Who's into the Sega Master System?

[The Coop]

I agree.

If SEGA had been a bit more open minded in the 80s, not only would SMS/Mark III had very solid 3rd party support and would have sold strongly, it would have also had a modest market penetration.

The problem wasn't really Sega not being open minded, it was Nintendo's third-party contract policies. Signing on to make NES games back then meant not making games for "competing" systems, which the Master System was. As such, companies like the ones I mentioned couldn't make games for the SMS, because it was literally in their contracts with Nintendo.

[MrSega]

The problem wasn't really Sega not being open minded, it was Nintendo's third-party contract policies. Signing on to make NES games back then meant not making games for "competing" systems, which the Master System was. As such, companies like the ones I mentioned couldn't make games for the SMS, because it was literally in their contracts with Nintendo.

I'm referring to in Japan. SOJ had resources and ways to activity seek 3rd party support as early as 1984. But didn't. Nintendo's strict contracts mostly only referred to the Western market. I'm fully aware of how Nintendo locked major publishers under exclusive contract, but I thought it was only enforced in America.

I figured during the mid 80s, that Mark III had strong opportunity for active software support. But SOJ themselves were pretty close minded and kept to themselves regarding domestic IPs. Of course SEGA wanted SMS support and couldn't get any because of Nintendo's draconian licensing policies.

While there was a loophole that SEGA used regarding Nintendo's strict guidelines in re-coding most of the NES 3rd party releases themselves, its unfortunate that there weren't enough resources to obtain every other big title for re-coding and SEGA publishing on SMS.

[zetastrike]

The problem wasn't really Sega not being open minded, it was Nintendo's third-party contract policies. Signing on to make NES games back then meant not making games for "competing" systems, which the Master System was. As such, companies like the ones I mentioned couldn't make games for the SMS, because it was literally in their contracts with Nintendo.

Is that what allowed Konami to make games for the MSX, because it was a computer, not a console? What allowed companies to jump ship when the PCE was released?

[NeoZeedeater]

Eh didn't care for the master system. NES was better. Better graphics and music.

Master System games often tried too hard to replicate the arcade graphics to the point that it greatly hindered gameplay and negated any hardware advantages it had. Instead of doing like Nintendo developers and crafting a game that worked well with the hardware w/ the qualities and spirit of the original intact.

Ex: NES Double Dragon and TMNT Arcade. Lacking from the arcade original but still looked, played, and sounded great for the hardware. Ports that are nearly just as memorable as the arcade original.

I could say the exact same thing for SMS Shinobi, R-Type, Fantasy Zone, Rastan, Choplifter, etc. They all work well around the hardware and don't try and do more than it can handle. The gameplay quality is there. And some of the differences are pretty cool, e.g. Shinobi's reworked health and weapon system, R-Type's extra stage and Compile music, Rastan's wall jump, Choplifter's slightly increased speed.

Altered Beast and Golden Axe ports for SMS. In trying to replicate the arcade so much, you're just left with a slow, choppy mess, that was still lacking graphically from the arcade AND played like shit to boot. Forgettable for sure.

These are shitty ports but I think that has more to do with Sega assigning better people to the Genesis versions than because they attempt to replicate the arcade games. I don't think these are really representative of most arcade ports on the system.

[Saturn Fan]

Then theres Double Dragon for the SMS. Why would anyone say its better than the NES version? Because it has co-op play?

It still plays like C-R-A-P!

[NeoZeedeater]

I wouldn't say it's crap but I agree the NES version played better. I was really into beat 'em ups back then so I bought it for NES, SMS, and C64. I only regret the latter.

[Black_Tiger]

Eh didn't care for the master system. NES was better. Better graphics and music.

Master System games often tried too hard to replicate the arcade graphics to the point that it greatly hindered gameplay and negated any hardware advantages it had. Instead of doing like Nintendo developers and crafting a game that worked well with the hardware w/ the qualities and spirit of the original intact.

Ex: NES Double Dragon and TMNT Arcade. Lacking from the arcade original but still looked, played, and sounded great for the hardware. Ports that are nearly just as memorable as the arcade original.

Altered Beast and Golden Axe ports for SMS. In trying to replicate the arcade so much, you're just left with a slow, choppy mess, that was still lacking graphically from the arcade AND played like shit to boot. Forgettable for sure.

The Master System certainly wasn't without its good qualities but there's a reason NES did much better.

It sounds like your knowledge of the SMS is that you looked at a handful of video clips and maybe spent a minute with a few roms in an emulator. Your ignorance of history is also clouding your judgement. There's a reason that the SMS did better than the NES in regions where Nintendo's crooked business practices were not successful.

[FuturePrimitive]

It sounds like your knowledge of the SMS is that you looked at a handful of video clips and maybe spent a minute with a few roms in an emulator. Your ignorance of history is also clouding your judgement. There's a reason that the SMS did better than the NES in regions where Nintendo's crooked business practices were not successful.

Excellent response!

I don't even own a Sega Master System or a Power Base Converter and I know that the system compared to the NES is above and beyond more powerful, versatile, colorful, and capable. This isn't opinion, this is a correct analysis. Sega's 3rd party support was sabotaged by Nintendo's dirty monopoly. Just like Atari and their competitors when they were at their best. Atari's responsible for attacking the Colecovision, Intellivision, arcade competitors, the GCE Vectrex, Sega, etc.

[MrSega]

Then theres Double Dragon for the SMS. Why would anyone say its better than the NES version? Because it has co-op play?

It still plays like C-R-A-P!

Compared to the SHIT Arcade sequel, Double Dragon for SMS is Halo.

[Bottino]

It sounds like your knowledge of the SMS is that you looked at a handful of video clips and maybe spent a minute with a few roms in an emulator. Your ignorance of history is also clouding your judgement. There's a reason that the SMS did better than the NES in regions where Nintendo's crooked business practices were not successful.

Rep'd.
Also i think the NES is kinda overrated , due to the fact that it had almost no fair competition(and also by the business practices stated before) in the time it was around.
It would be like(in some degree) if a create a soccer team with a massive budget and with the best players in the world competing with the teams from my state. I reconize its historical relevance and that many people grew up playing it, something that many times blind people and reviewers , making the SNES a "success" even before it were released. The Master was a big hit in Brasil and i believe it did very well in Australia and Europe.
If you just analyze sales to state that "x" is better than "y" then Justin Bieber would be better than this guy:

[MrSega]

Rep'd.
Also i think the NES is kinda overrated , due to the fact that it had almost no fair competition(and also by the business practices stated before) in the time it was around.
It would be like(in some degree) if a create a soccer team with a massive budget and with the best players in the world competing with the teams from my state. I reconize its historical relevance and that many people grew up playing it, something that many times blind people and reviewers , making the SNES a "success" even before it were released. The Master was a big hit in Brasil and i believe it did very well in Australia and Europe.
If you just analyze sales to state that "x" is better than "y" then Justin Bieber would be better than this guy:

I consider the SMS/Mark III to be superior powerwise and Arcade port wise to the NES/Famicom. Higher sprite count,better graphics and 3X more color(I think it was capable of up to 64, NES could only do 16) It was much more dignified and better designed then NES.

Nintendo used dictator tactics to gain the market and library upper hand.

[Black_Tiger]

I consider the SMS/Mark III to be superior powerwise and Arcade port wise to the NES/Famicom. Higher sprite count,better graphics and 3X more color(I think it was capable of up to 64, NES could only do 16) It was much more dignified and better designed then NES.

Nintendo used dictator tactics to gain the market and library upper hand.

Although the SMS is capable of much better graphics and the visuals of some games look as good as or better than many 16-bit console games, your color count guesses are pretty far off.

Just as the Genesis' color bottleneck isn't the total number of colors possible at once, the NES has even more unique color restrictions. I don't know how accurate various breakdowns on the net are, but the biggest issue for the NES is that it doesn't use RGB color. Then it also has pretty strict colors-per-tile/sprite limits. The SMS has half the palettes as the Genesis does and a master palette of 64 colors in RGB. So SMS graphics can look like regular arcade/console graphics, but the NES always looks odd in comparison.

[Saturn Fan]

It sounds like your knowledge of the SMS is that you looked at a handful of video clips and maybe spent a minute with a few roms in an emulator. Your ignorance of history is also clouding your judgement. There's a reason that the SMS did better than the NES in regions where Nintendo's

I've played a decent amount of SMS games and few of them impressed me, compared to how many GEMs the NES had.

There's a reason that the SMS did'nt do better than the NES in most areas where Sega's poor business practices were not successful....

[Guntz]

If that's all you haved played, that's less than a quarter of the NA releases. I don't know if it would be fair to use the word "most" in that context.

Well I didn't play any sports games, that cuts down the possible game selection by 2/3rds.

That being said, while there are some games that are typically considered disappointing in there (like Aztec Adventure, Galaxy Force, Pro Wrestling, and Lost Stars), there are also highly praised ones (like Penguin Land and Kenseiden) so I don't know how much you would like the rest of the library.

Yeah I know, it's not fair to judge a console by its bad games, but was trying out non-imports first.

If you don't really like hard games, that narrows down 1980s gaming a lot, especially the shooter genre. The SMS has a lot of good ones in that area. R-Type/Kenseiden-level difficulty was pretty much the norm back then for console games (Western computer games tended to be even more difficult).

Some difficult games I can play... The kind that are challenging but still fun. I guess that depends on taste more than anything. I could give you a comparison. Take a Metal Slug, usually tough but very fun and can be beaten with some practice and skill. That's a good hard game. Art of Fighting 2 is the opposite. There's nothing fun about constantly losing to the first opponent you fight. I can't stand that game. Looks great but is total ass to play alone. A lot of SMS games felt like that to me, not fun enough to overcome the difficulty. Sega really lacked that charm that made so many of their Genesis games so fun.

I think SMS gun games tend to hold up better than anything else in that genre from the classic eras but if you don't like those kind of games, I guess that's not going to be a plus.

Well if I ever decide I like gun games, I'll look into SMS, even if because of the sheer variety. Laser Ghost looks like a fun game. I just find lightguns to be gimmicky and not as fun as regular controller games.

It might not be the system for you but I would recommend checking out some of the not-as-difficult '90s releases on emulator like the Mickey, Asterix and Sonic games, Alex Kidd in Shinobi World (it's more like Shinobi than Alex Kidd), Bubble Bobble, Ninja Gaiden, etc.. That's always the quickest (and cheapest way) to see if you want to invest money into old systems.

Ok I'll do that. As I said before, if I find enough games I truly like on SMS, I'll probably buy a Everdrive and save money on shipping tons of games from other countries. I never liked the SMS packaging anyways, no matter where it always looks bad. Besides, I only have so much storage space for games.

Are any of you familiar with loose SMS collecting? That was another idea I considered. SMS carts are small so they wouldn't cost much to ship, but aren't they usually found with their boxes?

Anyway, I think it's cool that you like some games on the system. Most gamers your age probably wouldn't even touch it. And I think there's a lot the SMS has to offer for Genesis/Mega Drive fans given the overlap of development and franchises from Sega back when they were a top tier game maker.

It's not that I don't like SMS, it's just I have too many games and I've been trying to consolidate my belongings down to what I actually enjoy. I felt I wouldn't miss out much on SMS, but maybe I was wrong... Problem is though, if I were to keep SMS, I'd have to cut out some other console.

For the record, I love the NES, one of my favorite systems. Lots of classics to be had on it. One of my favorites is EarthBound, an unreleased game.

[FuturePrimitive]

I've played a decent amount of SMS games and few of them impressed me, compared to how many GEMs the NES had.

There's a reason that the SMS did'nt do better than the NES in most areas where Sega's poor business practices were not successful....

Looks like the rational rebuttals that were given to you zoomed right over your head.