Does anybody else think that the US got the short end of the stick with Sega?

[bultje112]

Didn't Saturn do modestly in Europe? I've seen alot of Euro ads. "The Game Is Never Over" sounds very solid for a marketing plug.

Dreamcast of course was a huge hit in Europe. Remember, DC only flopped in Japan.

It's sad that European Sega fans mostly UK have lost all faith in Sega as a company. Blame it on that shit for brains, Mike Hayes. It makes perfect since why Tsurumi fired him last year. He labeled Sega as a strong software publisher but threw SOA completely under the bus.

the saturn only did reasonable in the uk and southern europe, which is the true sega stronghold through all the times.

[Da_Shocker]

It doesn't exist in a complete released form though. Sonic 3D Blast does. We don't even have any proof that those are real screenshots and not mock ups.

Using your same logic we can make these same silly statements:

Grandia is a Saturn port of a Sega CD game
Shenmue is a Dreamcast port of a Saturn game
Sonic Adventure is a Dreamcast port of a Saturn game
Final Fantasy VII is a Playstation port of an N64 game
Dragon Quest VII is a Playstation port of an N64DD game
Final Fantasy IV is an SNES port of an NES game.

See how silly this starts to get? A game is only a port if there's another version that is actually released and deemed the original version. So Sonic 3D Blast on the Saturn is a port, because the original Genesis version actually exists and was released to the public and is the original version. Albert Odyssey on the Saturn isn't an SNES port because a) we don't know how much of the SNES version was actually finished, b) the SNES version was never released to the public, c) the only version that exists to the public is the Saturn game.

Having development start on one platform and move to another is extremely common in game development and has never before deemed a game a port. If it did then so many games would actually be ports that it wouldn't even be funny.

It got silly because you choose to go that route I had proof, screen shots and you simply ignore them. Then you come up with some silly comparisons of games. Sonic Adventures doesn't look NOTHING like Sonic Jam, Shenmue on the Saturn looks nothing like Shenmue on the DC. There aren't even any screens of Grandia for the SCD.

[TrekkiesUnite118]

And you've still missed the point. I didn't ignore your proof, I simply said we don't know if they are real screenshots or mock-ups, and we don't know how far along the SNES game actually got before being moved up to the Saturn. All you're evidence proves is that development started on the SNES. It doesn't prove that the game was 100% complete and ported to the Saturn with no changes. And again to be a true port the SNES version would need to have actually been released.

The comparisons I made are identical to the issue with Albert Odyssey. You simply want to make a special rule for that game and that game only.

And just so you know, Sonic's Saturn model does show up and get used in the Dreamcast version of Sonic Adventure. There's some definite Saturn Left-overs found in the game. And Saturn Shenmue does look very similar to the Dreamcast version. Yeah the polygon counts much lower and the textures are worse, you can tell it's pretty much the same game from the scripted scenes.

[MrSega]

the saturn only did reasonable in the uk and southern europe, which is the true sega stronghold through all the times.

I knew that Saturn did well in Europe. It only flopped in America.

[TrekkiesUnite118]

I knew that Saturn did well in Europe. It only flopped in America.

Because clearly the UK and Southern Europe = All of Europe.

[gamevet]

I knew that Saturn did well in Europe. It only flopped in America.

It sold about as well in Europe, as it did in North America. The difference is that Stolar cut the cord too soon, while Europe continued to limp on.

[QuickSciFi]

Compared to Japan, the US got the short end of the stick with every console.

[bultje112]

I knew that Saturn did well in Europe. It only flopped in America.

it didn't do well in europe at all. it did moderatly good in uk, better than usa compared yes and it did quite ok in spain, italy and portugal. everywhere else it bombed completely. worse than usa

[gamevet]

it didn't do well in europe at all. it did moderatly good in uk, better than usa compared yes and it did quite ok in spain, italy and portugal. everywhere else it bombed completely. worse than usa

I don't think it did any better in the UK than the US. It sold somewhere between 1.5 to 1.7 million here, while it sold somewhere between 5.1 to 5.5 million in Japan. That only leaves about about 2.5 to 3.2 million units sold for the rest of the world.

[Da_Shocker]

And you've still missed the point. I didn't ignore your proof, I simply said we don't know if they are real screenshots or mock-ups, and we don't know how far along the SNES game actually got before being moved up to the Saturn. All you're evidence proves is that development started on the SNES. It doesn't prove that the game was 100% complete and ported to the Saturn with no changes. And again to be a true port the SNES version would need to have actually been released.

The comparisons I made are identical to the issue with Albert Odyssey. You simply want to make a special rule for that game and that game only.

And just so you know, Sonic's Saturn model does show up and get used in the Dreamcast version of Sonic Adventure. There's some definite Saturn Left-overs found in the game. And Saturn Shenmue does look very similar to the Dreamcast version. Yeah the polygon counts much lower and the textures are worse, you can tell it's pretty much the same game from the scripted scenes.

It doesn't need to released all they had to do was transfer the assets. There were plenty of 16-Bit games that got ported over during the 32-Bit era that got slight graphical upgrades. And AO doesn't even look much better than an SNES game. And nobody ever is going to confuse Sonic Jams graphics with SA nor Shenmue to the Saturn version.

[TrekkiesUnite118]

It doesn't need to released all they had to do was transfer the assets. There were plenty of 16-Bit games that got ported over during the 32-Bit era that got slight graphical upgrades. And AO doesn't even look much better than an SNES game. And nobody ever is going to confuse Sonic Jams graphics with SA nor Shenmue to the Saturn version.

Yes, but the difference with those is that they have original 16-bit versions that actually exist. It's pretty hard for a game to be an SNES port when no SNES version is in existence, regardless of how well the system could pull off it's graphics.

There is a difference between a game changing target platforms midway through development, and an older game being ported to a newer system. You are trying to group two different things into the same category.

[Black_Tiger]

Compared to Japan, the US got the short end of the stick with every console.

Except for consoles like the Genesis, which were much more popular outside Japan and received more games in North America. The Xbox systems likely also fit this scenario.

[NeoZeedeater]

I think the Master System had it better in NA than Japan as well overall. We missed out on FM sound and SG-1000 support but we also got a number of great games Japan didn't. Japan was cut off before Wonder Boy III and they didn't get any of the gun games.

[Black_Tiger]

It doesn't need to released all they had to do was transfer the assets. There were plenty of 16-Bit games that got ported over during the 32-Bit era that got slight graphical upgrades. And AO doesn't even look much better than an SNES game. And nobody ever is going to confuse Sonic Jams graphics with SA nor Shenmue to the Saturn version.

I don't agree with some of Trekkies' rules for what counts as a port, but it doesn't really matter if the game is based on plans that began for SNES. The important thing is that AOG is not just a SNES game with some minor enhancements, unless you have the EGM 2D = SNES mentality. Biased game mags led me to believe that AOG was just another SNES port like Ogre Battle, Tactics Ogre, Chrono Trigger, FF's, etc. I was pleasantly surprised to find that the visuals are total 32-bit quality and are actually above average as far as 32-bit 2D RPGs go.

[Da_Shocker]

I don't agree with some of Trekkies' rules for what counts as a port, but it doesn't really matter if the game is based on plans that began for SNES. The important thing is that AOG is not just a SNES game with some minor enhancements, unless you have the EGM 2D = SNES mentality. Biased game mags led me to believe that AOG was just another SNES port like Ogre Battle, Tactics Ogre, Chrono Trigger, FF's, etc. I was pleasantly surprised to find that the visuals are total 32-bit quality and are actually above average as far as 32-bit 2D RPGs go.

Actually it was Gamefan that first mentioned this not EGM.