Genre by Genre: Sega Saturn and Sony Playstation worldwide libraries comparison

[sheath]

I could never find a way to get ePSXe to display the native resolution much less take screenshots at that, PSX emulator has always generated precise results for me. Either way, we know that SFA is in the 384 wide mode even if it is cropped by 20pixels.

[Barone]

Actually it looks like the Street Fighter shots are cut off on the right side.

"You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to TrekkiesUnite118 again."
Gotta give you some extra respect in my book, hehe. Seriously, great contribution.

You're deadly right about that. I checked ePSXe and it does the same nasty job... But actually there's a special game fix option in Pete's video plugins which actually allows you to see the missing pixels.

I also think you're right about the PS1 Capcom-developed ports using the same resolution of the arcade; just have a look at 1:04 of this real hardware gameplay of Street Fighter Zero 3. Looks like our beloved 24 pixels missing in the emulators shots are actually there, which would gave us 384x224.



EDIT: Added note about special fix for Capcom 2D fighters.

[TrekkiesUnite118]

So that is one Pro for the PS1 ports over the Saturn ports I guess. The PS1 ports run in a higher horizontal resolution preserving the look of the Arcade version. And as a result I think we can dismiss the idea of PS1 ports using smaller sprites, they just look smaller due to the resolution difference. Though the Saturn ports definitely have the upper hand as far as animation, gameplay, loading, etc. are concerned.

I really do wonder at times why Sega didn't allow for more Horizontal resolutions like 256 wide and 384 wide if the PS1 did it. While the issue with Street Fighter Alpha wasn't that major of an issue, it was a problem for games like Megaman X3 and Symphony of the Night.

[Barone]

I updated my previous post. Using a special game fix option you can get the 384 pixels on ePSXe emulator.

So that is one Pro for the PS1 ports over the Saturn ports I guess. The PS1 ports run in a higher horizontal resolution preserving the look of the Arcade version. And as a result I think we can dismiss the idea of PS1 ports using smaller sprites, they just look smaller due to the resolution difference. Though the Saturn ports definitely have the upper hand as far as animation, gameplay, loading, etc. are concerned.

Saturn ports give you stuff like animated characters in select screens and the proper Vega's background in SFZ3. Talk about arcade at home experience...

I really do wonder at times why Sega didn't allow for more Horizontal resolutions like 256 wide and 384 wide if the PS1 did it. While the issue with Street Fighter Alpha wasn't that major of an issue, it was a problem for games like Megaman X3 and Symphony of the Night.

The PS1 is a more flexible machine all around, that's how I see it. Feels like Sony did cared about several details like resolution modes and proper sound compression capabilities while designing it; I always have the feeling that they planned very well most of the things related to the PS1, being very careful to make things as easy as possible for the developers (something that always help you to grab more 3rd party support). The rushed launch on the Saturn side of things may explain something though...

As a side note, FM Towns had a limitation with its lower resolution being 352x232 IIRC which resulted in several arcade ports having to scroll in order to maintain proper aspect ratio.

[Barone]

And as a result I think we can dismiss the idea of PS1 ports using smaller sprites, they just look smaller due to the resolution difference.

Yep!

Native resolution shots comparison:

[TrekkiesUnite118]

Another thing I never understood is why the Saturn port doesn't have the gradient in the health bars.

[sheath]

Interesting, so the 356 wide Saturn image is simply cropped, not squished. Are we certain that the actual PS1 doesn't crop the image the way PSX emulator did? Both systems have much wider "fields" than the actual resolution of the display in any given frame. The PSX doc I linked said its actual display is 1024 pixels wide by 512 tall.

The Frame Buffer

The frame buffer is the memory which stores all graphic data which the GPU can access and manipulate, while drawing and displaying an image . The memory is under the GPU and cannot be accessed by the CPU directly. It is operated solely by the GPU. The frame buffer has a size of 1 MB and is treated as a space of 1024 pixels wide and 512 pixels high. Each "pixel" has the size of one word (16 bit). It is not treated linearly like usual memory, but is accessed through coordinates, with an upper left corner of (0,0) and a lower right corner of (1023,511).
When data is displayed from the frame buffer, a rectangular area is read from the specified coordinate within this memory. The size of this area can be chosen from several hardware defined types. Note that these hardware sizes are only valid when the X and Y stop/start registers are at their default values. This display area can be displayed in two color formats, being 15bit direct and 24bit direct. The data format of one pixel is as follows.

Conversely I can't find similar specs in MacDonald's VDP2 doc, but the VDP 1 doc says that the frame buffer is 512x256, and we know that the VDP1 and VDP2 have 256KB Frame Buffers each for a total of 512KB of Frame Buffer, whereas the PS1 doc says it has a 1MB frame buffer.

Even though the framebuffer is 512x256 in it's default configuration, the
VDP1 limits the area you can erase, regardless of the rectangle size:

- For a 224 or 240 line display, you can clear 224 or 240 lines.

- For a 320 or 352 pixel display, you can clear 400 or 428 pixels.
Note that 428 is not a multiple of eight, only the first four pixels
of the last eight pixel group have the erase/write data written to them.

For example, a 352x240 display would have a 428x240 pixel area erased if
EWLR = $0000 and EWRR = $FFFF (which logically corresponds to an erase
area from 0,0 to 1023,511).

It also seems that when the erase rectangle is bigger than the clipping
rectangle the VDP1 defines, it doesn't do any extra work and so the
erase/write sequence takes the same amount of time.

At any rate, I think Barone's pics show that cropping can and does occur in both versions, both obviously have the entire level loaded into RAM at the same time, it's just a matter of how much of that cropping shows up on a real screen.

-edit-

It looks like the Saturn version is indeed cropped on a regular set the same as Barone's pics (from SSF?).

@ 2:00


It looks like the Dreamcast version of SFA3 uses the same cropped/lower horizontal resolution.

[Barone]

Another thing I never understood is why the Saturn port doesn't have the gradient in the health bars.

Laziness.
In 1999 the Saturn was pretty much dead, so I think Capcom just quickly prepared a version based on what they already had under development for the DC (however, I don't know if I'm saying bullocks; IDK if the SH4 instruction set is similar to the SH2's in some ways or if Capcom had some sort of middle-ware tools for both platforms).

Are we certain that the actual PS1 doesn't crop the image the way PSX emulator did?

Yes. The video I had posted previously showed that the PS1 doesn't crop the image in real hardware (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yJFEFa3fLfQ) (The uploader only uses real hardware; the same for the one who uploaded the DC video you posted - I subscribed both channels some months ago).
Also the crop used by Capcom for the Saturn port is both sides, unlike the PS1 emualtors errors which "eat" only the right portion of the screen.

The DC version seems to have been developed using the same resources of the Saturn one, they were probably developed together to reduce costs and to take advantage of the big user base the Saturn had in Japan, even in 1999 - Capcom probably went for some quick and easy money maker.

[sheath]

Laziness.
In 1999 the Saturn was pretty much dead, so I think Capcom just quickly prepared a version based on what they already had under development for the DC (however, I don't know if I'm saying bullocks; IDK if the SH4 instruction set is similar to the SH2's in some ways or if Capcom had some sort of middle-ware tools for both platforms).

Sounds like Capcom to me. The SH4 was supposed to be fully backward compatible with the SH2 as well, but I doubt the VDP1+2 had anything in common with the PVR2DC, not to mention memory bus differences.

Yes. The video I had posted previously showed that the PS1 doesn't crop the image in real hardware (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yJFEFa3fLfQ) (The uploader only uses real hardware; the same for the one who uploaded the DC video you posted - I subscribed both channels some months ago).
Also the crop used by Capcom for the Saturn port is both sides, unlike the PS1 emualtors errors which "eat" only the right portion of the screen.

The DC version seems to have been developed using the same resources of the Saturn one, they were probably developed together to reduce costs and to take advantage of the big user base the Saturn had in Japan, even in 1999 - Capcom probably went for some quick and easy money maker.

Gah, I noticed that and I guess I forgot to edit my post correctly. I meant to say that the Saturn and Dreamcast game has the lower resolution and the PS1 version apparently does run at 384 wide.

[Barone]

And maybe I'll bring back Primal Rage on the PS1, as it has all the arcade screens and intro the Saturn version misses.

Some corrections and interesting info regarding the "almighty" Primal Rage ports.
It took me some good research and testing to figure out the following things:
- Both 3DO and Saturn versions DO HAVE the arcade intro and VS screens but you need to TURN OFF an option called "Animations" in the options menu to be able to have them in the game. The best part is that you'll get rid of the crappy CG intro (using the arcade one instead) and the lame CG pre-match videos (which also reduces the loading times a bit). It's a great plus for those versions IMO and you won't find this info on the Internet any time soon.
*Jaguar CD info is based only in real hardware gameplay videos and forums discussions, since I don't have a Jaguar and much less a Jaguar CD unit.
*This comparison takes in account US/EU versions of the games. Saturn and PS1 got much later JP releases and I'm still trying to find at least a proper dump of those versions to be able to compare them in real hardware using CD-Rs, but I highly doubt they received any improvement over the western releases.
- Saturn/3DO/Jaguar CD versions have better AI when compared to the PS1's
- In terms of loading times: Saturn < 3DO == Jaguar CD <<< PS1 (it loads during the arcade intro, WTF???!!!)
- Animation quality: Saturn (a bit more animation in some backgrounds) > Jaguar CD (animate things faster than the 3DO version) > 3DO (less frame cuts than the PS1) > PS1
- Sprite size: Saturn = PS1 > 3DO > Jaguar CD
- Number of music tracks: Saturn/3DO/Jaguar CD > PS1
- Shadows: 3DO (actually better than the arcade ones) > Saturn/PS1 (Jaguar CD/32X/SNES/Genesis don't have them)
- Framerate: PS1 > Saturn > Jaguar CD >> 3DO
- Colors: Saturn >>> 3DO/Jaguar CD (seem very similar here) and PS1 (better than the previous two in some spots, worse in others)
- Parallax: Saturn > PS1 > 3DO > Jaguar CD
- Number of Bugs/Missing stuff: Jaguar CD > PS1 >> Saturn > 3DO
- During the final battle, skeletons disappear instead of staying when an opponent is defeated in the Saturn version; unlike on the arcade and in the PS1/3DO/Jaguar CD versions.
- 3DO version is the only one to have the animated claws in screen transitions, like the arcade.
- 3DO music soundtrack seems to have been improved compared to the others.
- PS1 lets you finish the game and watch the ending screens in any difficulty level; the other CD versions require at least AI level 10 to allow you to do it.

[sheath]

Wow, great work on Primal Rage Barone. It's too bad that Primal Rage is only available for the Jag CD and not on Cart even in ROM form or I'd record a total 16-64 bit comparison video with MAME. (Checks ebay), Dang I'll have to snipe Primal Rage for PS1 or Saturn to get it for a reasonable price. Man is the Jpn Saturn version expensive!

[Barone]

I really do wonder at times why Sega didn't allow for more Horizontal resolutions like 256 wide and 384 wide if the PS1 did it. While the issue with Street Fighter Alpha wasn't that major of an issue, it was a problem for games like Megaman X3 and Symphony of the Night.

Yeah the resolution thing is really a plus for the PS1.
I think it also helped with a number of enhanced SNES ports the PS1 received, like Makeruna! Makendou 2; I mean, it certainly made the things easier for the developers.
Also, if you count the compilation of old games, like Namco Museum, the PS1 has actually more (not better) games with TATE support than the Saturn, which is mind boggling IMO.
Namco Museum is a great collection on the PS1 and especially 'cause the PS2 releases lack the TATE support (AFAIK, the PS1 versions are actually ports, using a conversion of the original sources while the PS2 ones are just emulation); to play games like Dragon Saber and Valkyrie No Densetsu in TATE is just pure awesomeness. Too bad Namco Museum lacked some major awesome games like Burning Force, Splatterhouse and Rolling Thunder 2. Dangerous Seed would have been a cool alternative to the Mega Drive port, especially in TATE.
And Rolling Thunder 2 would have been really special since the Genesis port couldn't handle all the arcade parallax and animation quality; that game was really beautiful on the arcade.

Gah, I noticed that and I guess I forgot to edit my post correctly. I meant to say that the Saturn and Dreamcast game has the lower resolution and the PS1 version apparently does run at 384 wide.

Yeah, it does run in 384 wide and you'll get the non-cropped artwork as well; only later PS2 (and other) collections would bring the non-cropped artwork back but I think those are the arcade roms emulated and neither of those collections offer the original arcade resolution AFAIK.

Wow, great work on Primal Rage Barone. It's too bad that Primal Rage is only available for the Jag CD and not on Cart even in ROM form or I'd record a total 16-64 bit comparison video with MAME. (Checks ebay), Dang I'll have to snipe Primal Rage for PS1 or Saturn to get it for a reasonable price. Man is the Jpn Saturn version expensive!

Thanks.
Saturn and 3DO versions are pretty solid and the ones to go. The Saturn one plays much better.
I think the EU release of the 3DO game is quite common and sometimes very cheap on ebay; and it works exactly like the NTSC version in a NTSC 3DO AFAIK.
And, really, why they had to use the Jag CD instead of the regular Jag? It doesn't seem the kind of game which would benefit from the CD, quite the opposite.

[Barone]

[sheath]

I've been playing Street Fighter Alpha/Zero 3 on PS1, Saturn and Dreamcast. I was able to use the same Hori Arcade Stick for the Saturn and Dreamcast versions thanks to my Total Control 3 adapter. When I used my Dreamcast Hori Agetec Arcade stick I had trouble doing basic special moves with Ryu for some reason. Similarly when I used my Performance Dual Impact on the PS1 version I couldn't pull off specials with Ryu, so I was forced to resort to the not-a-dpad Sony Dual Shock 2. Once I familiarized myself with the gangsign like finger contortions required to make the Dual Shock work I had no trouble playing the PS1 version either.

In fact, for Graphics, Gameplay and Sound I found very few differences between the three on my SDTV over S-Video through my Dolby Pro-Logic tuner. The PS1 version has some missing background elements, such as the skull and warping in the Ryu Vs Ken level. Though the skull flashes with the lightning and is creepy as hell. The PS1 version also has static characters in the character select screen. Aside from background animation and the character select screen the PS1 version has true transparency for the menu items like the Dreamcast game has, whereas the Saturn game has a dithered mesh for no good reason.

I should be able to slap together a quick comparison video if anybody is interested, but I really think that the differences between the three versions is negligible.

[Zz Badnusty]

When I used my Dreamcast Hori Arcade stick

this is inconsequential to the point of your post, but Hori didn't make any Dreamcast peripherals, afaik