Did the Wii U launch fall flat on its face?

[KitsuneNight]

If we ever learn anything from video games I hope its that the pictures don't have to be realistic as long as you know what its supposed to be.

i think we all know that one
this is sega 16 after all

the 16 bit graphics are the fine line between fantastical and "realistic"

[EclecticGroove]

They do look pretty.But I think the heart of gaming suffers when that's all that matters.

To me, this is not an issue of the graphics looking "too good". It's an issue of what they choose to portray. Look at the movie avatar (despite how you may or may not feel about the movie itself). The visuals in that were realistic, but very "unreal"... that is something many games don't seem to go for anymore... but there is no reason why a game can't have the "realistic" graphics of a modern AAA game and yet portray something completely fantastic.

And of course you can use that graphical power to display something with great quality but completely unrealistic in any way as well.

[JCU]

What system are you playing The Lost & Damned on?

I've played GTAIV on the 360 and had no issues with it. I then played TLAD on the PS3 and felt that it looked like ass in comparison to the 360 game. Are the issues with the PS3 version, also present on the 360 version of TLAD? I would have thought that it would perform the same as the original GTAIV, since they are running on the same game engine. I figured the issues with the PS3 version of TLAD had to do with the limited VRAM of the PS3 (256 MB vs 512 MB for the 360).

On the 360 of course. For what the game is (size, detail, features, etc..,) it plays very well but it does have hiccups every now and again and I think that's the point here. It's an immersive game that plays well but has some minor issues every now and again.

The new V supposedly has an area three times that of Red Dead Redemption and an overall size larger than RDR, IV and San Andreas combined. With size comes detail, effects, etc.., which will require some nice power to handle. I'd like to think the Wii U would be able to handle it but I'm not feeling hopeful.

In regards to the topic at hand, Nintendo looks to have started seriously addressing it's apparent lack of advertising for the Wii U that we've seen in the past few months. Full page ads in mainstream magazines are being seen as well as a nice thirty page thick stock booklet that I first saw this morning at a B&M store which clearly defines the differences between the Wii and the U along with its features. Better late than never I guess.

[kool kitty89]

Even though the Wii U is slightly more powerful (in theory) than the PS3 and 360, it still has to stream video to the pad. I believe that the fact that the Wii U has to spend resources to steam video the the gamepad takes away most of the hardware advantages it has over the PS3 and 360.

Really depends on how the gamepad is used in a game. Technically, it shouldn't eat up resources unless he developer is willing to push that sort of thing on the gamepad. (and it's not a matter of streaming, but rendering the 2nd screen . . . more like a multi-monitor PC set-up)

On games not taxing on the 2nd screen end of things, the CPU is the biggest liability in the console.

This video shows a comparison of the 360, PS3 and Wii U playing Mass Effect 3. The 360 version clearly has the most solid frame-rate of the 3 consoles, with the PS3 taking the biggest hit. Yeah, Mass Effect 3 was designed around the 360 hardware, but the Wii U's hardware should be at an advantage here, with its better CPU and VRAM.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EopiqKacEP0

What better CPU? Wii U CPU doesn't compare very favorably with the Xenon, except in performance per watt perhaps. (higher IPC will help, but the clock speed is just so much lower . . . and then there's the trickier comparison of the SIMD/vector instructions -beyond the game logic and AI bottlnecks on the ALU end)

[gamevet]

Really depends on how the gamepad is used in a game. Technically, it shouldn't eat up resources unless he developer is willing to push that sort of thing on the gamepad. (and it's not a matter of streaming, but rendering the 2nd screen . . . more like a multi-monitor PC set-up)

On games not taxing on the 2nd screen end of things, the CPU is the biggest liability in the console.

The system is designed to output to the gamepad when not playing on a television, so it more than likely adds some sort of additional tasks on the CPU that you wouldn't normally have on the other 2 consoles. It's not like the screen is blank while playing games, is it?

What better CPU? Wii U CPU doesn't compare very favorably with the Xenon, except in performance per watt perhaps. (higher IPC will help, but the clock speed is just so much lower . . . and then there's the trickier comparison of the SIMD/vector instructions -beyond the game logic and AI bottlnecks on the ALU end)

The 360's Power PC CPU operates at 3.2 GHz while utilizing a single core. When it uses multiple cores, the clock speed drops to 1.6 Ghz, compared to the PPC7's 1.25 Ghz with the Wii U. Supposedly, it is more efficient and has less latency because of how everything is built closer within the design. It's supposed to be at least on-par with the current hardware, but the current software hasn't shown anything to indicate that it is. The Cell is more powerful than the CPU in the 360, but very few programmers are able to take advantage of what it can do.

[JCU]

The system is designed to output to the gamepad when not playing on a television, so it more than likely adds some sort of additional tasks on the CPU that you wouldn't normally have on the other 2 consoles.

If I understand your statement correctly, than yes, the system is designed for that but not every game utilizes it unfortunately. With many of the games the pad isn't really doing much to enhance the game. Also, you don't seem to have developers allowing you to play their game(s) on the pad alone and that was advertised as a big strength. Recall the video of a Japanese player who is playing something and then he pauses so he could watch soccer on the television while still playing the video game on the pad.

Of course it is effecting the cpu to some degree. I think it's only logical, right? How much is a different story though. Media touched on this before and during the launch.

[mrbigreddog]

Also, you don't seem to have developers allowing you to play their game(s) on the pad alone and that was advertised as a big strength.

Uhh... Yeah the do...

Batman Arkham City
Call of Duty Black Ops 2
Injustice
Super Mario Bros. Wii U
Rayman Demo
Trine 2 Directors Cut

And all Virtual Console games let you play on gamepad only mode.

There are more, but those are just the ones I own that for sure do!

Monster Hunter just released a patch to be able to play on gamepad only.

I rented a few games too.. And I'd say about 90% of games will work on gamepad only mode.

ZombiU doesn't, sadly. And it's stupid since you're allowed to play without the gamepad. Either Pro Controller or Wii Remote & Nunchuck.

So if you can without the 2nd screen, why not be able to play with ONLY the second screen. That was a deal breaker for me.

Nintendoland doesn't for obvious reason to show how you can do with 2 screens.

Edit:

Found an old list (from December) that shows the launch games that work on on OFF TV (gamepad only mode)

Assassin's Creed III
Darksiders 2
Mass Effect 3
Ninja Gaiden 3: Razor's Edge
Sonic & All-Stars Racing Transformed
Tekken Tag Tournament 2
Nano Assault Neo
Puddle

So those as well...

[Barone]

http://money.cnn.com/2013/05/07/tech...lem/index.html


Feels like Wii U owners will be allowed to enjoy the "Angry Birds experience" :
http://www.neoseeker.com/news/22884-...sion-software/
http://appleinsider.com/articles/13/...-wii-u-console
http://www.gamespot.com/news/nintend...e-apps-6407949

[JCU]

Uhh... Yeah the do...

Batman Arkham City
Call of Duty Black Ops 2
Injustice
Super Mario Bros. Wii U
Rayman Demo
Trine 2 Directors Cut

My entire statement should have given clarity instead of quoting one sentence. For having this ability used as a strength and feature of the system, it isn't available on all games. To me that is like a lie by omission. Out of the fourteen games you listed enabling this feature, how many do not? I can not use the off TV play on NintendoLand, Zombi U and unless I can't find it, LCU isn't giving me the option either.

Have you checked out the new advertising for the Wii U? Page 5 of the booklet says "Don't want to play on the big TV screen? Continue to play specially designed Wii U games using just the Wii U GamePad controller. Or multitask and play games on the GamePad while also watching TV."

Edit: The Off TV play is completely optional for developers and not mandatory.

[mrbigreddog]

Also, you don't seem to have (all of the) developers allowing you to play their game(s) on the pad alone and that was advertised as a big strength.

FIX!

My entire statement should have given clarity instead of quoting one sentence. For having this ability used as a strength and feature of the system, it isn't available on all games. To me that is like a lie by omission. Out of the fourteen games you listed enabling this feature, how many do not? I can not use the off TV play on NintendoLand, Zombi U and unless I can't find it, LCU isn't giving me the option either.

It wasn't out of context, you just wrote something different than what you were thinking...

What would you want to play on NintendoLand that is gamepad only? Most of the mini games are MADE to show off what you can do on 2 screens.

ZombiU doesn't, correct, just like I stated in my previous post. And how upset I was that it didn't.

Haven't played LCU, but after a little google search.............. nope. Sure can't! Guess I won't be buying that one!

Have you checked out the new advertising for the Wii U? Page 5 of the booklet says "Don't want to play on the big TV screen? Continue to play specially designed Wii U games using just the Wii U GamePad controller. Or multitask and play games on the GamePad while also watching TV."

Edit: The Off TV play is completely optional for developers and not mandatory.

That doesn't seem like Nintendo is stating that ALL games will have gamepad play.

[MrSega]

The system is designed to output to the gamepad when not playing on a television, so it more than likely adds some sort of additional tasks on the CPU that you wouldn't normally have on the other 2 consoles. It's not like the screen is blank while playing games, is it?



The 360's Power PC CPU operates at 3.2 GHz while utilizing a single core. When it uses multiple cores, the clock speed drops to 1.6 Ghz, compared to the PPC7's 1.25 Ghz with the Wii U. Supposedly, it is more efficient and has less latency because of how everything is built closer within the design. It's supposed to be at least on-par with the current hardware, but the current software hasn't shown anything to indicate that it is. The Cell is more powerful than the CPU in the 360, but very few programmers are able to take advantage of what it can do.

Except that the Wii U's main CPU is not a Power 7. Its much closer to a Power 5. And uses 3 cores, even less than PS3.

[JCU]

Pikmin Adventure, Metroid Blast, LOZ Battle Quest, etc, could be implemented for just the pad alone. For a few of them I'm not looking at the television in the least unless I want to see "LIVE" on the bottom of the screen. The off TV play has been pushed hard and it's as if they had to pick one gimmick over another. Do we allow the player to use the pad to play alone or do we use the pad as a scanning device or other implement of information during the game. Remember the uproar, if you will, during the release release when people found out this feature was not available on every game. People thought each game would afford them the luxury of playing the actual game on the pad while the family watches the tube.


001.jpg


Notice the top of the page. Specifically look at the words in yellow. In my opinion, as a fan of Nintendo, it is a bit misleading and can be construed as ambiguous and can lead to disappointment.

[FoxHound]

http://money.cnn.com/2013/05/07/tech...lem/index.html

That article was harsh..but accurate. The day WiiU drops to a 99 dollar console maybe sooner than I expect.

[mrbigreddog]

001.jpg

Notice the top of the page. Specifically look at the words in yellow. In my opinion, as a fan of Nintendo, it is a bit misleading and can be construed as ambiguous and can lead to disappointment.

We'll you can DEFINITELY play MARIO on the gamepad as the AD suggestion... But whatever. I get it! It sucks that not ALL games can do this. But not all games COULD do this... That's like saying, why can't ALL DS games just be played on the bottom screen. Well cause some games NEED both. And I understand that there aren't a lot of Wii U games that really do a lot on the second screen. But man, Call of Duty both ways is great! Single player, with a FULL map on the gamepad is SOO helpful. AND it will play on gamepad only, but I sure do miss that full size map! And 2 player, one on TV and one on Gamepad only playing ONLINE! Brilliant!

[kool kitty89]

The 360's Power PC CPU operates at 3.2 GHz while utilizing a single core. When it uses multiple cores, the clock speed drops to 1.6 Ghz, compared to the PPC7's 1.25 Ghz with the Wii U. Supposedly, it is more efficient and has less latency because of how everything is built closer within the design. It's supposed to be at least on-par with the current hardware, but the current software hasn't shown anything to indicate that it is. The Cell is more powerful than the CPU in the 360, but very few programmers are able to take advantage of what it can do.

No . . . that's not how it works from anything I've read (including the info on the Cell PPE itself -and some related SMT POWER CPUs). The "effective 1.6 GHz" is when using SMT, in which case the Xenon is a 6 (logical) core 1.6 GHz CPU. (same for the PS3's PPE when using dual tread operation) The clock speed never physically drops to 1.6 GHz either, but it's 1.6 effective due to resource sharing within each core for handling dual threads.

For 1, 2, or 3 threaded programs (assuming compilers properly schedule things), the Xenon will act as 3 3.2 GHz logical cores.

In that sense, comparing the WiiU CPU to the Xenon is a bit like comparing a 1.8 GHz Athlon x2 to a 3.6 GHz Pentium D. (roughly at least . . . and I think the IPC rates of Netburst vs K8 is closer than 750 vs PPE, hence the lesser clock speed proportions I gave) Well, that and Intel's Hyperthreading theoretically does better than acting as 2 logical cores at 1/2 the clock speed. (so instead of 2 3.6 GHz cores becoming 4 1.8 GHz ones, it's more like 4 2~2.2 GHz logical cores)

Except that the Wii U's main CPU is not a Power 7. Its much closer to a Power 5. And uses 3 cores, even less than PS3.

Power 3, actually. (it's a PowerPC 700 series or in Apple's terms Power PC "G3")

Also, PS3 has only 1 core . . . in terms of CPU cores (PPE), the rest are high powered floating point SIMD units. (great for physics and multimedia computation, not so good for general logic and AI handling stuff) 360's Xenon uses 3 slightly modified PPE cores.