Is TMNT for the NES really as bad as I think?

[Robotwo]

Because if there's an easier way without any major consequences one will most likely take it.

NES games were short after all, but they were hard and unforgiving in many ways.
If they would be a breeze to get through then people wouldn't have to rent them more than once
(which apparently was pretty common)

[StarMist]

Can anyone who has actually beaten it give me a difficulty comparison against games such as:

-Castlevania
-Jackal
-Super Mario Bros
-Chip N Dale Rescue Rangers
-TMNT Arcade

i.e.- Perhaps, if you're able, put them in order of difficulty including TMNT (1). I'd be much obliged.

(1) - TMNT
(1a) - Castlevania. I don't play much Castlevania so am bad at all CV, the only I finished was Super. I had to stop at stage 17 so if there are many more stages after that it's probably no easier than TMNT.
(2) - TMNT Arcade
(3) - SMB w/o warps.
(4) - Jackal
(5) - SMB w/ warps.
(6) - Chip n Dale. Quite an easy game until the tricky boss.

[Iron Lizard]

Because if there's an easier way without any major consequences one will most likely take it.

NES games were short after all, but they were hard and unforgiving in many ways.
If they would be a breeze to get through then people wouldn't have to rent them more than once
(which apparently was pretty common)

Ans so what if that is true? That argument still has never made any sense to me. Its like people talk about unlimited continues like its immoral or clubbing baby seals. Who gives a crap? I don't have the time now and I didn't have the skill then. I play a lot Mame and puzzle games.

Renting was not common until the end of the 80's. The NES came in 1985. More common was Kids taking advantage of the Toys'R'Us return policy that had in the US and returning a crappy games which is even worse for the company selling it. I remember being an 8 year old kid and randomly picking games solely on the cover. At $35 a pop hopefully a kid would get a game like Wizards and Warriors with Unlimited continues as opposed to something crappy like Star Voyager.

[Robotwo]

The thing is the game was made back then and not now, it was targeted towards kids that had plenty of time and needed to get much out of an otherwise short game.
Not saying unlimited continues is a bad thing, as long as it's done in a way that doesn't make the game way too casual.

I'm just saying that TMNT2 and TMNT3 for NES probably would've been WAY too easy if you were given unlimited continues and a kid back then could've plowed through it in 1-2 hours.
Compared to for example SF 2010 which was hard BUT had unlimited continues, so you still had to make your way through frustratingly hard levels, but had no real reason to stop.
That probably wouldn't have justified the pricetag in a kid's eyes and they might've even been let down.

You gotta' take into consideration what the target audience was and how often they really got games back then.
You got a new game maybe like once or twice a year, unless you were spoiled

[goldenband]

TMNT wouldn't be that much easier with unlimited continues, would it? The problem (at least for me) is Stage 6, and conventional wisdom has it that the way to pass that stage is to load up on scrolls in earlier stages.

[Iron Lizard]

The thing is the game was made back then and not now, it was targeted towards kids that had plenty of time and needed to get much out of an otherwise short game.
Not saying unlimited continues is a bad thing, as long as it's done in a way that doesn't make the game way too casual.

I'm just saying that TMNT2 and TMNT3 for NES probably would've been WAY too easy if you were given unlimited continues and a kid back then could've plowed through it in 1-2 hours.
Compared to for example SF 2010 which was hard BUT had unlimited continues, so you still had to make your way through frustratingly hard levels, but had no real reason to stop.
That probably wouldn't have justified the pricetag in a kid's eyes and they might've even been let down.

You gotta' take into consideration what the target audience was and how often they really got games back then.
You got a new game maybe like once or twice a year, unless you were spoiled

I was that target audience and it bugged me more then than it does now. And yes I got games twice a year, on my birthday and Christmas and that wasn't always a certainty. The games my friends and I played all the time in the 80's games like Contra (thirty life code), Wizards & Warriors (unlimited continues), Zelda (dying didn't matter) Punch Out (codes) and Ice Hockey. One of my friends older brothers was a hard core gamer and could beat Mega Man blind folded but he was the exception. Maybe I lived in microcosm of bad gamers.

[QuickSciFi]

(1) - TMNT
(1a) - Castlevania. I don't play much Castlevania so am bad at all CV, the only I finished was Super. I had to stop at stage 17 so if there are many more stages after that it's probably no easier than TMNT.
(2) - TMNT Arcade
(3) - SMB w/o warps.
(4) - Jackal
(5) - SMB w/ warps.
(6) - Chip n Dale. Quite an easy game until the tricky boss.

Thanks for understanding what I meant and putting them in order. But I'm confused, though. Which did you mean was most difficult? No 1 or No 6?

[MrSega]

Well having unlimited continues probably wouldn't make it very enjoyable in the least considering it's fairly easy.
So having limited continues actually helps making it challenging.

While I respect your opinion, I sort of disagree of TMNT IV. That game was superb and replayable. The "unlimited continues" feature is what caused it to sell like mad back in '92

[MrSega]

TMNT wouldn't be that much easier with unlimited continues, would it? The problem (at least for me) is Stage 6, and conventional wisdom has it that the way to pass that stage is to load up on scrolls in earlier stages.

The game would have be at least fair if it let you have at least 3 continues. But because its stupid hard and annoying, and has no continues at all, its completely unfair.

Stage 3 scarred me for life. I screamed bloody murder at that Airport stage trying to get past that hole and having to waste my damn 7 year old time killing all the enemies that kept respawning.

Also:



What the HELL is this? Why on Earth would a programmer place a Pizza near moving spike walls knowing damn well its impossible to get?

[StarMist]

Thanks for understanding what I meant and putting them in order. But I'm confused, though. Which did you mean was most difficult? No 1 or No 6?

1 is hardest. Actually after TMNT 2 (which gives me more trouble than most people) I'd say they're all avg to easy despite Jackal's potential for quick disasters. Chip n Dale's sort of weird how it ends, the boss is too hard compared to the rest of the game, which isn't to say it's hard by normal standards but it can take you off guard since even the last levels in the game are a breeze. The 2nd game's more consistent and challenging overall. FWIW I'll very unlikely ever complete CV and there are lots of easier titles than TMNT I won't finish either.

[Armoured Priest]

Can anyone who has actually beaten it give me a difficulty comparison against games such as:

-Castlevania
-Jackal
-Super Mario Bros
-Chip N Dale Rescue Rangers
-TMNT Arcade

i.e.- Perhaps, if you're able, put them in order of difficulty including TMNT (1). I'd be much obliged.

Can't really comment on Jackal or Chip n Dale (I think I played maybe 30 mins total of Jackal, and maybe an hour of Chip n Dale. I never owned either game).

I'd say TMNT is just slightly more difficult then Castlevania, but I don't find TMNT hold up as well. Also, if you're going to play TMNT play it on an actual NES. At least for me, every time I play it on an emulator (any emulator, including the VC version), the control feels off...like its a little sluggish. I tried the dam level on the VC and had a hell of a time...popped in my NES copy to make sure I wasn't imagining it, and got through in one try.\

After that I'd say TMNT arcade followed by SMBros (I still use SMB as a base line for comparing difficulty. I consider SMB with no warps as base-line average, and adjucate all other games from there up or down.

[sayewonn]

I wouldn't really call TMNT a piece of shit but its issues do bring it down a few pegs. I reviewed it last year, if anyone is interested in my thoughts on the game: http://www.retrogameage.com/?p=1861

[goldenband]

The game would have be at least fair if it let you have at least 3 continues. But because its stupid hard and annoying, and has no continues at all, its completely unfair.

That's not accurate, I don't think? If memory serves it offers 2 continues.

What the HELL is this? Why on Earth would a programmer place a Pizza near moving spike walls knowing damn well its impossible to get?

That's not unusual at all -- I've played loads of games that put tempting items in deadly locations. The Mega Man games do the same thing.

I dunno, personally I never really found the first 5 levels of TMNT that hard at all. The control takes a bit of getting used to, but the guy in the video you linked clearly hasn't gotten it down -- he keeps overshooting the ledges. I don't remember having a major issue with the deathtraps (let alone Stage 2, which people often lament but which is easy as hell). Stage 3 was a little tricky, and Stage 4 started to get demanding, but both had a couple places where you could regain energy and turtles. Stage 5 got tough but was still doable with patience (going back for respawning pizzas) and some luck (not randomly getting the nastiest enemies), and I repeatedly passed it.

But Stage 6 seemed impossible at the time, and I never beat it on real hardware. The flying enemies with jetpacks and lasers, oof...

[jerry coeurl]

Chip n' Dale is probably the easiest NES game I've played, and compared to most NES games I'd consider it to be exceptionally easy. The last boss is kinda tricky, as StarMist mentioned, but I still wouldn't consider it "hard" in the slightest. I think I beat it the second time I turned it on.

Fun game, though, and the co-op is great.

[MrMatthews]

I'll very unlikely ever complete CV and there are lots of easier titles than TMNT I won't finish either.

This from the guy who beat Battletoads...

I don't believe Castlevania is as hard as people make it out to be. It has some spectacularly bitch sections, but it also has unlimited continues. If it wasn't for the fact that my game kept freezing up, I'd have had that one under my belt a few months ago. Try it and see for yourself.

Why aren't you guys discussing Ninja Gaiden, though? Neither one of you consider that one hard?