the myth of the sega cd

[Drakon]

Bloodlines looks great to me I don't see how it could be better looking. Contra hard corps is the game that I think could have been done in terms of colours.

[Team Andromeda]

Bloodlines looks great to me I don't see how it could be better looking. Contra hard corps is the game that I think could have been done in terms of colours.

The Sprites were tiny , the colours horrible and the music very lame imo . I actually enjoyed Master Of Darkness on the MS more

[Kamahl]

Bloodlines looks great to me I don't see how it could be better looking. Contra hard corps is the game that I think could have been done in terms of colours.

Really poor color choices.

[Barone]

Really poor color choices.

Yeah, it's bloodawful.

[Drakon]

I think it's bloodiful!

Yeah, it's bloodawful.

[Black_Tiger]

Here is a screen from DKC with only a single enemy.






Each character on screen has a full 15 colors and the bananas use 5 colors. I didn't count the bubbles. The sprite layer in this scene totals 65 visible colors. A Genesis port would have to make Donkey and Diddy share the same palette for starters and any brown objects like barrels would have to be altered to match as well. The bananas and gold items would have to all use the same colors and maybe be capped at 3 shades, taking away 3 colors from the Donkey/Diddy palette so that all of the rest of the sprites in the game: animal companions, enemies, etc, could all share the same single palette. If they are all going to be full 15 color quality, then they would all have to use the exact same colors. You can't share colors between the two sprites palettes or either tile palette without completely sacrificing a unique color altogether. Each tile and sprite can only take all of its colors from a single palette.

The problem with the Genesis, is that it is so powerful in every other way. If it wasn't doing 16-bit quality graphics otherwise, the given displayable color palettes wouldn't be much of an issue. But as it is, it's more suited to 8-bit graphics. The SMS has 1 palette for sprites and 1 palette for tiles. Sure the Genesis has "double" that, but we're talking about doubling a single palette for either layer, for a generation that based sprites around having 15+ colors. It's not like 15 colors is overkill for 16-bit sprites either. Creating sprites through pixel art with the master palette as you please still requires scaling down the total number afterward to squeeze it into 15.

So sprites are at least as challenged for color as tile layers. A version of DKC could still look nice (if you consider DKC nice looking in the first place), just as Toy Story still looks great on Genesis. But the fact that the Genesis can display the same number of colors per sprite as SNES, PCE, etc means as much out of context as the SNES's sprite width limit.

[sheath]

If these are still being directed at my statement I didn't mean to oversimplify the sprite colors as is being implied. I wasn't thinking of all sprites, but your recent screenshot makes a very valid point. The SNES' level of sub palettes allows for more sprites/ with unique color palettes from one another than the Genesis could ever manage. I was only thinking of Donkey Kong himself, and maybe Diddy, looking roughly the same or identical and the backgrounds suffering for colors or needing to be redesigned for only one palette. Background tiles can pull from all four palettes can't they? I mean each tile can pull from one of the four palettes, but one tile cannot pull from more than one.

[ifkz]

The only "myth of the Sega CD" is that it was a failure. It certainly was not. Basically, it ruled the market from release until the 32-bit systems came out. If you were a 3rd party developer in the early days, the Sega CD was the place to go for the highest install base for your game. In hindsight, it took on all competitors and won easily in the US market. Turbografx CD = ignored. CDi = banished. 3do = too expensive. Jaguar CD = ever seen a working one? The Sega CD was simply the first CD-ROM based system for a lot of folks; that is undeniable.

It's also hard to argue that a system that went through three hardware iterations (model 1-tray, model 2-top loader, CDX) and a 3rd party specialty system (X-Eye) was anything near a failure.

Thankfully some youtube reviewers (like Classic Game Room) have uncovered a few of the unknown gems, like the system pushing Soul Star. And the Sega CDX ranks among the most elegantly designed, compact systems ever released IMHO.

Here's my top game list:

--GREAT--
Android Assault:The Revenge of Bari-Arm
Dungeon Explorer (actually the third in the series from legendary developer Westone)
Eternal Champions: Challenge From the Dark Side
Flink, The Misadventures of (the only stateside release of the game, extreme detail)
Heart of the Alien (the only stateside release of part 2)
Keio Flying Squadron (love the anime presentation, love the references to historic Japanese art/culture sprinkled throughout)
Popful Mail
Lords of Thunder
Lunar 2: Eternal Blue (sits among the top of the 16-bit RPGs of the era)
Panic! (pioneering, odd, wonderful)
Shining Force CD (wow, the soundtrack is the stuff of legend)
Silpheed (can't say enough about this one. The production values are sky-high. A time capsule of the top video game CGI of the time)
Snatcher
Sonic CD
Soul Star (arguably, the most technically impressive Sega CD game made)
Terminator, The (makes you forget the cart existed. Everything comes together almost perfectly)
Final Fight CD (the conversion that actually tops the original arcade game)
Road Rash (one of the best versions due to the licensed soundtrack that plays in races)
Robo Aleste
Tomcat Alley (I really appreciated the interactivity in this full screen FMV title)

--GOOD--
A/X-101 (terrible voice actors, but mindless enough fun. "Oh no, they killed Bob!")
Adventures of Batman & Robin, The (exclusive content from the TV show)
Adventures of Willy Beamish, The
After Burner III (a fairly faithful arcade translation of G-LOC and Strike Fighter. Much closer to the arcade than the G-LOC cart)
AH3 Thunderstrike
Amazing Spider-Man vs. The Kingpin, The
Batman Returns
BC Racers
Chuck Rock
Chuck Rock II: Son of Chuck
Dark Wizard
Demolition Man
Dune
Earthworm Jim Special Edition (the definite version)
Ecco the Dolphin
Ecco: The Tides of Time
Fahrenheit
Flashback: The Quest for Identity (the cart cinemas are better, but the FMV here shows where they were going with the sequel: Fade to Black)
Jaguar XJ220 (love the track editor feature, lots of re-playability, and it scales well. Graphics are a bit drab though)
Jurassic Park
Lethal Enforcers
Lethal Enforcers II: Gunfighters
Lunar: The Silver Star
Masked Rider, The: Kamen Rider Zo
Mortal Kombat (love the restored arcade soundtrack)
NBA Jam
Mansion of Hidden Souls, The (first person survival horror that laid the groundwork for RE)
Mickey Mania: Timeless Adventures of Mickey Mouse
Midnight Raiders
Night Trap
Mary Shelley's Frankenstein/Bram Stoker's Dracula
Puggsy
RDF Global Conflict
Rise of the Dragon
Road Avenger
Samurai Shodown (very close to the original arcade game, plays very well, only lacks Earthquake. A conversion done right)
Secret of Monkey Island
Sega Classics 4-in-1
Sega Classics 5-in-1
Sol-Feace
Space Ace
Space Adventure, The (wow, I'll have to keep this from the kids)
Star Wars: Rebel Assault
Starblade (love the technical tricks Namco pulled off. Can't push enough polygons? Do it with wireframe models!)
Surgical Strike (kind of a sequel to Tomcat Alley)
Third World War
Time Gal
Vay
Wild Woody
Wonder Dog
Wolfchild (heck, the yellow box looks nice on the shelf)

[cleeg]

I always remember my sister saying "Everything will be on CDs in the future" and she was right. They're not anymore of course. But when the Mega CD did games well, it did them very well. I think that games like Soul Star were excellent, though unfortunately the SNES was managing similar without a CD, so that made the Mega CD quite redundant I suppose. The music was of course way better than anything else. It's a pity that Sega didn't make more games like Batman's driving sections, some ace racing / flying games could've been made.

[ifkz]

...though unfortunately the SNES was managing similar without a CD...

That's another thing I forgot. At least Sega had the pioneering spirit to release the system, the SNES CD remained nothing but vaporware and a marketplace distraction (though the Playstation did come from their failed talks with Sony).

EDIT:
Maybe that's what led to the senate hearings: Nintendo couldn't compete with the CD format, so they had to come up with some way to devalue the CD marketplace leader before they were plowed into the dirt? Probably not a good theory, but why not throw it out there.

[sheath]

At one time Pettus' article asserted, without citations as usual, that Sega CD sales plummeted directly after the televised senate witch hunt. I've only seen one other theory about that being caused by SNES Street Fighter 2 Turbo primarily. I haven't been able to confirm that Sega CD sales dropped after Fall 1993, but I have seen Sega's revenues dropped dramatically in 1993 and early 1994 compared to their peak in 1992.

[cleeg]

At least Sega had the pioneering spirit to release the system.

Totally, it's a cool piece of kit, and a piece of gaming history. It's a totally unique thing even today, I can't imagine any equivalent add ons being made for an X Box or similar (unless you count Kinetic, though to me that's just a specialised controller).

It's just a shame that more visually appealing games weren't being made, and by appealing I mean the use of special effects like transparencies and other gimmicks with which Nintendo was winning fans. Even without them, Sega could and should have made really high quality stuff like Mario Kart for instance. It's a bit like that ad where Sonic 2 is on a TV strapped to a drag racer and Mario Kart attached to a milk float. It's not a fair comparison.

But cool stuff like Soul Star looked way smoother and better in general. Sega should've made more of a deal comparing CD games of that ilk to Nintendo's stuff and maybe got more life out of the syatem.

Imagine how good a 3D Ecco game on a 32X CD would've been if done right!? Or even just sections of it in 3D.

[Drakon]

That's another thing I forgot. At least Sega had the pioneering spirit to release the system, the SNES CD remained nothing but vaporware and a marketplace distraction (though the Playstation did come from their failed talks with Sony).

EDIT:
Maybe that's what led to the senate hearings: Nintendo couldn't compete with the CD format, so they had to come up with some way to devalue the CD marketplace leader before they were plowed into the dirt? Probably not a good theory, but why not throw it out there.

Yeah, what pioneers those sega guys, the pc engine cd only predates the sega cd by 3 years and is the exact same thing but obviously sega pioneered this technology.

[ifkz]

Yeah, what pioneers those sega guys, the pc engine cd only predates the sega cd by 3 years and is the exact same thing but obviously sega pioneered this technology.

Oh, I agree that the Sega CD came about because of the PCE CD system; and yes it was also the first CD-ROM system. Not meant to piss on that legacy at all, I respect my TurboDuo other Turbografx hardware. But, I meant at least Sega went ahead and developed/released it instead of blowing smoke up...like the SNES CD. I wish Gate of Thunder was giving the same port treatment as Lords of Thunder, it's a masterpiece. I also respect the Sega CD for the first to actually create/expand the market beyond the PCE CD, which was largely ignored in the US.

[Hidden_Darkness]

I enjoyed the sega cd a lot when it was on the market, there were quite a few hidden gems on the system for people willing to dig deeper in the sega cd library.