N64/PS1/Saturn/DC sales - US NPD

[Team Andromeda]

Why do I have Strikers 1945, Gekioh: Shooting King and Castlevania: Symphony of the Night on my Playstation, if Sony was so anti-2D

That's just being silly . Its like saying because I have Turok on my N64 or MK II on the Snes NCL loved violent games and no issues with them. Because Burning Rangers , HOTD, Panzer Dragoon Saga, Shinning Force 3 Ect came out for America Bernie in fact loved the Saturn and saw it has SEGA's future *rolls eye's*. I remember SONY America saying (before the launch of PS in the West) if it wasn't 3D it wasn't a game and people like Olafur Olafsson 2D simply did'nt show off the system. I mean the very 1st game shown off for the Saturn and the very 1st launch game for the Saturn was a 3D title; yet people say it's a 2D system.

The simple fact was that both Capcom and SNK came out and said SONY America had an anti 2D policy and it was much harder to get the rights to a 2D game to go in America than a 3D one .

[bultje112]

Compared to other modern consoles Dreamcast software sales in the US were quite poor. Pretty much only NFL2k and Sonic Adventure sold over 1 million units. Most other games sold in the tens of thousands.

those are npd figures right? they aren't complete. I think number of chains like funcoland and eb weren't part of npd charts back then. I'm not sure about which chains but just naming ones I think I heard.

still if one thing they proove how much piracy hurt dreamcast software sales. dreamcast was hacked in late summer of 2000. pretty much all games after that except those that were online sold very badly all of a sudden. sonic adventure 2 being the best example as it was already floating the internet as a hacked iso many weeks before it's actual release

[gamevet]

That's just being silly . Its like saying because I have Turok on my N64 or MK II on the Snes NCL loved violent games and no issues with them. Because Burning Rangers , HOTD, Panzer Dragoon Saga, Shinning Force 3 Ect came out for America Bernie in fact loved the Saturn and saw it has SEGA's future *rolls eye's*. I remember SONY America saying (before the launch of PS in the West) if it wasn't 3D it wasn't a game and people like Olafur Olafsson 2D simply did'nt show off the system. I mean the very 1st game shown off for the Saturn and the very 1st launch game for the Saturn was a 3D title; yet people say it's a 2D system.

The simple fact was that both Capcom and SNK came out and said SONY America had an anti 2D policy and it was much harder to get the rights to a 2D game to go in America than a 3D one .

When Nintendo had a no violent games policy, there wasn't any blood and decapitations on their console. After the ratings system was in place that stance changed.

If Sony really had an anti 2D/RPG stance that continued on to the PS2, a lot of those games would not have appeared on their consoles, including their very own Parappa the Rappa.

And if Stolar was rejecting RPGs, he must have been pretty desperate to approve translation of Shining Force III, Panzer Dragoon Saga and Magic Knight Rayearth.

You people are grasping at straws in an attempt to show something that wasn't as bad as it was made out to be.

Strikers 1945 and Gekioh were post-PS2 releases, released after Sony relaxed standards for PS1 releases. They would have been unlikely to release earlier. Castlevania SotN and In the Hunt were some of those rare 2d titles Sony actually allowed to be released on the system during its main life. "We don't like 2d" did not mean "absolutely no 2d games", just a limited number of them.

Well no shit. You were saying this anti-2D stuff continued on with Sony's PS2, even though Sony was allowing something like the budget Gekioh to be released on their console.

[Team Andromeda]

When Nintendo had a no violent games policy, there wasn't any blood and decapitations on their console.

There was some games like golgo 13 on the NES had sex and violence and of course you had the Fist if North Star games on the NES. I do believe they was blood in the Japanse versions of Final Fight had the blood kept in and so .

If Sony really had an anti 2D/RPG stance that continued on to the PS2, a lot of those games would not have appeared on their consoles, including their very own Parappa the Rappa

Sony America had the anti 2D stance - not the case for SONY Japan or Europe and Parappa the Rappa is hardly 2D never mind that when a game is a hit in one country , it always helps its case for it to be translated to another . What next because Bernie brought out the likes of Saga, HOTD for the Saturn he was all for the Saturn and it was SEGA future

And if Stolar was rejecting RPGs, he must have been pretty desperate to approve translation of Shining Force III, Panzer Dragoon Saga and Magic Knight Rayearth

We it's only what the man himself said , but what people say and do are 2 different thinks in a lot of cases. I remember SONY saying BC was a must for consoles and why they included for the PS3 (while making fun of MS) they changed their tune. I remember Peter Moore on record as saying the XBox 360 didn't need HDMI has the 360 VGA cable gave a better picture .

[gamevet]

There was some games like golgo 13 on the NES had sex and violence and of course you had the Fist if North Star games on the NES. I do believe they was blood in the Japanse versions of Final Fight had the blood kept in and so .

Yeah, but did Final Fight in the US have blood? The Violence policy was brought up during the 16-bit era, so I don't know if that was in place suing the NES days.

We're not talking about Japan here either.

Sony America had the anti 2D stance - not the case for SONY Japan or Europe and Parappa the Rappa is hardly 2D never mind that when a game is a hit in one country , it always helps its case for it to be translated to another . What next because Bernie brought out the likes of Saga, HOTD for the Saturn he was all for the Saturn and it was SEGA future

Holy shit your sentence structure is f'ed up!

Japan and Europe were not part of the conversation. It's been proven that Sony of America has allowed many an RPG and 2D game on not only the PS, but the PS2 as well. And yes, Parappa is very much a 2D game.

We it's only what the man himself said , but what people say and do are 2 different thinks in a lot of cases. I remember SONY saying BC was a must for consoles and why they included for the PS3 (while making fun of MS) they changed their tune. I remember Peter Moore on record as saying the XBox 360 didn't need HDMI has the 360 VGA cable gave a better picture .

He let his opinion be known. It doesn't necessarily mean that it was enforced, and the software seems to prove that. Grasping onto old comments as proof isn't really much to go on, other than there was an opinion a person had during an interview or meeting. We all change our minds about things, so why can't they?

[MrSega]

those are npd figures right? they aren't complete. I think number of chains like funcoland and eb weren't part of npd charts back then. I'm not sure about which chains but just naming ones I think I heard.

still if one thing they proove how much piracy hurt dreamcast software sales. dreamcast was hacked in late summer of 2000. pretty much all games after that except those that were online sold very badly all of a sudden. sonic adventure 2 being the best example as it was already floating the internet as a hacked iso many weeks before it's actual release

From what I recall, GameStop and EB Games when they were FuncoLand and Electronic Boutique didn't count NPD data. Neither did GameCrazy. All console manufacturers released their own shipment and sales data.

[Da_Shocker]

@gamevet I guess showing off the numerous 2D games that the PSx doesn't mean jack shit lol.

[Vector2013]

Or Babbages.

[MrSega]

@gamevet I guess showing off the numerous 2D games that the PSx doesn't mean jack shit lol.

Most of them were shoddy and sloppy anyway.

[Da_Shocker]

Most of them were shoddy and sloppy anyway.

Can you be a bit more specific please?

[gamevet]

MrSega would never own a Playstation; that's like his kryptonite.

[Team Andromeda]

Yeah, but did Final Fight in the US have blood? The Violence policy was brought up during the 16-bit era, so I don't know if that was in place suing the NES days

Final Fight came out on both the Snes and Mega CD 16 bit era and NCL had no trouble with the Blood .Nintendo America did , but then so did SEGA America has the blood was cut out of the Sega CD version.

Japan and Europe were not part of the conversation.

Sony Japan would always need to be included as their are the paymasters and control much of what goes on . Also SONY America did have a anti 2D policy , but that's not say not a single 2D game wouldn't get through from time to time ; more so if that game made serious sales in other countries. MS LIVE is meant to be a closed system, but tell that to EA who were allowed to run their own servers, there's always exceptions

Parappa is very much a 2D game

The graphics are 3D and fully polygons - stuff which shows off the PS and thats overlooking how it was a smash in Japan and so that always helps .. SONY America weren't anti 2D gameplay, but more so graphics and thought 3D showed off the system better

He let his opinion be known. It doesn't necessarily mean that it was enforced

It was and that's why SNK and Capcom complained and I bet SONY Japan had something to say on the issues

[MrSega]

Can you be a bit more specific please?

Mega Man 8. Lower resolution,mono sound,slower loading times, drab color palettes, and missing Easter eggs found in Saturn version.

Street Fighter Collection. Ugly,slowdown,missing sprites from Saturn version. Impossible to play on PSX controller.

Marvel Super Heroes. Slower and much more sluggish than the Saturn.

KOF '96. Supbar,linear.

X-MEN VS Street Figther. WORST arcade port ever. Horribly slow framerate, horrendous slowdown, poor loading times,unbalanced controls,missing animation and worst of all, the Tag-Team feature is GONE. Saturn is Arcade perfect.

Marvel VS. Capcom. Worthless. Dreamcast version was/is easy to find.

Street Fighter Alpha 3. Considering that there's both a collectible Saturn version and a excellent,smooth fun-to-play Dreamcast version, its pathetic.

Again, PS1 2D Arcade ports sucked.

@Gamevet. Actually, my brother and I owned one until 2001. Megaman X5 was the last PS1 game I ever played.

[A Black Falcon]

When Nintendo had a no violent games policy, there wasn't any blood and decapitations on their console. After the ratings system was in place that stance changed.

Just as a note, Nintendo of America's violence policy was enacted early in the NES generation. Golgo 13 released before they enacted it, so it infamously had its sex scene left in, but later on they'd enacted it, so games such as Maniac Mansion had to be censored. And yes, they dropped it in 1994, thanks to the ratings system. They did make an exception for Mortal Kombat 2, though; it released in 1994, but before the ratings were ready (they started that November or December), but Nintendo didn't want another "SNES MK1 has no blood" debacle, so they let Acclaim ship it uncensored, with a "18+" warning on the box.

If Sony really had an anti 2D/RPG stance that continued on to the PS2, a lot of those games would not have appeared on their consoles, including their very own Parappa the Rappa.

I don't know why you're forcing me to repeat myself, but once again, Sony's anti-2d and anti-RPG policies were not total bans. They were "not many of these kinds of games allowed" restrictions. I've said this multiple times now.

And if Stolar was rejecting RPGs, he must have been pretty desperate to approve translation of Shining Force III, Panzer Dragoon Saga and Magic Knight Rayearth.

MKR had been approved before he came to Sega, hadn't it? And as for those other two, I'd guess that that's either because Sega of Japan required him to release those games (they were in charge after all), or he decided to release them out of a lack of any other decent options. Also Shining Force was a known, popular series, so releasing that wasn't too unexpected. And Panzer Dragoon Saga may have had a genre shift, but the first two games had been popular here.

You people are grasping at straws in an attempt to show something that wasn't as bad as it was made out to be.

I have no idea why you're trying to deny that Sony had anti-2d and anti-RPG policies, but the fact that they have has been so thoroughly documented, and we've mentioned some sources and examples too. Have you looked in to any of them? I mean, you seem to be ignoring the ones that have been provided so far (SNK, for example, and Capcom), so I don't know if mentioning more would have much of a point.

Well no shit. You were saying this anti-2D stuff continued on with Sony's PS2, even though Sony was allowing something like the budget Gekioh to be released on their console.

It continued on with the PS2 for PS2 games. They reduced the restrictions on their old console after the next one had released. I've explained this before too. I assumed that you knew this, this was common knowledge back then, that that's why all of those 2d games started showing up in the early '00s. Sony drops restrictions and reduces licensing fees late in console generations. They've done it with the PS1, PS2, and PSP. (For some evidence for that last one -- see Vic Ireland's latest PSP game, School of Heroes 2. I believe he's said how it was easier to do now than it would have been earlier. For the PS1, see games like Strikers 1945. And for the PS2, King of Fighters XI is a good one.)

[A Black Falcon]

Compared to other modern consoles Dreamcast software sales in the US were quite poor. Pretty much only NFL2k and Sonic Adventure sold over 1 million units. Most other games sold in the tens of thousands.

Yeah, DC sales weren't that great. Look at this for example... not many DC games show up, for sure. http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost...postcount=1192