the myth of the sega cd

[rift]

Honestly you can throw around sales numbers and tech specs, but at the end of the day there just aren't really *any* great games for the Sega CD, which is pretty unique among systems. I mean even the Jaguar has a handful of great classics you can't play anywhere else.

Just look at the reviews on this site - only two games scored a "10" and only 14 more scored a "9". But even then lets look at these:

Scored a 9
Spider-man
Earthworm Jim
Ecco
Eternal Champions
Flashback
Final Fight
Dark Wizard
Lunar
Lunar 2
Popful Mail
Panic
Snatcher
Sonic CD
Wirehead

So a full 6 out of the 14 are just retreads of genesis games with slight improvements (final fight being a sub-par arcade port). And honestly Eternal Champions is not a 9/10 game in any rational universe. Any competent/series fighting game fan knows the gameplay is a complete joke and completely broken.

Then you have the 4 working designs games, only 2 of which are exclusives.

Sonic CD perhaps the most overrated game of all time and if it didn't star Sonic no one would even like it.

Then Wirehead - really? You really think Wirehead is a 9/10 game in the realm of console video games?

And then the two "10" games are Pitfall and Robo Aleste. Pitfall being another genesis barely upgrade and another "wtf was the reviewer smoking" score, whereas Robo is just a decent generic shmup that wouldn't even be in the top 40 shooters if it was on tg-16/pc-e.

I'm fond of the sega cd because I enjoy bad/mediocre/weird games, but honestly that's all there is on this system. There is not a single game you could pull out for SCD and "WOW" any of your casual-gaming friends.

[zyrobs]

Keio Flying Squadron shits all over all of those. Whoever gave it a 6 is insane. It's one of the most solid shmups I've ever played.

[ifkz]

.....there just aren't really *any* great games for the Sega CD, which is pretty unique among systems.

....Then you have the 4 working designs games, only 2 of which are exclusives.

...whereas Robo is just a decent generic shmup that wouldn't even be in the top 40 shooters if it was on tg-16/pc-e.

...There is not a single game you could pull out for SCD and "WOW" any of your casual-gaming friends.

Okay, I'll go toe-to-toe with you and pick this apart.

First off, what is in your personal Sega CD library? I can offer some upgrades for you if you read a few posts up.

Now, what game from the library should I pull out to impress friends in five minutes or less? Well, for pure flash on a time-limit, I would recommend Soul Star. Soundtrack=excellent. Graphics=said to look 32-bit. Gameplay=easy to pickup. It's not my favorite sega cd game, but for your purposes, there you go.

With the Working Designs games, do you realize they started on the Sega CD and were ported to the 32-bit systems? Personally, I can put Lunar 2 up with Phantasy Star IV, Chrono Trigger, and Final Fantasy III (USA numbering). I own them all too. I'm sure a lot would also argue for Lunar 1, also.

I would like to see your top 40 PCE shooters list; I own a Turboduo & Turbografx-16 and a good part of the shooters in the US library. I think it compares well to Blazing Lazers which Compile also developed. What do you think is better than Robo Aleste? Dead Moon? Aero Blasters? Galaga 90? Ordyne? Side Arms? I think it stands well next to their best, like Air Zonk, R-type, Gate of Thunder. Yes, I own these games.

I also own arcade cabs and the CPS-1 Final Fight board. I say the Sega CD port is superior due to the CD audio, the new practice stages, and the new art stills that are in the game. It's great, and I don't notice that the lack of color diminishes the great port work at all.

Maybe I'll pick out your other games too later.

[bultje112]

Honestly you can throw around sales numbers and tech specs, but at the end of the day there just aren't really *any* great games for the Sega CD, which is pretty unique among systems. I mean even the Jaguar has a handful of great classics you can't play anywhere else.

Just look at the reviews on this site - only two games scored a "10" and only 14 more scored a "9". But even then lets look at these:

Scored a 9
Spider-man
Earthworm Jim
Ecco
Eternal Champions
Flashback
Final Fight
Dark Wizard
Lunar
Lunar 2
Popful Mail
Panic
Snatcher
Sonic CD
Wirehead

So a full 6 out of the 14 are just retreads of genesis games with slight improvements (final fight being a sub-par arcade port). And honestly Eternal Champions is not a 9/10 game in any rational universe. Any competent/series fighting game fan knows the gameplay is a complete joke and completely broken.

Then you have the 4 working designs games, only 2 of which are exclusives.

Sonic CD perhaps the most overrated game of all time and if it didn't star Sonic no one would even like it.

Then Wirehead - really? You really think Wirehead is a 9/10 game in the realm of console video games?

And then the two "10" games are Pitfall and Robo Aleste. Pitfall being another genesis barely upgrade and another "wtf was the reviewer smoking" score, whereas Robo is just a decent generic shmup that wouldn't even be in the top 40 shooters if it was on tg-16/pc-e.

I'm fond of the sega cd because I enjoy bad/mediocre/weird games, but honestly that's all there is on this system. There is not a single game you could pull out for SCD and "WOW" any of your casual-gaming friends.

in what universe is that bad> basically it says at least 10% of the sega cd library is 9/10 or more. that's a fucking great system and it is. also those games listed with a 9, I could add a number of games to that. that are argubaly better like thid world war and dune.

[Armoured Priest]

Okay, I'll go toe-to-toe with you and pick this apart.

First off, what is in your personal Sega CD library? I can offer some upgrades for you if you read a few posts up.

Now, what game from the library should I pull out to impress friends in five minutes or less? Well, for pure flash on a time-limit, I would recommend Soul Star. Soundtrack=excellent. Graphics=said to look 32-bit. Gameplay=easy to pickup. It's not my favorite sega cd game, but for your purposes, there you go.

With the Working Designs games, do you realize they started on the Sega CD and were ported to the 32-bit systems? Personally, I can put Lunar 2 up with Phantasy Star IV, Chrono Trigger, and Final Fantasy III (USA numbering). I own them all too. I'm sure a lot would also argue for Lunar 1, also.

I would like to see your top 40 PCE shooters list; I own a Turboduo & Turbografx-16 and a good part of the shooters in the US library. I think it compares well to Blazing Lazers which Compile also developed. What do you think is better than Robo Aleste? Dead Moon? Aero Blasters? Galaga 90? Ordyne? Side Arms? I think it stands well next to their best, like Air Zonk, R-type, Gate of Thunder. Yes, I own these games.

I also own arcade cabs and the CPS-1 Final Fight board. I say the Sega CD port is superior due to the CD audio, the new practice stages, and the new art stills that are in the game. It's great, and I don't notice that the lack of color diminishes the great port work at all.

Maybe I'll pick out your other games too later.

Not to be too nit-picky, but Working Designs actually started with the TG-16. Other then that @rift, at this point, what are you pulling out to "WOW" people in this day and age on any 16-bit system? This is a serious question, because I'm pretty sure its possible to point to a comparable game that at the time was only available on the Sega CD vs the TG-16/Duo, vanilla Genesis, or SNES for pretty much any genre.

[xelement5x]

Not to be too nit-picky, but Working Designs actually started with the TG-16. Other then that @rift, at this point, what are you pulling out to "WOW" people in this day and age on any 16-bit system? This is a serious question, because I'm pretty sure its possible to point to a comparable game that at the time was only available on the Sega CD vs the TG-16/Duo, vanilla Genesis, or SNES for pretty much any genre.

I believe what ifkz was trying to say is that Lunar 1 and 2 were original to the Sega CD at the time, and all the ports came later. Not that the first system WD published for was the Sega CD.

Not sure if rift is a troll or not, but a lot of people recognize that the Sega CD had quality titles. To say that there "just aren't really *any* great games for the Sega CD" seems to indicate that either you've never played any of the games or you came into this conversation with your mind made up already.

[Armoured Priest]

I believe what ifkz was trying to say is that Lunar 1 and 2 were original to the Sega CD at the time, and all the ports came later. Not that the first system WD published for was the Sega CD.

Not sure if rift is a troll or not, but a lot of people recognize that the Sega CD had quality titles. To say that there "just aren't really *any* great games for the Sega CD" seems to indicate that either you've never played any of the games or you came into this conversation with your mind made up already.

OK. I re-read that and you're right, xelement5x...so my apologies, ifkz (I will half-heartedly call you out for somewhat vague wording though Its the internet, you're not supposed to ever completely admit you were wrong about something).

[Chilly Willy]

So... let's see if this math flies:

great game (9 or 10) + improvements for CD = not a great game



You fail at math.

[rift]

I believe what ifkz was trying to say is that Lunar 1 and 2 were original to the Sega CD at the time, and all the ports came later. Not that the first system WD published for was the Sega CD.

Not sure if rift is a troll or not, but a lot of people recognize that the Sega CD had quality titles. To say that there "just aren't really *any* great games for the Sega CD" seems to indicate that either you've never played any of the games or you came into this conversation with your mind made up already.

I own a sega cd so I would honestly like to find some. The 9/10 games I listed above wouldn't even rate a mention on most any other system, least of all be the best they had to offer.

[ifkz]

OK. I re-read that and you're right, xelement5x...so my apologies, ifkz (I will half-heartedly call you out for somewhat vague wording though Its the internet, you're not supposed to ever completely admit you were wrong about something).

Ha, ha, no worries. I meant "they" as in Lunar 1 and Lunar II...not Working Designs. But, if it makes you feel better, I also own a few WD games for the Turbografx-16/Duo: Cosmic Fantasy 2, Cadash, and Parasol Stars. They (WD) certainly knew how to pick great games to localize; I wish they would have mended their relationship with Sega during the Dreamcast years, but that's another topic entirely

[Armoured Priest]

Ha, ha, no worries. I meant "they" as in Lunar 1 and Lunar II...not Working Designs. But, if it makes you feel better, I also own a few WD games for the Turbografx-16/Duo: Cosmic Fantasy 2, Cadash, and Parasol Stars. They (WD) certainly knew how to pick great games to localize; I wish they would have mended their relationship with Sega during the Dreamcast years, but that's another topic entirely

Indeed.

I also have Cadash, and Cosmic Fantasy 2 (as well as Exile and Exile 2). Yeah working designs games were an event back in the day.

[Drakon]

Oh, I agree that the Sega CD came about because of the PCE CD system; and yes it was also the first CD-ROM system. Not meant to piss on that legacy at all, I respect my TurboDuo other Turbografx hardware. But, I meant at least Sega went ahead and developed/released it instead of blowing smoke up...like the SNES CD. I wish Gate of Thunder was giving the same port treatment as Lords of Thunder, it's a masterpiece. I also respect the Sega CD for the first to actually create/expand the market beyond the PCE CD, which was largely ignored in the US.

I'm still really glad the snes didn't get a cd attachment. Snes chip tunes rule, genesis chip tunes would rule too if more games used better sound engines. The pc engine....bah that thing is perfect for cd audio.

Keio Flying Squadron shits all over all of those. Whoever gave it a 6 is insane. It's one of the most solid shmups I've ever played.

Agreed, and finally a genesis game that's not afraid to be cute.

It's too bad soul star starts you on a stage with barely anything graphically going on, those scrolling textured ground areas in the laters stages really make it look awesome. In fact the later stages are so awesome looking I think I'll try this game out and give it a serious playthrough. The music also fits perfectly.

So... let's see if this math flies:

great game (9 or 10) + improvements for CD = not a great game



You fail at math.

Hahahahaha repped.

[zetastrike]

I'm still really glad the snes didn't get a cd attachment. Snes chip tunes rule

Not for nothing, but there's no way the SNES wouldn't have benefitted sound wise from a CD attachment. I get that you like the SNES chiptunes, but CD games wouldn't have to have used redbook audio. Given the space on a CD, they could have used that for *high quality* samples instead. So you'd still get the chiptunes that you love, only with much better quality.

[Drakon]

Not for nothing, but there's no way the SNES wouldn't have benefitted sound wise from a CD attachment. I get that you like the SNES chiptunes, but CD games wouldn't have to have used redbook audio. Given the space on a CD, they could have used that for *high quality* samples instead. So you'd still get the chiptunes that you love, only with much better quality.

I'm fine with the limited quality. I'd be fine with nothing but genesis chiptunes if more games used better sound engines.

[bultje112]

Not to be too nit-picky, but Working Designs actually started with the TG-16. Other then that @rift, at this point, what are you pulling out to "WOW" people in this day and age on any 16-bit system? This is a serious question, because I'm pretty sure its possible to point to a comparable game that at the time was only available on the Sega CD vs the TG-16/Duo, vanilla Genesis, or SNES for pretty much any genre.

oh yeah? what working designs sega cd games were done on turbografx first then? :rolleyes: