So I gave Mario 64 another try over the weekend...

[Soulis]

Sure he says that now, but I bet you any money if the N64 was a CD based system Mario 64 would have had voice acting. You can tell they wanted voice acting in the game, as there's parts that are narrated with character voices, and Mario actually does say things. He doesn't just grunt like Link. Not to mention he had no problem with putting full voice acting into Starfox 64.

I bet you would lose that bet. Also Starfox 64 had great voice acting. Not to mention that voice acting in Starfox was an integral part of the experience. The original Starfox game even tried to emulate it.

Honestly Samus's voice acting in Other:M didn't bother me.

It bothered me.

As for Mario 64's broken camera, this picture is all you need to prove it:


So what direction should I push to go down that ramp? Is there even a ramp there? It could be a bottomless pit for all I know.

Easily fixed with the press of a button. In fact these Bowser stages have the least camera problems as you can easily give them a "2D platform" perspective. Also, i'd rather have a complex free roaming world to explore and having to adjust any camera problems than a restrictive world with a perfect camera.

[TrekkiesUnite118]

If I press the right C button I'll get a mirror of the same camera angle. If I press the Left C button I can see the ramp but then I can't see that far in front of me. And it still doesn't help with the issue of "Which direction should I push to go down the ramp?".

And please explain how some beeps and boops emulates voice acting in the original Starfox? It's not like they couldn't have done actual voice acting on the SNES. And honestly I'd say Mario 64 has enough voice acting in it as it is to consider it to be pretty well voiced. And I honestly find Mario's voice to be far more annoying than any of Sonic's voices.

And Mario 64's worlds aren't these vast complex worlds. They are just small stupid sandboxes. They're no more open or vast than the worlds in NiGHTS.

[Soulis]

And please explain how some beeps and boops emulates voice acting in the original Starfox? It's not like they couldn't have done actual voice acting on the SNES. And honestly I'd say Mario 64 has enough voice acting in it as it is to consider it to be pretty well voiced. And I honestly find Mario's voice to be far more annoying than any of Sonic's voices.

Now you are just talking nonsense.

Starfox had tons of "spoken" dialogue through the radios, the radios were an important part of the atmosphere for a game like that and they needed some sound along with the text. But if you think that they could fit all that with real spoken dialogue in a cart, in 1993, you are talking nonsense.

If you think Mario 64 is a "pretty well voiced" game, you are talking nonsense.

If you think the few lines Mario says on rare instances and a couple of "hoos" and "haas" he makes are more annoying than Sonic's extensive conversations with the voice of an obnoxious teenager, then you are talking nonsense.

Please stop it.

[Kamahl]

I had Crash on the DS; a pretty nifty platformer but as you wrote it's not exactly 3D

Isn't crash on the DS fully 2D (but with 3D models)? The playstation ones aren't like that, you have 3D movement but on a rail that keeps changing. They have some 2D parts too, but it's not the entire game.

[Soulis]

And Mario 64's worlds aren't these vast complex worlds. They are just small stupid sandboxes. They're no more open or vast than the worlds in NiGHTS.

Open, vast and having something in it to explore.

[TrekkiesUnite118]

Now you are just talking nonsense.

Starfox had tons of "spoken" dialogue through the radios, the radios were an important part of the atmosphere for a game like that and they needed some sound along with the text. But if you think that they could fit all that with real spoken dialogue in a cart, in 1993, you are talking nonsense.

If you think Mario 64 is a "pretty well voiced" game, you are talking nonsense.

If you think the few lines Mario says on rare instances and a couple of "hoos" and "haas" he makes are more annoying than Sonic's extensive conversations with the voice of an obnoxious teenager, then you are talking nonsense.

Please stop it.

It's not nonsense. Starfox on the SNES has a lot less dialogue than the 64 version. If Nintendo really wanted to I bet they could have put voice acting on the cartridge. Starfox on the SNES is only an 8 Meg cart. That's smaller than a lot of games from that time period. If they really wanted to they could have put voice acting in it.

Mario 64 does have a decent amount of voice acting when you think about it. You have Peach's narration in the beginning, and then Mario's wonderfully awful lines such as "So long gay Bowser!", and then Peach's lines at the end of the game. I find Mario's voice clips to be far more annoying in comparison to what Sonic says in any of the cutscenes in Sonic Adventure.

Just listen to the difference:




By comparison the Sonic Adventure clip really doesn't sound annoying at all. It honestly sounds pretty normal. The Mario clips on the other hand are pretty damn annoying.

Open, vast and having something in it to explore.

The worlds in Nights have something to explore as well. And Mario's worlds aren't open or vast. They are pretty small and confined.

[Soulis]

Ok, no need for me to continue a conversation about voice acting with someone who believes Sonic's voice acting isn't annoying and even goes as far as to call it "normal". This is way over my head but i will just assume its another of those "different opinion" things and move on.

[TrekkiesUnite118]

Please explain why you feel Sonic's voice is annoying. Please explain why you feel Mario running around like a fat personification of Italian stereotypes isn't annoying.

[goldenband]

By comparison the Sonic Adventure clip really doesn't sound annoying at all. It honestly sounds pretty normal. The Mario clips on the other hand are pretty damn annoying.

^Both of those make me want to poke my eardrums out, actually. The Mario one is inevitably more annoying in the short term because you're pounding down every sound in the game consecutively, but the Sonic one makes me feel like my personal space is being invaded by a furry who smells like stale Cheetos.

[Obviously]

Mario 64 is always an odd topic for me. I appreciate it as an innovative title but even in its day I didn't really enjoy it as a game. Honestly that whole early 3D console period was an awkward time in gaming for me. The technology and 3D game design knowledge just wasn't quite there yet for me. I know I've said it before but it helps to explain my opinion on Mario 64.

[Soulis]

I already explained why Sonic's voice acting is annoying.

I didn't say Mario's voice isn't annoying but (compared to Sonic's) at least its kept to a few lines that don't last more than 2 seconds, its minimal and its also a bit comedic/doesn't take itself seriously.

[TrekkiesUnite118]

You hear Marios annoying voice almost constantly throughout the entire game. I'd rather put up with Sonic's voice in Adventure for a few cutscenes than hear Marios constant babble.

And no, you haven't really explained why you find Sonic's voice annoying. You've only said it's the voice of an obnoxious teenager. Well here's a newsflash for you. Sonic by design is an obnoxious teenager. And in all honesty, his voice in Sonic Adventure isn't obnoxious really. Now his voice in the 90's cartoons, that was obnoxious.

[Metalwario64]

"Which direction should I push to go down the ramp?".

That's a trick question, because you went up that ramp to get to the end of the level.

Mario's wonderfully awful lines such as "So long gay Bowser!"

I can't tell if you really think that's what he's saying, or if you're just taking another quip at the voice acting.

[TrekkiesUnite118]

Well what is he actually saying? After all these years I still can't quite tell what he's actually saying in that line.

And it doesn't matter if that is the end of the level. It still illustrates whats wrong with the camera system. What if I missed a red coin or something and decided to turn around and go back? After all since Mario 64 is supposed to be about exploration as people love to claim it shouldn't matter what direction I go through the level. There are plenty of other areas in the game were I've had similar problems with the camera.

[sheath]

Mario 64 has broken camera. To prove it, lets compare it with a couple First Person games (sigh) and a few others that don't even have big free roaming worlds or freedom of movement, like Bug. Great job, i'm convinced.

Also, Mario never had full voice acting even when his games got into DVDs. Same with Link. See, Miyamoto is against voice acting in these games and i agree with him because voice acting can easily ruin any classic character if its not good. Sonic and Samus (OtherM) are 2 fine examples.

Sorry man but I have to disagree. Mario 64's camera is horrible, as are most 3D platformers that mimic it. The game is incredibly slow and the camera still fails to help the player stay on tracks that the level design loves to throw at him or her.