in many respects was NOT even a better translation than what was offered on competitive platform. I still remember my impressions of this version when I began playing it. I was pretty surprised at the long load times. The missing frames of animation that, while not in the amount missing on the PS1, was still quite considerable. But perhaps the most shocking thing to me was how much this version was plagued by slowdown, of which I never experienced on the PS1 version to such extent. The revelation did not end here although I wish it had. It appeared, to the words of many; to achieve a more precise more improved version would require a RAM cart to enable the game’s optional “3MB mode”. So I quickly popped in that wonderful 4 MB Action Replay all us Saturn owners know so well, waiting to play this improved version firsthand as I started up the game (MSH with 3MB mode ON). “What the F…!” That was really one of my first comments as soon as I began to play the game in this setup. Load times were now even longer than before, game speed was more inconsistent with each arcade mode opponent I fought and to top it off, none of those scenarios that created slowdown without the RAM cart enabled were alleviated… It’s STILL THERE now more than ever just waiting to throw off my extended combos and effectively halting my enjoyment of the game.

His final analysis (edited/shortened):
Let’s get to the heart of the matter and take a look at these observations I’ve taken from both versions of MSH…

1.On the Saturn, the music will stop for a few seconds and re-loop the track after extended rounds. PS1 does not suffer from this.

2.The overall picture on the Saturn is blown up making the characters appear larger on screen. I’ve noticed this trend on quite a few other Capcom fighters on the Saturn, although it’s worth noting that few of those games provide an option to revert the screen size back to it native size (sadly, MSH is not one of these games). PS1 version does not inherit this issue.

3.As a result of the issue just previously mentioned, by default the game’s HUD is altered from what is seen on both arcade and PS1 version. On the Saturn, the character portraits are position right below the life bars. There isn’t an option to have these portraits placed on their accurate location on the screen much like what you see in the arcade version. The best and only alternative available is to remove said portraits from the HUD entirely via a toggle switch found in the Options menu marked as “PANEL”. Once again the PS1 version does not suffer from this.

4.Perhaps one of the most ignored, yet glaringly obvious issue found in MSH on Saturn is how the Infinity Gem Shuffle command was delegated on the Saturn controller. In the arcade this command was mapped to the Start button. On the Saturn this command performed by the simultaneous press of both shoulder buttons on the controller. This is a huge problem simply because it overlaps both 3xP and 3xK commands that are mapped to each of the shoulder buttons. On the PS1, the command is adequately assigned to the select button with no overlapping of additional actions outside of a taunt command (exactly like the arcade).

5.Audio! There is a distinct difference in sound quality in each version of MSH. The music and particularly the character vocals and sound effects sound rather muffled on the Saturn. Consequently few audio effects for some strange reason are absent. The splash audio effect is inexplicably absent. The same goes for the audio effect of the bridge falling down the waterfall alongside your defeated opponent after the end of the match. There is no proper audio effect like what is heard in the arcade. The PS1 version keeps these 2 effects intact while also sounding significantly better overall in the audio department. Additionally, the PS1 version also has a much appreciated volume adjusters in the Options menu for both music and effects (I’ve always noticed how other Capcom PS1 fighters have this feature over the same games on the Saturn).

6.Another welcoming option the PS1 version has over its competitor is a “Screen Adjust” option allowing proper adjustment of games picture across a variety of screen types and sizes. This option comes in particularly handy when playing the game on an official PSone LCD screen as everything displayed on that thing is always positioned slightly to the right of the LCD screen (anyone else noticed this on their PSone LCDs?).

7.Loading times. This one is a touchy subject because the Saturn has two distinct verdicts in this category but ultimately falls flat on its back in both cases. There are 3 Major loading screens throughout MSH… loading into a match/ loading out of a match/ loading out of the win quote screen. In all 3 screens, loading is longer on the Saturn than on PS1. If you play without 3MB MODE the differences between both versions is quite frankly, negligible but PS1 version is still faster than. If the game is played with 3MB MODE enabled, the load times get WAY longer!

8.Graphics. The Saturn version of MSH has the upper hand over the PS1 version. To get more in depth let’s talk about the visuals with and without Ram Cart enabled. Without a Ram Cart the game does have plenty of frames of animation missing much like the PS1 version although the Saturn has a few additional frames over what is seen on the PS1 (you won’t notice them unless you really make an effort to look at stuff like this), this also includes smoother, additional frames of animation on the hit and collision sprites that appear from attacks. The more noticeable differences in visuals come from the backgrounds of the game. A lot of the more elaborate effects and additional touches that are seen in the arcade version remain on the Saturn for the most part while same cannot be said for the PS1 version. Unfortunately a lot of animation frames are still not restored to arcade accuracy especially on the larger characters. All in all this is the only category that the Saturn trumps the PS1 version…

9.Slowdown. Both versions suffer from slowdown, no bones about it, although both suffer from the problem quite differently. For the Saturn version, slowdown creeps its ugly head in more instances than the PS1 version. Where the Saturn is REALLY crippled by slowdown is from air combos being performed on the corner. The timing on your attack strings are thrown out the window as a result, it’s that bad! This in my opinion is what ultimately ruins the gameplay experience on the Saturn. This game is all about combos, particularly air combos.
As mentioned previously, the Saturn versions attack and collision sprite effects are well animated with little to no cut frames in their animation. The same effects on the PS1 are very clear cut and animate incredibly quick due to so many frames being omitted.
The way the Saturn version performs in these circumstances makes it hard to damn near impossible to perform these actions under such volatile conditions that the Saturn version brings to the table due to the game’s performance.



Item 5. is very similar to what happens with MKII when comparing Saturn and PS1 versions.

The KoF games are better on the Saturn than they are on the PS1 as well. Again not Neo Geo perfect, they are pretty darn close.

This is not true for KOF '97.

[TrekkiesUnite118]

Yeah I saw that, but a lot of his complaints come off as being really bitchy about minor things. He says the Saturn image is blown up, my question is are they really blown up or are the PS1 sprites smaller than the Saturn ones? That would explain the HUD issue since neither the Saturn or the PS1 support the funky 384x224 resolution the CPS2 hardware uses.

The portraits fit on the side in the Arcade because there's more horizontal space to have them. On the Saturn you have less space, so if you use the full size Arcade graphics things wont fit. I'm pretty sure in other comparisons of CPS2 ports the Saturn usually uses the larger Arcade size sprites where as the PS1 port uses slightly scaled down sprites, which would explain the HUD issue. So if that is the case I'd say we can scratch complaints 2 and 3 off that list.

The audio I'd say is fair to bring up, though if I remember correctly the Saturn CPS2 ports use the Arcade samples where as the PS1 ports use new samples taken from the master audio tapes. So while the Saturn Sound Effects don't sound as good as the PS1 version, they are still on par with the Arcade version which is acceptable. It's not like they sound like the Genesis SF2 voices. So while it is an issue, it's not a major issue in my book.

The load times I will again say are a fair issue, but at the same time the Saturn is loading more data than the PS1. It's a shame it wasn't fully optimized for the RAM cart. And the slowdown is an odd one, while the game does have it I've seen other people who have done side by side comparisons say the PS1 version slows down more. Again that person on Racketboy is using an AR cart, perhaps it's a similar issue with Metal Slug. The person who does the battle of the ports videos at SegaSaturn.co.uk in his comparison said the PS1 version tends to slowdown more in hectic fights. And his video appears to back that up.

So really the only complaints I'd say are valid there are the audio ones, the control ones, and possibly the slowdown.

EDIT:

The resolution is the exact reason for the HUD issue. The Saturn image isn't blown up, it's simply using the Arcade size sprites.

Arcade:


Saturn:


I can't find a PS1 shot at the moment. Anyone with the ability to get one care to post one for comparison?

[Barone]

Again that person on Racketboy is using an AR cart, perhaps it's a similar issue with Metal Slug.

Yeah, it would be cool if someone could check if there's performance differences using the AR cart and the official 4MB cart.

The person who does the battle of the ports videos at SegaSaturn.co.uk in his comparison said the PS1 version tends to slowdown more in hectic fights. And his video appears to back that up.

The fact that he uses PAL versions completely ditches his conclusions to me when it comes to how the games run. PAL optimization can very a lot between different versions of the games. Several PS1 games aren't optimized at all.

[TrekkiesUnite118]

I see your point with the PAL issue, still though it's a side by side comparison. But the HUD issue is definitely due to resolution. And unless the PS1 port runs at the same 384x224 that the Arcade version runs at, I'm going to say it's using smaller sprites than the Saturn and Arcade versions.

[Barone]

Hey, Trekkies, look (from here) (I have also read a similar discussion in another forum):

i have the import version of marvel super heroes for the sega saturn and noticed it is a lot slower than the U.S version for the playstation. I tried using the 4meg ram cart and checked the options to see it was turned on but the game still plays the same. Hardly any difference at all. Should I have gotten the U.S version for the sega saturn instead of the japanese version? I read great reviews about how the saturn version is superior to the playstation’s but is this true only on the U.S Marvel Super heroes?

I want to reply to the guy with the Marvel Super Heroes slowdown with the 4MB cart. It’s a known problem that the 4MB cart actually slows down the game – something with the added frames of animation or something. Better to play Marvel Super Heroes without the RAM cart. Just thought you all should know.

Marvel Super Heroes – it uses the 1MB ram cart (optionally), and NOT the 4MB ram cart. This is the reason why the 4MB ram cart causes it to slow down.

With the 1 MB ram cart in place, go to options screen of the game and turn on the 3mb ram mode.

Additional frames of animation for all the characters will be added, making the game look smoother. Loading times are somewhat decreased as well. Its still not arcade perfect, but it is noticeably better that both the PS1 version and default Saturn configuration without the 1mb ram cart.

Satakore also mentions the 1MB RAM cart support, so I'll assume that it would be the right option.
I think we need to do a proper comparison with both NTSC versions of the games and both RAM cart options on the Saturn (some people also say that there are speed differences between the US and JP versions of the Saturn game; something about the US version being optimized to run without the RAM cart; the US version was released almost 2 months after the JP one, it's not totally impossible that the developers have fixed some issues for the US release).

But the HUD issue is definitely due to resolution. And unless the PS1 port runs at the same 384x224 that the Arcade version runs at, I'm going to say it's using smaller sprites than the Saturn and Arcade versions.

I agree about this, I just forgot to reply.
The use of smaller sprites is something common in PS1 2D fighting ports.

[TrekkiesUnite118]

That makes a lot of sense now, that's probably why it says 3MB RAM mode as it's 2 MB internal memory + 1 MB RAM cart.

[Barone]

That makes a lot of sense now, that's probably why it says 3MB RAM mode as it's 2 MB internal memory + 1 MB RAM cart.

I also think that this is the proper interpretation (while most of people seems to think that 3MB RAM would refer to the 4MB RAM cart, but it makes no sense IMO).

[Hidden_Darkness]

Any opinions on Game Tengoku?

I have game tengoku, it's a good shooter thats very entertaining but a bit on the short side. I really like the fact that it takes place in a arcade. it's worth buying if you can find it for a good price.

[Da_Shocker]

SO of all the KOF ports on the Saturn, I take it that 97 is the worse?

[Moirai]

Anybody else really like Panzer Dragoon Zwei? I've been playing it recently and the graphics are impressive. Would the Playstation or N64 even be able to handle all the sprite scaling that game does on some levels?

[Hidden_Darkness]

Anybody else really like Panzer Dragoon Zwei? I've been playing it recently and the graphics are impressive. Would the Playstation or N64 even be able to handle all the sprite scaling that game does on some levels?

I like it but the 2 panzer dragoon shooter games really kick my ass because their so difficult.

[Moirai]

I like it but the 2 panzer dragoon shooter games really kick my ass because their so difficult.

I'm at episode 5 so far. It's pretty hard. One thing i cant figure out is how to choose the alternate route in a level.. how do you do that?

[Hidden_Darkness]

I'm at episode 5 so far. It's pretty hard. One thing i cant figure out is how to choose the alternate route in a level.. how do you do that?

I'm not really sure about the alternate route, I haven't played it enough to get that far yet. I've only gotten to level 3. do you have a original xbox? there's a panzer dragoon game for it that plays like the saturn games called panzer dragoon orta that you might like.

[TrekkiesUnite118]

Not all stages have alternate routes. Stages 2, 3, and 4 I know have them. For stage 2 at the fork in the canyon move towards the left or the right to choose a different route. In Stage 3 it's a similar deal. There's a fork and you move left or right. Stage 4 is a bit different. At the very beginning stay towards the top and you'll take route 3. If you stay towards the bottom you'll take route 1 and later on have a chance to pick route 2.

[j_factor]

I'm at episode 5 so far. It's pretty hard. One thing i cant figure out is how to choose the alternate route in a level.. how do you do that?

There is a point in the level where the path forks. You're not required to do anything; the game will nudge you in a direction if you don't choose.

edit: what Trekkies said.